***TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR vs Arsenal OMT***

[Mr Gogolak]

If var is only supposed to be for blatant mistakes it didn't work yesterday, few people think that's a penalty decision worth over turning and almost all think it should have been red card. It should be involved or not, this only if scenario is nothing but a cop out and refs protecting their arse.
Evidence would suggest that football fans do more than refs, the standard of reffing is appalling, some of these decisions are barely acceptable with the naked eye, with the technology involved it's scandalous.
What if nketia had scored the winning goal yesterday?

Apparently, he asked for a check on the penalty - although I'm not 100% sure. That's a different scenario. I disagree with the idea that football fans would know more than the average ref. There were very few Spurs fans where I grew up and throughout the 90s, I've had to watch games in pubs with a bunch of opposition fans (mostly ManU, Arsenal and Saudi Sportswashing Machine, at the time) and I can't remember how many times I've heard them shout 'Legal! Legal!' when Keane was snapping someone's ankle.

The guy on the pitch as more experience than any of us will ever have. Introducing the technology was a very poor idea, though, mostly because it raised people's expectations when, in truth, most of the time it comes down to the ref's interpretation of events. I have a friend who work as a director on rugby matches in France and we used to laugh at the number of times the 'video referee' would look at the pictures for 5 minutes, scratching his head, before asking my friend: 'Well, what do you think about it?'

That's the nature of the beast: fans will never agree with the decisions made on pitch. Look at Sheffield's manager last week - we all thought he was a muppet but he was genuinely unhappy about the refereeing.

 

[Raziel]

Quite frankly, I felt Jorginho was a major downgrade on Rice, if only because it seemed like he had a tough time getting into the rythm of the game. Let's be fair: they had a game mid-week and it was always likely they couldn't maintain that intensity throughout the 90 minutes. A very interesting debate, although it takes us away from the game itself: what does 'dominating the game' mean? To some people, it's having a better xG, to others it means confiscating the ball. At the end of the day, it's very subjective. It probably depends on your expectations or loyalties.

Not sure having a top striker a la Lewandowski for instance would massively change their fortunes or, at least, not as much as they think. A team is an act of balance and theirs doesn't look like it's set up to support a player like that but, then again, I don't watch them often enough to claim any expertise on that matter. It's just that too many people think 'good striker = goals coming out of nowhere'. If that were the case, Rebrov would have been one of the Premier League's top strikers.

On a side note, if you want to look at poor spending, so far, Chelsea seem to be setting a new standard.

Agree re Chelsea, Arsenal however is built on City/Chelsea rejects and Arteta is creating a B version of Pep's squad pre Haaland, no real striker.

I disagree with your earlier assessment, they were slightly better in 1st half but not as much as everyone thinks, the fact is they couldn't get the ball off us and retain it.

To me the game was them better in start (as happens when most teams start with a rush), we got better, up to when Son went off, we were better. We had to take off Son and Maddison for fitness/knock reasons, that allowed the Scum to come back into the game but we played with them in front of us and the shots (or lack of) from them post the penalty tells the story.

At home, "title challengers", an OG, a soft penalty, got away with not getting a red card, they conceded possession, to me, we need to improve but to say we were really 2nd best is a stretch

 

[DeanoAustin]

Last week, I heard a few people say "We'd have lost that under Conte" and I disagreed. I think Conte would have beaten Sheffield United - probably a boring 1-0 or 2-0 win with no fuss or entertainment.

I think under Conte, particularly last season's incarnation, we'd have lost yesterday and lost meekly. It's great to see us playing with some swagger even if the passing around our box gives me heart failure at times.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Quite frankly, I felt Jorginho was a major downgrade on Rice, if only because it seemed like he had a tough time getting into the rythm of the game. Let's be fair: they had a game mid-week and it was always likely they couldn't maintain that intensity throughout the 90 minutes. A very interesting debate, although it takes us away from the game itself: what does 'dominating the game' mean? To some people, it's having a better xG, to others it means confiscating the ball. At the end of the day, it's very subjective. It probably depends on your expectations or loyalties.

Not sure having a top striker a la Lewandowski for instance would massively change their fortunes or, at least, not as much as they think. A team is an act of balance and theirs doesn't look like it's set up to support a player like that but, then again, I don't watch them often enough to claim any expertise on that matter. It's just that too many people think 'good striker = goals coming out of nowhere'. If that were the case, Rebrov would have been one of the Premier League's top strikers.

On a side note, if you want to look at poor spending, so far, Chelsea seem to be setting a new standard.

I don’t honk arsenal have spent poorly
Chelsea have for sure
But I don’t think Arsenal have brought the key piece they needed. I wouldn’t know who they could and should buy TBf. I do stand by what’s I’ve said before that Jesus isn’t a good enough goal scorer.

on the subject of dominating a game. To me it’s about who is the team most comfortable playing their way. The way they wanna play. They started like they always do. Once we settled… we were dictating the attacking with having more possession. That was with rice on.
Rice is class but not that big an upgrade on the rapist to justify the investment IMO
Viera is a bit meh. Odd signing for what they paid

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Agree re Chelsea, Arsenal however is built on City/Chelsea rejects and Arteta is creating a B version of Pep's squad pre Haaland, no real striker.

I disagree with your earlier assessment, they were slightly better in 1st half but not as much as everyone thinks, the fact is they couldn't get the ball off us and retain it.

To me the game was them better in start (as happens when most teams start with a rush), we got better, up to when Son went off, we were better. We had to take off Son and Maddison for fitness/knock reasons, that allowed the Scum to come back into the game but we played with them in front of us and the shots (or lack of) from them post the penalty tells the story.

At home, "title challengers", an OG, a soft penalty, got away with not getting a red card, they conceded possession, to me, we need to improve but to say we were really 2nd best is a stretch

I don’t think Mr G meant we were second best, but I’ll let him respond
But I agree with everything else you say for sure
Every derby has one team that starts full pelt. Everyone, not just the NLD.
no teams ever keep it up though because it’s not their natural game
My mate was saying 15 minutes in we need to get Destiny off. I was saying why, he will be fine and own saka in the end. He didn’t quite own him but he was fine because he settled as their energy dropped
Bissouma was pressed hard for the first 25 mins. After that he controlled the game. Nothing to do with their abilities but everything to do with his

 

[tommysvr]

What if nketia had scored the winning goal yesterday?

We’ve been there before

 

[DeanoAustin]

We’ve been there before

View attachment 16078

On the Nketiah one, I watched it and thought, that's borderline red. I sort of went with it.

Then on MOTD 2, they read out the rule:

SERIOUS FOUL PLAY

A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.

Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play.

Nketiah was late, he was out of control and it was a reckless lunge. He should have been off.

 

[tommysvr]

On the Nketiah one, I watched it and thought, that's borderline red. I sort of went with it.

Then on MOTD 2, they read out the rule:



Nketiah was late, he was out of control and it was a reckless lunge. He should have been off.

100%, it was a disgraceful tackle. In my view, even worse because it’s on a defenceless goalkeeper (though I understand that doesn’t make sense as a rule.)

Then you compare it with what Emerson Royal got sent off for last season…crazy.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

But… there young and travelling is harder with kids

I bet they're all kicking the seats in front of them the whole journey and going to the toilet.

 

[glasgowspur]

Apparently, he asked for a check on the penalty - although I'm not 100% sure. That's a different scenario. I disagree with the idea that football fans would know more than the average ref. There were very few Spurs fans where I grew up and throughout the 90s, I've had to watch games in pubs with a bunch of opposition fans (mostly ManU, Arsenal and Saudi Sportswashing Machine, at the time) and I can't remember how many times I've heard them shout 'Legal! Legal!' when Keane was snapping someone's ankle.

The guy on the pitch as more experience than any of us will ever have. Introducing the technology was a very poor idea, though, mostly because it raised people's expectations when, in truth, most of the time it comes down to the ref's interpretation of events. I have a friend who work as a director on rugby matches in France and we used to laugh at the number of times the 'video referee' would look at the pictures for 5 minutes, scratching his head, before asking my friend: 'Well, what do you think about it?'

That's the nature of the beast: fans will never agree with the decisions made on pitch. Look at Sheffield's manager last week - we all thought he was a muppet but he was genuinely unhappy about the refereeing.

Years ago you're probably right, now I can't see an argument for it at all.
VAR, constant rule changes and vague wording have turned ref standards to muck.
Until the officials in each match need to explain their decisions match right after the game we will get nowhere. Trotting out the head two days later with lame excuses is nothing but a cop out.
The fact that the ref, the lino (who should have been right on top of that situation) and a var team can't say that is a red is disgrace in itself, put in context of other sending offs on the same day is nothing short of incompetence of the highest order.
BTW, The VAR official who sent off the Chelsea player, is he the same one that says the arsenal wasn't a red?
If so he needs sacked, not demoted but sacked.

 

[Spur of the moment]

On the Nketiah one, I watched it and thought, that's borderline red. I sort of went with it.

Then on MOTD 2, they read out the rule:



Nketiah was late, he was out of control and it was a reckless lunge. He should have been off.

You are forgetting it was at the Emirates where different rules apply. Eg it's only a sending off if the offence is committed by the away side, especially so if it's the NLD.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

100%, it was a disgraceful tackle. In my view, even worse because it’s on a defenceless goalkeeper (though I understand that doesn’t make sense as a rule.)

Then you compare it with what Emerson Royal got sent off for last season…crazy.

It’s a cowards tackle
He made no attempt to get to the ball
Because the ball had long gone
Any “better” contact and it’s a proper leg breaker

 

[SpurMeUp]

A draw is seen as a good result for us, not for them. Yes we were away from home, fair enough. But missing Martinelle, Party and Trossard - for me three of their best, especially the first two. Plus Rice second half. Was it a missed opportunity to win? What is really clear is that both sides don't have a squad anything as strong as City. Players like Havertz or Richarlison would not be near Citys squad. I am amazed the goons took a punt on Havertz he's always looked average. I prefer Richie.

I don't think we made the most of Solomon - didn't get him the ball. And only really Hojbjerg stepped up at the end. The only sub who came on and made a difference/took responsibility. I thought Skipp might have too, if brought on.

Early days for manager and a lot of the team. All things considered, it was a decent point.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

A draw is seen as a good result for us, not for them. Yes we were away from home, fair enough. But missing Martinelle, Party and Trossard - for me three of their best, especially the first two. Plus Rice second half. Was it a missed opportunity to win? What is really clear is that both sides don't have a squad anything as strong as City. Players like Havertz or Richarlison would not be near Citys squad. I am amazed the goons took a punt on Havertz he's always looked average. I prefer Richie.

I don't think we made the most of Solomon - didn't get him the ball. And only really Hojbjerg stepped up at the end. The only sub who came on and made a difference/took responsibility. I thought Skipp might have too, if brought on.

Early days for manager and a lot of the team. All things considered, it was a decent point.

Have you seen city’s bench?
They have injuries and it shows
Haivertz is a good player who made the wrong move and it’s stunted his game
I do agree Richarlison wouldn’t get in city’s squad but that’s because of the way he plays
But both are better than some that city had in the bench
The difference is that city will spend more again and again so it’s not a real comparison
I looked at Pools bench and it’s not that great either
The test of a team or squad is working Christmas after a few injuries kick in

 

[tommysvr]

A draw is seen as a good result for us, not for them. Yes we were away from home, fair enough. But missing Martinelle, Party and Trossard - for me three of their best, especially the first two. Plus Rice second half. Was it a missed opportunity to win? What is really clear is that both sides don't have a squad anything as strong as City. Players like Havertz or Richarlison would not be near Citys squad. I am amazed the goons took a punt on Havertz he's always looked average. I prefer Richie.

I don't think we made the most of Solomon - didn't get him the ball. And only really Hojbjerg stepped up at the end. The only sub who came on and made a difference/took responsibility. I thought Skipp might have too, if brought on.

Early days for manager and a lot of the team. All things considered, it was a decent point.

If we were 12, even 6, months later in our process then I’d have been disappointed with the draw. But as it stands, 6 games in with a new manager, completely different style and no Harry Kane, a draw away to the team that finished 2nd last season is a very good result in my opinion.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Have you seen city’s bench?
They have injuries and it shows
Haivertz is a good player who made the wrong move and it’s stunted his game
I do agree Richarlison wouldn’t get in city’s squad but that’s because of the way he plays
But both are better than some that city had in the bench
The difference is that city will spend more again and again so it’s not a real comparison
I looked at Pools bench and it’s not that great either
The test of a team or squad is working Christmas after a few injuries kick in

• 4Phillips
• 6Aké
• 10Grealish
• 18Ortega
• 21Gómez
• 33Carson
• 52Bobb
• 82Lewis

Obviously Grealish is a 100m player. And if that is their bench when hit with injuries it only emphasises the point that they have the most money and the best squad. Don't know who Bobb is

Haivertz might have been a good player but he's looked average for chelsea and the goons. Maybe he can reignite his career, but doesn't seem worth the money at the moment. Richarlison too if we are honest. At least Richie grafts and puts himself about. Haivertz should do the same, huge tall guy. But he's weak, and his head is not right most of the time it seems. Similar for Richie tbh.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

It’s a cowards tackle
He made no attempt to get to the ball
Because the ball had long gone
Any “better” contact and it’s a proper leg breaker

Then we would have the old pro pundit playing their favourite cards "it's a forwards tackle" or "it's totally out of character, he's a nice (very) young man". All the years I played no ref every game me a goal as I hit the ball 20 yards from the goal as it was a defenders shot, why do forwards get away with it all the time.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

• 4Phillips
• 6Aké
• 10Grealish
• 18Ortega
• 21Gómez
• 33Carson
• 52Bobb
• 82Lewis

Obviously Grealish is a 100m player. And if that is their bench when hit with injuries it only emphasises the point that they have the most money and the best squad. Don't know who Bobb is

Haivertz might have been a good player but he's looked average for chelsea and the goons. Maybe he can reignite his career, but doesn't seem worth the money at the moment. Richarlison too if we are honest. At least Richie grafts and puts himself about. Haivertz should do the same, huge tall guy. But he's weak, and his head is not right most of the time it seems. Similar for Richie tbh.

One game changing sub
After spending £1.3B
Most teams don’t have depth because top players want starts

 

[We are Tottenham]

It looked like we had a paltry amount of our fans there,
has our allocation been cut?

 

[Pirate55]

Agree the punishment seems disproportionately harsh, but once its inside the box the sanction simply HAS to be draconian enough to be an effective deterrent. Otherwise defenders would be trying it on all the time, just like they do now with the tactical foul, whereby they cheerfully concede the fk and accept the booking because it ends up giving them the advantage.

A few decades back Jimmy Hill came up with much the same idea as yours with his suggestion of the 'second degree penalty' for lesser infringements in the box, but after tortuous experiments he ended up reluctantly conceding it just would not work. It was amazing how few goals were scored just by moving the penalty spot back to the 18-yard line.

I still feel we ought to differentiate between a deliberate handball ( everyone used to know what that meant) and an innocuous one . A penalty is just too harsh for unintended hand ball.
Exhibit A Sissoko in the CL final.