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***TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR vs West Ham United OMT***

Lilbaz said:
Klopp finished 8th his first season didn't he? Arteta took a few years (fa cup aside) to get going.

We can see the way we want to play and to an extent are doing that. Maddison and vdv are big misses. Because the manager hasn't got his squad yet.
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Klopp apparently begged FSG to keep his job. Whilst we (myself included) ridiculed Arteta he told anyone that would listen he was a man to change the culture at Arsenal. I feel at times (in general not based on this thread) that we spend so much time looking over the fence at clubs and wanting to be them or feel we have a right to but ignore how they got there. I keep droning on about it but for us to be anywhere near those club we need to do something we haven't done in 30+ years and actually build our own culture and identity. That's not taking 15 games

For better or worse we have to back one of these guys to be that person and for me Ange wants to be that guy, that's more than we have had for a long time
 
thfcsteff said:
But I think if you're honest, you'll recognise exactly what is being generally said by some of us. We are creating that chances to have loads of chances, what is lacking is an ounce of belief and conviction to take that shot or slide that final ball. I think some players tonight also need an extra insurance touch, and will also naturally look laterally or back rather than play the 'risk' game. Since VdV has been hurt, that has increased as the players know their 'cheat mode' leaves them a bit more exposed if a risk taken goes wrong. I sense Ange wants that changed ASAP.
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I’m not sure it was belief or conviction tonight, I think it was more decision making and quality. Sometimes we tried to force a first time ball when it wasn’t on, other times we held the ball when a first time ball was on, other times our players put in a bad ball or took a poor shot. The general level of our performance up to the final third was good I thought (especially in the first half). I am enjoying watching us play at present and that was all I really hoped for this season.
 
90291Spur said:
It might be because Ange cares about winning. His method of winning means good football is being played, but as a man drive to win, entertaining football is not enough.
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And that's a great culture to build in the team. But the media team is for us...we can surely enjoy the improvements in the quality of football this season?
 
DeanoAustin said:
Xg means dingdong all to be honest. If you went by Xg, City should have beat us by 2 on Sunday but, personally, I thought we were good value for a draw and were the better side second half. Likewise, I thought we got what we deserved tonight because we didn’t show enough quality when we needed to.

When West Ham cut off the space second half, we had no answer. We were slow and narrow and played into their hands.

If Ange attributes our loss to bad finishing or bad luck, we’ll be beaten again by Saudi Sportswashing Machine this weekend. There’s a consistent pattern, like there was with Conte last year. He needs to think about how to solve that.
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The pattern is great football aesthetically
Coupled with tinkle poor shooting
It’s not finishing… it’s the shooting and a lack of it most of the time
We pass and pass and pass when delaying the passing could create room
And some of the shots tonight were weak as anything. Pea rollers straight at them
The players need to work on that massively
 
Finney Is Back said:
I’m not sure it was belief or conviction tonight, I think it was more decision making and quality. Sometimes we tried to force a first time ball when it wasn’t on, other times we held the ball when a first time ball was on, other times our players put in a bad ball or took a poor shot. The general level of our performance up to the final third was good I thought (especially in the first half). I am enjoying watching us play at present and that was all I really hoped for this season.
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I generally agree, the decision making was absolutely lacking, but a lot of that comes (for me anyway) from the psychology of the player. Take Johnson. He has the tools, he really does, but he looks like he doesn't quite believe he should be there right now (it's a bit 'Sessy' maybe?).

Like you, I am enjoying what we're looking to do and (sometimes) are doing. Stick with it and back Ange and we'll be a powerhouse next season.
 
SpurMeUp said:
It is too much for Son. He can't carry the attacking side by himself. He is closing down the keeper sprinting vs City, tonight and more or less every game this season. Normally, Postecoglou would rotate him and keep him fresher. But Richi has been out, Madison out, Johson out and lacking confidence.

It is not a system that makes us blunt, it is injuries and Richi and Johnson lacking form.
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Son needs space
It’s when he is excellent
Especially as he is two footed
Against bus Parker’s he offers so little because they sit deep and take his space
 
thfcsteff said:
I generally agree, the decision making was absolutely lacking, but a lot of that comes (for me anyway) from the psychology of the player. Take Johnson. He has the tools, he really does, but he looks like he doesn't quite believe he should be there right now (it's a bit 'Sessy' maybe?).

Like you, I am enjoying what we're looking to do and (sometimes) are doing. Stick with it and back Ange and we'll be a powerhouse next season.
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We will be
But we really have a chance to take a big step this season
Ange is pushing the team now
He needs them to start delivering for him
 
thfcsteff said:
I generally agree, the decision making was absolutely lacking, but a lot of that comes (for me anyway) from the psychology of the player. Take Johnson. He has the tools, he really does, but he looks like he doesn't quite believe he should be there right now (it's a bit 'Sessy' maybe?).

Like you, I am enjoying what we're looking to do and (sometimes) are doing. Stick with it and back Ange and we'll be a powerhouse next season.
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The comparison to Sess is a good one, at the moment anyway.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
The pattern is great football aesthetically
Coupled with tinkle poor shooting
It’s not finishing… it’s the shooting and a lack of it most of the time
We pass and pass and pass when delaying the passing could create room
And some of the shots tonight were weak as anything. Pea rollers straight at them
The players need to work on that massively
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Yes, look at liverpool's long range shooting v fool em! As i said, everyone needs drills with a 100 shooting practice each, i mean seriously
 
Bishop said:
Their first one was not a gift. They took a shot and it rebounded into their players path, that's not a gift that's a product of their own attack. The second was indeed a gift.

Again though given how much possession we had 1.78 xG, taking into account the Richarlison chance is not the stat of a team creating a number of quality chances. We just didn't imo. Watch that match again in highlights and you'll struggle to much real penalty box action from us or a keeper needing to make saves or even dive.

It's the opposite of the Aston Villa match. In that one we genuinely battered them and should have scored many, it could have been 4 and that wouldn't have flattered us. Today for me, nah I just don't agree. The "chances" we had other than the Richarlison one are just the tpe of chances you see in a match and they usually don't hit the back of net. They all very speculative, you need a great deal of luck for them to go in, somewhat like West Ham's first. Whilst I don't consider it a gift, I don't think it was some great chance.
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In a game where the opposition are camped behind the ball in a low block, 1.8 xg isn't terrible at all. Because chances will be hard to come by. If we didn't give away a goal and scored our XG, which is closest to 2 goals, we win.

Of course we need to be better. But using XG in its limited way shows we created enough to get the win if we don't gift 2.
 
I was disappointed that we didn't make more of our chances and dominance in the first half - we barely tested Fabianski. But I was really expecting us to roar out of the traps at the start of the second half after Ange had put a rocket up everyone at half time - and that we didn't (and they did) was the biggest disappointment for me. I was really hoping tonight was the game where we put the opposition to the sword, and given who we were playing, it's even harder to take (for me) that we didn't do that . West Ham's game plan was always going to involve sitting deep and compact and I thought we would have more guile about us to work out how to deal with them, but we didn't. Johnson needs to find some leather behind his shots, or better decision making to lay the ball off to someone else. Son wasn't there today. Kulu had his moments but far too frustrating.
We were often slow and ponderous and trying to be too intricate when what we needed was faster movement and more shots from distance as we couldn't walk the ball in.
Yet if I can leave aside who the opposition were, I can overcome my despondency and still take positives from the way we are playing. I know we are early stages in our rebuild, the football is (usually) entertaining and fun and I am excited about the future with Ange. But tonight feels like a lost opportunity.

As I was walking through the train carriages on the way home a West Ham fan, obviously seeing my hat/scarf beckoned me over and told me, sotto voce, that 'West Ham are massive'. I summoned up my most patronising smile, patted him on the arm and said 'enjoy your moment mate, it obviously means an awful lot to you", and carried on my way. For some reason, that made me feel just a little bit better.
 
Didn’t see the game, but fudge me that’s a shocker of a result to come out of the Christmas party to.

We need to learn how to keep a clean sheet smartish, that’s what wins you football matches.
 
AjaxDeSuperYids said:
Is that the first side we have come up against under Ange that properly park the bus?

Would be interested to know if we have properly prepared and trained yet for facing such a tactic as we looked totally clueless in the final third. I cannot believe the tactic was to cut in at every opportunity and try and go through the middle yet that is what we did time and again.

Very strange because normally we are in part all about going wide and crossing and that should be even more the case against a low block.

The few times we did it with Porro for example we nearly scored or forced an error on west ham’s part.

A really weird performance from us.
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The second half reminded me of the last 20-30 minutes against Liverpool.
We were huffing and puffing and never looked like scoring against 10/11 men in a low block.
Saying that , you are allowed to win 1-0 sometimes , all the other top sies grind out dull 1-0 wins then talking about not being clinical enough would just be secondary chat after stuff like : we defended well , saw the game out comfortably, result was never in doubt , we got the job done and onto the next one etc etc
 
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