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*** Tottenham Hotspur v Nottingham Forest ***

SpurMeUp said:
XG of 2.5 which we had today is normally sufficient - if you stop the other side from scoring 2.

Original post was: Nuno's defensive organisation out of possession, Ange's in possession, would work. What we don't do is sprint back when out of possession and get into a good shape.
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You can't have a setup where you have Ange football in possession and a defensive manager's out of it because Ange's ace up his sleeve is putting all his players bar 2 in the opposing half to give an attacking numerical advantage, which is completely at odds with how a a manager like Nuno sets teams up - good managers with well thought out setups work advantages in possession through the shape, movement and passing of their players - not by chucking everyone forward like lunchtime football on the playground.
 
First Forest goal: Porro VERY weak header, Deki already sprinting forwards rather than defending, Bentancur tries to block but of course it goes through his legs and deflects past the flailing Vic. So poor.

Second Forest goal: super easy for them to cross it, Romero totally unaware and doing nothing to impact the enormous striker behind him, likewise Van de Ven just lets him get a header, no contact, no push in the back, no sly dig, no jump, just useless, meanwhile Vic flies out and is nowhere near it So poor.

Poor us. Porous. 3 'goals' let in in 15 minutes. As usual.





Later on everything we try hits a body or is scraped clear, the clearance by Toffolo is exceptional, the save from Richie's header is exceptional, and we are unable to claw back the points.

Too many players taking 3 touches rather than 1.
 
billyiddo said:
You can't have a setup where you have Ange football in possession and a defensive manager's out of it because Ange's ace up his sleeve is putting all his players bar 2 in the opposing half to give an attacking numerical advantage - good managers with well.thought out setups work advantages in possession through shape and movement of their players not by chucking everyone forward
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Obviously, but the best side do actually do both. They commit men forward (at the right time), then have men sprint back to get into a good defensive shape.

To your point that we're crap in possession, we are the 5th highest scoring side in the league. To say there is no ability or decent play in possession is clearly not so. Especially as we don't have a striker who's banging them in.
 
They're such a fvcking agricultural team. How in the world they are 3rd is beyond me. Lucky bastards all season. That being said, I don't mind the loss. Better they make it to the CL than Saudi Sportswashing Machine or Villa, who at least are sustaining their top 8 position. Forest will be relegation fodder in a couple of seasons time, if not next season.

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SpurMeUp said:
Obviously, but the best side do actually do both. They commit men forward (at the right time), then have men sprint back to get into a good defensive shape.

To your point that we're crap in possession, we are the 5th highest scoring side in the league. To say there is no ability or decent play in possession is clearly not so. Especially as we don't have a striker who's banging them in.
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I said our setup in possession is not good, you could argue it's effective but given we're staring one of our worst ever seasons in the face I'd question how effective it has been - we gain an advantage by putting so many players forward, there's no real sign of good play creating chances and opening teams up it's literally just a numbers game - overload the opposition and chances will eventually come as a result. That's not good football imv especially when the draw backs of that is that it leaves us so exposed
 
That was absolutely dire. Again. Game over after 20 minutes. Yes I know that Sels had a good game but that’s what PL GKs are supposed to do (take note, Vicario). Schoolboy goals given away again. Rubbish service to the striker(s).

The only players that I thought can take decent credit from that are Tel, Spence, Bergvall. Porro did ok to be fair. Maybe Bentancur. and Richi kept going despite awful service.

Our club is in a terrible state. Totally rudderless. I thought that Forest were pretty average tonight but that’s all they needed to be. 19 league defeats now isn’t it? Hells teeth.
 
billyiddo said:
I said our setup in possession is not good, you could argue it's effective but given we're staring one of our worst ever seasons in the face I'd question how effective it has been - we gain an advantage by putting so many players forward, there's no real sign of good play creating chances and opening teams up it's literally just a numbers game - overload the opposition and chances will eventually come as a result. That's not good football imv especially when the draw backs of that is that it leaves us so exposed
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A bit confused. First you said we dont do much with possession - but actually we do. Even in a shi1 team we're scoring well. So not sure that point stands.

Then you're saying out of possession we're poor - and yes, that was my point. We are fuking atrocious. Part of that is on our commitment to attacking. But not all of it. Plenty of times we have the time to get men back, but still dont defend well. If you can't see this, then what can I do? It is plain to see.
 
Don’t know if it has been mentioned earlier in the thread but there were so so many empty seats tonight. I know it’s Easter Monday but I’m sure theres also an element of people having had enough. There was a time when people would be delighted to have given up a BH to go to WHL. Not any more. It’s an absolute hiding to nothing.
 
SpurMeUp said:
A bit confused. First you said we dont do much with possession - but actually we do. Even in a shi1 team we're scoring well. So not sure that point stands.

Then you're saying out of possession we're poor - and yes, that was my point. We are fuking atrocious. Part of that is on our attacking system. But not all of it. Plenty of times we have the time to get men back, but dont. If you can't see this, then what can I do! Its plain to see.
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No i did not say we don't do much in possession , I said we are not set up well/good in possession. Throwing everyone forward to gain an advantage while leaving yourself exposed is not setting a team up well in possession. Goals scored over a season does not a story tell
 
billyiddo said:
No i did not say we don't do much in possession , I said we are not set up well/good in possession. Throwing everyone forward to gain an advantage while leaving yourself exposed is not setting a team up well in possession. Goals scored over a season does not a story tell
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Funny I could have sworn you wrote:

billyiddo said:
I honestly don't know what team you're watching, we're terrible in possession - laboured, plodding football
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If we could defend well, do the simple things well, even playing Ange's system we'd be a decent side. For example, we barely contest throw ins. Other sides make it hard for us to get possession off of a throw in. We don't even pressure sides and mark them well on their throw-ins. Or...we are easy to get at down the flanks. We press - but with no regard to where we are leaving spaces. We don't press with any tactical awareness - trying to force the opposition to play into areas we want. We give away free headers, time and again.

None of this comes from committing men forward. We conceded form a corner today for example - how could that be related to the way we attack? In short, we are decent in possession, the 5th highest scorers in the league. Whilst committing men forward won't ever allow us to be Forest levels tight at the back, we could still eradicate half of the goals we concede with a better out of possession shape, and coaching.

Vic also didn't cover himself in glory tonight, two goals he might have saved.
 
fernadez said:
What are they getting away with though?

They started well scored 2, could have had more and then kept a good shape and waited to pounce on any opportunities given to them.

That's really good game management. They didn't camp, the line was surprisingly high. They just defended well and were direct in possession.
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Only having 3-5 shots a game and scoring 2-3 goals. It’s incredible efficiency but not sustainable for more than a season or two.
 
Let's be honest. Forest could not have complained if they'd have lost that game 4-1. We were by far the better team out there, but for a brain dead Romero and Vicario. And this is how it goes for a team low on confidence vs a team high on confidence.

But again, fudging Romero is more brain dead than a headless chicken! Absolute garbage!
 
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