Bedfordspurs
Joe Kinnear
It’s because he has always tried to be respectful
Some mangers have class
Others have arrogance
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*** Tottenham Hotspur v Nottingham Forest ***
- Thread starter markysimmo
- Start date
Some mangers have class
Others have arrogance
fernadez
Justin Edinburgh
This is what I was referrring to when I spoke about entitlement. How any fans of a team in 16th can bemoan the playing style of a team in 3rd is foreign to me.
The defended well, broke well, scored 3 goals in 25 mins and then just chilled out. Where is it written they had to continue pilling forward after they had their 4 touches and 2 goals in our box. Their the away team hunting Champion's League. The likelihood is that if we had scored earlier they would have attacked more and scored again. Let's not forget they took off one of thier main attacking threats at half time as well.
Muttley
Gudni Bergsson
But do we?
We know the obvious things like the injury crisis, fatigue and perhaps the size and experience of the squad. They are the very "clear and obvious" to quote a very popular football phrase.
Does someone at the club see the more subtle stuff though? Second goal, holding a line in completely the wrong place. Some players like Romero stepping up. Others like VDV and Spence holding the line, but none of them marking. Honestly, what I'm seeing with my own eyes isn't just player errors. That's just another Ange narrative to mask what is really happening. What I'm seeing is a real lack of defensive coaching.
This time last year the big conversation was about specialist coaches. What Munn should be looking at next is whether our analyst team is working well enough or is it the case that they actually are but are coaches aren't capable of implementing effective defensive systems to stop the type of goals we see week in, week out. If not, Ange needs to admit that his defensive system and coaches just aren't up to the Premier League environment. This is why Munn will eventually have an easy decision to make.
Strangely, I'm still very optimistic about our overall direction of travel. The things I talk about aren't rocket science to most management setups but they unfortunately seem to be to Ange and his coaches. It is the one area that, if resolved, would achieve the biggest outcome at our club. We need to lose the obsession with offside and get back to proper defending again.
Muttley
Gudni Bergsson
Playing against Spurs is like playing against an erratic fast bowler at cricket. You know most of the game will be tough but every over that bad ball will come and you can smash it for four. You just need to defend well yourself and you'll get your ton and win the game.
Finney Is Back
Colin Calderwood
Yet called out as rubbish by a whole bunch of folk on here when we were linked with taking him from Forest.
Finney Is Back
Colin Calderwood
Criminal that he wasn't a Spurs player. Absolutely incredible to watch.
Finney Is Back
Colin Calderwood
Fingers crossed Paratici will be back in place soon and, if so, I expect he will relieve Munn of his duties. Munn can then go and get a job in whatever football backwater suits his level.
Even if Paratici doesn't return I expect Vinai Venkatesham will jettison Munn and replace him with somebody better.
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K.D.D.D.D.Soc
Steffen Freund
I agree with your thoughts, we must remember to most he was a mug out of his depth and never good enough for Tottenham.
Sandman
Jermaine Jenas
He is doing well at Forest. That does not mean we was wrong to get rid of him.
For me he was a panic hire. he played ultra defensive setups and well as long as it was working I suppose we was ok with it. But After Mourinhio we got NES and the results took a turn. We was all happy to get Conte at the time.
I still dont think he was the right hire for the club. Forest seem happy enough with playing that system and they are on a roll. I dont think they can sustain it into next season at all. But I wish NES and them the best. Always had a soft spot for Forest for some reason. I think its bacause I always liked going to the City ground.
glorygloryeze
Steffen Freund
Can't fault the effort, as ever it's the lack of nous that is almost always our undoing
#sameoldsameold
#sameoldsameold
SteveAWOL
Jimmy Cantrell
Reminds me of Brenton Rodgers back in his Liverpool days complaining about how unfair it was when they didn’t win after dominating possession plus having more shots, guess that’s all you need to do in order to win the treble with Celtic though.
If you have two boxers in a ring. One is rushing forward. Flailing wildly. The other dodges and weaves, blocks the punches thrown. Then counters knocking out the other fighter.
There is no argument who is the better fighter.
We've been flailing all season. The other teams just knock us out.
There is no argument who is the better fighter.
We've been flailing all season. The other teams just knock us out.
lurker of old
Sebastien Bassong
Fingers crossed Paratici will be back in place soon and, if so, I expect he will relieve Munn of his duties
Do they do the same job? I see Paratici as a super scout with Board level connections. Munn is essentially a very senior manager with several departments to manage, including scouting, Game Analysis, Medical, hiring and "managing" the chief coach for both men's and women's teams etc etc
Do they do the same job? I see Paratici as a super scout with Board level connections. Munn is essentially a very senior manager with several departments to manage, including scouting, Game Analysis, Medical, hiring and "managing" the chief coach for both men's and women's teams etc etc
Campos, marotta or monchi for me. Or the liverpool one who left.
The problem is Ange's system is incomplete
- Creating overloads and position fluidity is not a new/unknown tactic and some very good managers use it
The question becomes
- What other tactic do you have offensively, e.g. overloads often create congestion in certain parts of the pitch, does that then give you space somewhere else? how do you switch the play to use that?
- Players being out of positions creates space for your opposition, or problems for you, how do you cover/counter that? e.g. a DM that steps back, only one FB going forward at a time, midfielder stepping to left or right to cover behind the FB?
Right now it feels like entire team bum rush opposition, and have the fastest CB in the world to run backward to cover the simple one pass counters the system creates, not what I'd consider a tactic.
It depends on what the plan was. We were in a very toxic period at the club, the squad still was in the pending refresh stage and we probably needed a couple of years to reset before being able to challenge again. It that scenario
- Bringing a manager that was first and foremost a decent human being, could represent the club well, not be a clam.
- Brining a manager that showed he could take Wolves to European challenging spots two years in a row (all we need was Spurs to be 1 or 2 spots better)
- Brining in a manager that tactically wasn't a 100% direction change from prior.
The logic of the hire was clear, problem is, media, fans, potentially some players decided he was a failure before he started. All the judging criteria of him proved to be correct FWIW.
Muttley
Gudni Bergsson
What you say could be true, but it can surely only be you working on instinct. Unlike Ange where the proof is demonstrable across almost 100 games of football on live TV and twice as many interviews, we don't really know whether Munn is great or not. Based on the point I picked on above, I have a feeling the club analysts are more than competent and Munn is managing them well under his leadership. Problem is, Ange is not listening to his analysts and is doing things is own way. That high offside line is taking players way out of their comfort zone and is totally fallible. I've been watching it so closely for so long now. It is either marginally offside or we are in absolute trouble as they are onside and we're not marking. Those analysts probably know it and don't believe in the system.
Personally, I quite like offside but you have to pick and choose when you do and when you don't use it. I see our players relying on it when they should be picking up players and using their natural instincts. They use it in the 18 yard box and even try to step out when a cross is coming in. It is high risk stuff that needs removing from our setup. They need to get back to basics and mark players and get goal side. That's what every other PL team does.
Where I trust Paratici is that he would see this with his own eyes. He is a football man through and through and would be helping Ange to recalibrate his defensive structure. Ditto with Lange who I'm sure is having his own internal frustrations with the tactics. To me, that doesn't mean Munn isn't the right man for the CFO role. That is a more senior role and he needs guys around him. Ange is undoing all their good work in my opinion by not holding his end up. No point blaming the others.
SteveAWOL
Jimmy Cantrell
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FatBloke
Niko Kranjcar
Can't really argue with that, but I do think the added pressure of being at a club so hungry for success, and having been so close, was too much for Nuno.
I'll admit that I was happy with every one of Levy's choices -- Mourinho, Nuno, Conte, and now Ange were all, to my mind, perfectly decent choices at the time, and they were certainly given a decent amount of backing. Just a pity that they've been disaster after disaster. All I can hope now is that we win the Europa League, manage to appoint someone good over the summer, and don't lose too many of our bright young players.