***TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR v Crystal Palace OMT***

[Bullet]

There are lots of people in every match thread shouting for Lennon, crosses and width. The odd cross to make us less predictable would be useful, but that's not what's being asked for. Mostly people appear to be suggesting that width and crosses are what will make us score.

You don't understand. People want Lennon for width and getting to the byline and stretching the defence, he doesn't have to cross it high or low, he can knock it back, he can run into the box, anything that stretches and turns the defence.

The reason our #10's can't get any space is because their fullbacks can stay close to their centre backs, if you have width it pulls the defence further apart and creates gaps, as the full backs have to mark Lennon.

It is not about big 80's swinging crosses to big Mark Hateley.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

**** season is simple

- No improvement in team/key players
- No improvement in home form
- No improvement in watchability of game
- Anything lower than 7th
- No real cup run

Rose, Mason, Kane, Naughton, Chadli and a few others have already improved. The rest that haven't were **** last season too. The only one that has regressed us Ade, but you know what he's like. By the end of the season is expect this to be fine.

Home form is a fair point, needs to improve. Poch seems to realise that based on his quotes.

In spells we've been more watchable than under AVB and at least as watchable as under Sherwood. It needs to improve, but over the course of this season there are going to be ups and downs, as long as by the last run of games there are more ups than downs I'll be happy.

If you would be happy with 7th and above (I would too) then why are you so certain this season will be **** when at this point we are 5 point off 3rd?

Were still in all the cups, so on track with that one too.

 

[Armchair Expert]

You can't get down the sides and turn them around when they're sat back the way teams do against us.

I don't think teams sit back against us that much anymore. Palace were expansive at times today and tore through our midfield and created chances. As did Stoke TBF. I don't think teams come the the Lane happy to sttle for a point, they come for the win.

 

[scaramanga]

You don't understand. People want Lennon for width and getting to the byline and stretching the defence, he doesn't have to cross it high or low, he can knock it back, he can run into the box, anything that stretches and turns the defence.

The reason our #10's can't get any space is because their fullbacks can stay close to their centre backs, if you have width it pulls the defence further apart and creates gaps, as the full backs have to mark Lennon.

It is not about big 80's swinging crosses to big Mark Hateley.

How does Lennon stretch and get behind two settled banks of 4 that don't want to show any attempt to get forward?

 

[Robspur12]

The way to improve the pace of our game is one-touch passing, not faster players. Faster players will only speed things us if they have space to run into - teams won't give us that space.

A team sitting back doesn't need to send a DM wide as they already have their winger back with the full back tucked in behind. As the back 4 (or even 8 ) are so compressed there's not really much you can do with width to pull them out of shape. When it does work is when you overload one side and drag everyone over - a late-arriving full back then can stretch a settled defence.

Admittedly having the width coming from a winger means that we're less exposed with a ball into the corner, but that's why we've got Walker, that's why we've got Rose (if we can teach him to chase back) and that's probably why we've got Yedlin.

Agreed.

 

[scaramanga]

I don't think teams sit back against us that much anymore. Palace were expansive at times today and tore through our midfield and created chances. As did Stoke TBF. I don't think teams come the the Lane happy to sttle for a point, they come for the win.

Palace attacked with two players - Utd reject and Bolasie (sp?)

They're both very quick and very tricky but look at when they broke - Palace still kept a very solid shape. There was only one time I remember them over committing and leaving gaps.

 

[Robspur12]

Rose, Mason, Kane, Naughton, Chadli and a few others have already improved. The rest that haven't were **** last season too. The only one that has regressed us Ade, but you know what he's like. By the end of the season is expect this to be fine.

Home form is a fair point, needs to improve. Poch seems to realise that based on his quotes.

In spells we've been more watchable than under AVB and at least as watchable as under Sherwood. It needs to improve, but over the course of this season there are going to be ups and downs, as long as by the last run of games there are more ups than downs I'll be happy.

If you would be happy with 7th and above (I would too) then why are you so certain this season will be **** when at this point we are 5 point off 3rd?

Were still in all the cups, so on track with that one too.

Too much sense dude. In general Poch's substitutions are better it's just that there's not a lot of choice in terms of variety of personnel

 

[Dr Rosenrosen]

OK. It was crystal clear that it would take more than half a season to sort out. Sherwood's team played better football sometimes, it also played some shocking stuff and the lack of shape would have been a disaster going forward. One thing that Sherwood was 100% right about was the lack of character in the squad and that I think is the main issue that we have. My priority for January would be to bring in a top quality experienced player to help bring through the kids.

Scotty Parker's probably available.

 

[the dza]

You can't get down the sides and turn them around when they're sat back the way teams do against us.

Scara, even Guardiola teams have pace and width. You surely have to create space for the technicians to do their thing. Whether that's Dani Alves, Jordi Alba or David Alaba, someone has to do it. We had zero pace in the starting XI today and nobody making the pitch bigger. Davies does it a little bit, but he doesn't have the pace to get up and down.

That, imo, is the problem with the makeup of this team. It was improved by having Lennon playing on the right. IMO, it will be better when Walker comes back, then I'd happily play Eriksen on the right infront of him, and give Townsend a go as the more orthodox wide player in the team, on the left side. Then we at least carry the threat of pace and stretch teams a bit, giving Eriksen, Mason etc. more space to play in and more options when we et the chance to break with the ball.

We do need to out Soldado as well, imo. He is a nothing player for us. Buy a good forward or stick Chadli there as a stop-gap. But we can't play it up to his head, he doesn't have the strength to hold it up nor the pace to run channels or run in behind. His movement is ok, but he can't finish. I think he'll do alright at his next club, but Spurs isn't working for him.

 

[scaramanga]

Scara, even Guardiola teams have pace and width. You surely have to create space for the technicians to do their thing. Whether that's Dani Alves, Jordi Alba or David Alaba, someone has to do it. We had zero pace in the starting XI today and nobody making the pitch bigger. Davies does it a little bit, but he doesn't have the pace to get up and down.

That, imo, is the problem with the makeup of this team. It was improved by having Lennon playing on the right. IMO, it will be better when Walker comes back, then I'd happily play Eriksen on the right infront of him, and give Townsend a go as the more orthodox wide player in the team, on the left side. Then we at least carry the threat of pace and stretch teams a bit, giving Eriksen, Mason etc. more space to play in and more options when we et the chance to break with the ball.

We do need to out Soldado as well, imo. He is a nothing player for us. Buy a good forward or stick Chadli there as a stop-gap. But we can't play it up to his head, he doesn't have the strength to hold it up nor the pace to run channels or run in behind. His movement is ok, but he can't finish. I think he'll do alright at his next club, but Spurs isn't working for him.

Sorry, stopped reading at Townsend.

Can't have a sensible discussion if that's your starting point

 

[Moby]

Would it be so awful to play a classic Spurs like 4-4-1-1? Its clear inverted-wingers does not work for us, and neither does crowbarring in 6 players who all prefer to be a 'Number 10'.

A settled side would work wonders too, so less chopping and a changing, and lets try to get a clear idea of our best team.

A back line of Lloris, Walker, Fazio, Vertonghan, Davies would be pretty solid.
Midfield could be Lennon (R), Bentaleb, Mason, Townsend (L)
Eriksen as a number 10 off the striker, Rafa-style
Kane up top as he's our best striker

Not convinced about the back ups to that team though in fairness! I pretty much have question marks against all of Adebayor, Soldado, Lamela, Pauline, Dembele, Capoue, Naughton, Chiriches, & Kaboul. Only Lamela and Chadli worth persevering with, although as Number 10's they'd need to find a place to work in for the team, not themselves, I feel.

S0d it, just recall Carroll and Pritchard and flog the rest!!!

 

[the dza]

Sorry, stopped reading at Townsend.

Can't have a sensible discussion if that's your starting point

Well, you don't have to agree on Townsend, but the general principle is valid I think. Frustrating to watch us today win the ball from Palace and catch them with a few players pushed up, only to have nobody bursting forward off the ball with any speed. Or have Lamela carry the ball inside, with Dier plodding up outside him, likewise Eriksen and Davies down the left. And unless the ball is inch perfect for Soldado and he's a yard out and can't miss, he's useless.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Too much sense dude. In general Poch's substitutions are better it's just that there's not a lot of choice in terms of variety of personnel

Glory Glory at the start of the season;

'This is a transitional season, things will take time, there will be good and bad performances, but we have to support him'

Glory Glory half way through the season;

'WE SHOULD BE HIGHER IN THE LEAGUE BECAUSE EVERYONE ELSE IS ****. WHY ARENT WE BRILLIANT YET?? EVERY SINGLE PERFORMANCE IS TERRIBLE, IT DOESNT MATTER HOW MANY POINTS WE HAVE, GET POCH OUT!!'

 

[the dza]

Poch's done the right thing dropping Capoue and Dembele at least, putting in others who can at least move the ball better. Also, Fazio and Vertonghen are developing into a decent pairing. Walker back fit solves right back. Davies and Rose have got left-back fairly well sorted imo.

If we just had effective players in place of Lamela and Soldado, we'd be a different team. Don't have to be world-beaters, just do an effective job and actually enhance the team rather than hinder it.

 

[Andyandy]

Glory Glory at the start of the season;

'This is a transitional season, things will take time, there will be good and bad performances, but we have to support him'

Glory Glory half way through the season;

'WE SHOULD BE HIGHER IN THE LEAGUE BECAUSE EVERYONE ELSE IS ****. WHY ARENT WE BRILLIANT YET?? EVERY SINGLE PERFORMANCE IS TERRIBLE, IT DOESNT MATTER HOW MANY POINTS WE HAVE, GET POCH OUT!!'

If anybody thinks the solution to these problems is with the manager then they havent been watching tottenham for the last 3 seasons!

The issues are with signing the wrong players. These signings have been so bad that they are making our youth system look amazing!

 

[Andyandy]

It will be interesting to see what happens in January.

 

[Baleforce]

If anybody thinks the solution to these problems is with the manager then they havent been watching tottenham for the last 3 seasons!

The issues are with signing the wrong players. These signings have been so bad that they are making our youth system look amazing!

glad I'm not the only one

 

[superpav]

people wanting lennon to play. have they forgot how poor lennon been in the last 4 seasons.
hes had so many chances at spurs and should only be used as an inpact sub

 

[scaramanga]

Well, you don't have to agree on Townsend

I'm glad about that. If you think he's anything more than the least effective player to pull on a Spurs shirt we're going to struggle.

, but the general principle is valid I think. Frustrating to watch us today win the ball from Palace and catch them with a few players pushed up, only to have nobody bursting forward off the ball with any speed. Or have Lamela carry the ball inside, with Dier plodding up outside him, likewise Eriksen and Davies down the left. And unless the ball is inch perfect for Soldado and he's a yard out and can't miss, he's useless.

I agree that Dier and Davies aren't quick enough of feet or mind for that role. I think they can learn to make up for their lack of physical pace, but it will take time.

I also agree that width is useful when passing in front of a defence to try and get them to lose their shape. I don't think that's a traditional vs inverted winger argument though. I think it's down to decision making, and (as with AVB) an understanding between a group of new attacking players learning a completely new style will take some time.

 

[Raziel]

If anybody thinks the solution to these problems is with the manager then they havent been watching tottenham for the last 3 seasons!

The issues are with signing the wrong players. These signings have been so bad that they are making our youth system look amazing!

Nothing to do with players (other than when manager insist on playing an unsuited/under performing players)Just like our side suddenly didn't improve when we hired Harry over Ramos.

Over the last 3 season we have hired 3 vastly inexperienced managers and just like two inverted wingers, no matter what spin you want to put on it, it doesn't work.