Tottenham Hotspur Stadium - Licence To Stand

[Bedfordspurs]

This could well end the Trust as a useful conduit with the club. They have essentially declared war on the club and surely the club will trust them less now. It is one thing making comments to the press, another using them to attack the club.

They make some good points, but they also are grossly misleading when they say prices have been increased by up to 70%. I assume this number can be reached by a lower East Stand ticket holder insisting they stay in the middle at the same distance from the pitch, but this is not representative. The club have made mistakes, notably the ridiculous comment that prices haven't gone up at all because the offerings are not like-for-like and the limits on the concessions, while the placing of the 1882 seats in the south stand was a PR mistake at best, but writing unbalanced articles in the press is likely to be counter-productive.

The suggestion that the club could still reduce prices is naive. A lot of fans will have chosen their seats to fit their budget. While a price drop would be nice, it will come with the annoyance that they could have got a better seat if they had known the reduced price. Reversing the concessions policy could also add to the aggravation for fans who have moved to get the concession. Time will tell if the club have made a mistake with the pricing. Restoring cup games or discounting them is a better suggestion, but the club won't be listening to the trust after this.

Listen to the fighting vock podcast with the trust this week. They come across decent people just a little bitten by all of this

I do think they need a PR lesson or two as the way they have written stuff around the tickets and pricing would (for me) break their relationship with the club. Ive learnt that you have to use posture language even in a negative message to keep people aligned and they basically tear into the club in theirs

 

[jts1882]

Some good points about the Trust and it being their job to ask questions on the ticket pricing.

However, it just doesn't look good that they took money from a national newspaper for a negative piece on the club. They would be doing their job by talking to the press about their dissatisfaction and allowing the journalists to write the piece, after offering the club a chance to respond.

 

[Libero]

This could well end the Trust as a useful conduit with the club. They have essentially declared war on the club and surely the club will trust them less now. It is one thing making comments to the press, another using them to attack the club.

They make some good points, but they also are grossly misleading when they say prices have been increased by up to 70%. I assume this number can be reached by a lower East Stand ticket holder insisting they stay in the middle at the same distance from the pitch, but this is not representative. The club have made mistakes, notably the ridiculous comment that prices haven't gone up at all because the offerings are not like-for-like and the limits on the concessions, while the placing of the 1882 seats in the south stand was a PR mistake at best, but writing unbalanced articles in the press is likely to be counter-productive.

The suggestion that the club could still reduce prices is naive. A lot of fans will have chosen their seats to fit their budget. While a price drop would be nice, it will come with the annoyance that they could have got a better seat if they had known the reduced price. Reversing the concessions policy could also add to the aggravation for fans who have moved to get the concession. Time will tell if the club have made a mistake with the pricing. Restoring cup games or discounting them is a better suggestion, but the club won't be listening to the trust after this.

TBH, the club have proven over the last 12 months that they do not see the Trust as a useful conduit because they have completely done the opposite time and time again despite recommendations so Cloake actually doesn't lose anything by attacking the club publically because they don't seem to listen to a single thing privately. The trust needs to take a more militant approach if it is possible to represent the views of all the fans but more of the fans who are really annoyed by the pricing structure and all the other asides need to join the trust, the more people involved with strength of feeling about what has gone on will make the trust more of a force and more representative.

The club are never going to drop prices and in some aspects they have got them completely wrong. People will put up with it for this year because it is new and shiny but to be one of, if not the most expensive ticket prices in the world is not comparable with what we see on the pitch. We haven't won anything for over a decade and have only qualified for the CL in consecutive seasons once. It's a massive own goal from the club but ultimately they don't care because they will always get a bum on a seat but whilst the club might feel the trust have burnt bridges with them, the club have burnt bridges with the fans over Wembley and the New Stadium and that will be a problem for them if we become less competitive or sell players that we shouldn't be selling because they are demanding absolute top dollar from the fans and it is difficult then to not see that reinvested into the team.

The best way for the club to show a bit of willing would be to restore cup games, maybe make it 3 games given the extra expense of a ST and make some tweaks like make block 113 available for ST holders which is right next to the away fans rather than insisting it is left purely for match day sales and reduce by a smallish but reasonable percentage the amount of 1882 seats in the South Stand. Simple things to do that impact very little in the great scheme of things on finances given the ticket revenue is a minute amount of income compared with other streams but the club will do nothing because they don't have to and that will tell you everything you need to know about what the club really think of the fanbase.

 

[Libero]

Listen to the fighting vock podcast with the trust this week. They come across decent people just a little bitten by all of this

I do think they need a PR lesson or two as the way they have written stuff around the tickets and pricing would (for me) break their relationship with the club. Ive learnt that you have to use posture language even in a negative message to keep people aligned and they basically tear into the club in theirs

Because they have had a year or two of the club posturing as if it actually cares what the fans think and then basically shooing the trust away. After a while you give up using normal channels of communications or reasonable dialogue if you are just being mugged off. I swear some people think the trust should just keep smiling and using soundbytes to demonstrate displeasure. At least this article might get more people aware of what's really going on here rather than exclusively Spurs fans moaning between themselves.

The trust need more people on board and need to be less nodding dog with the club and apply pressure where they can if all the club are going to do is do its own thing. What the pressure is, I don't know off hand what can be done but the club have lost any good will with the fan base and if people feel they are being short changed with what's going on with the 11 on the pitch then it will very quickly turn to anger and visible displeasure given the prices we are paying for a level of product that is in context, only semi successful.

 

[MKSpur]

You'll have all kinds of different faces round you when things aren't going well again

My assumption was that my surrounding seats now are a mix of general sale and existing season ticket holders - but yes it the performances drop I think fans will definitely pick and choose their games if there is a large number of tickets available for resale. IIRC it was as recently as Santini’s season that there was no waiting list for a season ticket...

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Because they have had a year or two of the club posturing as if it actually cares what the fans think and then basically shooing the trust away. After a while you give up using normal channels of communications or reasonable dialogue if you are just being mugged off. I swear some people think the trust should just keep smiling and using soundbytes to demonstrate displeasure. At least this article might get more people aware of what's really going on here rather than exclusively Spurs fans moaning between themselves.

The trust need more people on board and need to be less nodding dog with the club and apply pressure where they can if all the club are going to do is do its own thing. What the pressure is, I don't know off hand what can be done but the club have lost any good will with the fan base and if people feel they are being short changed with what's going on with the 11 on the pitch then it will very quickly turn to anger and visible displeasure given the prices we are paying for a level of product that is in context, only semi successful.

But if anyone thinks the way they been coming across lately is going to get them club on their off their heads

The club can be as selective sective as they want now were semi successful as they have more and more people wanting in

 

[scaramanga]

Didn't the club and the Trust have their general catch up meeting a month ago,where the trust asked a few questions about the new ground and ticket prices.why didn't the club announce the new prices then, i presume the club knew their be a brick storm if they announced them then and basically face to face.
So now they can put out their press release and their tweets and put their spin on it without having to answer to anyone in person.

I think it's more that the club (quite rightly) doesn't take the trust very seriously.

They're not avoiding the trust, they're just treating it with the seriousness it deserves.

 

[Libero]

But if anyone thinks the way they been coming across lately is going to get them club on their off their heads

The club can be as selective sective as they want now were semi successful as they have more and more people wanting in

I don't think they expect it to get them more access with the club because the club have shown they just don't care. I don't think treating the trust like that is a good idea personally even if it isn't fully representative of the fan base. Having a good dialogue and understanding with the fans can buy you some time if things start going wrong.

 

[tommysvr]

The Trust is supposed to represent all (the majority) of fans. Did their response to the ticket prices do that? The reactions on this board prove not, I would say.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The Trust is supposed to represent all (the majority) of fans. Did their response to the ticket prices do that? The reactions on this board prove not, I would say.

I think they did personally

But they represent the fans that pay their membership dong forget so 10,000 and only

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I don't think they expect it to get them more access with the club because the club have shown they just don't care. I don't think treating the trust like that is a good idea personally even if it isn't fully representative of the fan base. Having a good dialogue and understanding with the fans can buy you some time if things start going wrong.

Comes down to how you engage with fans I agree... the trust try and do have regular comms but their results haven’t been a complete sucess either as you would expect

 

[Libero]

The Trust is supposed to represent all (the majority) of fans. Did their response to the ticket prices do that? The reactions on this board prove not, I would say.

It can only do that if more people join. At the moment, the trust seems to generally have people on board who try to do a good job but aren't massively aggrieved by the prices, removal of cup games etc. If people more annoyed by all of that joined then the trust would be stronger and more representative.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Libero - what bridges did the club burn with fans over Wembley?

 

[Libero]

Comes down to how you engage with fans I agree... the trust try and do have regular comms but their results haven’t been a complete sucess either as you would expect

Definitely, they have done their part, don't see what else they can do. All they are trying to achieve is a good relationship between the club and fans and you can see with Liverpool how that worked out when the owners made an error re pricing in the new main stand - they rectified it and as a result the relationship grew stronger. I think it just signifies that despite the club saying they want to engage, they actually don't care for what anyone outside their network of 8-10 people think which is a shame.

 

[Libero]

Libero - what bridges did the club burn with fans over Wembley?

Quite a lot of grumbles over the process from what I remember with window times, the phasing and pricing, someone will always have a gripe but also not allowing certain supporters an amnesty from Wembley, the pricing structure, no cup games included etc. They again didn't listen to concerns raised by the trust which individual supporters raised and then the general wider issues like the pricing.

 

[Lemonade Money]

Levy has been doing this for years.
I've friends who started with a corporate lounge, and received an a la carte three course meal and unlimited drink. The next season, for the same money, a three course buffet meal and unlimited drink. The next season, for the same money, a three course buffet meal and pay bar with free half time drinks. The next season, for the same money, a three course buffet meal and pay bar. Etc, etc. Over the course, people got fed up and left, and the lounges gradually got downgraded. Even boxes got modified into 'lounge seating'.
This is what Levy does, it's the way he operates for better or worse. Maybe he has psychopathic tendencies. Well, fans now know what it's like to complete a transfer deal with THFC!

 

[Raziel]

Context is a wonderful thing

- Yes, the prices have gone up significantly, but this is after multiple years of price freezes (hence the increase should be divided over the multiple years, not one)
- The club is not arbitrarily raising prices, there is the small matter of new stadium in the same location (that fans insisted on)
- The tickets will be what the market supports, if no one was buying, the club would adjust.

The trust may have good intentions, but it's bad PR & negotiations

- The easy ask would have been for the club to put the cup games back on season tickets, simple compromise
- The trust also has had a direct access to the club, they are risking that, believe me a Chairman agreeing to a regular occurrence with a supporters trust is a significant give by the club.

Said it before, stupidity is ok when on fan forums, but if you are building a case to discuss with the club, you can't demand

- New stadium in same location
- Increased salaries to keep key players
- Demand a squad that can compete in CL and for title

and then say "why are you raising the ticket prices" without a compromise strategy, e.g. we would propose a x% increase if the club added cup seats as part of package.

 

[Libero]

Context is a wonderful thing

- Yes, the prices have gone up significantly, but this is after multiple years of price freezes (hence the increase should be divided over the multiple years, not one)
- The club is not arbitrarily raising prices, there is the small matter of new stadium in the same location (that fans insisted on)
- The tickets will be what the market supports, if no one was buying, the club would adjust.

The trust may have good intentions, but it's bad PR & negotiations

- The easy ask would have been for the club to put the cup games back on season tickets, simple compromise
- The trust also has had a direct access to the club, they are risking that, believe me a Chairman agreeing to a regular occurrence with a supporters trust is a significant give by the club.

Said it before, stupidity is ok when on fan forums, but if you are building a case to discuss with the club, you can't demand

- New stadium in same location
- Increased salaries to keep key players
- Demand a squad that can compete in CL and for title

and then say "why are you raising the ticket prices" without a compromise strategy, e.g. we would propose a x% increase if the club added cup seats as part of package.

That doesn't mean that because it is purely on market forces that you use that as your final price point. A little bit of common sense could have been used when the ticketing income is minimal by comparison to other revenue streams.

It isn't really a significant give by the club, not when the chairman looks like he doesn't give a damn what fans concerns are, its just two hours out of his day every 6 months. The trust will have no doubt suggested the Cup idea as have other people in correspondence with the club yet they seem unwavered in their approach. This sort of thing happens in every industry and its just a waste of time. Why bother asking end users what their requirements are, what their concerns are etc and then not act on any of it at all in reality? Its just a waste of everyone's time.

I think describing Martin Cloake's column as stupidity is over the top. He hasn't made unsubstantiated allegations, he hasn't personally attacked Levy either. He has merely articulated fans concerns, in a broad sense, in a newspaper that hopefully gives it more advertisement. Especially when the club has said that up until last week they hadn't had many complaints at all about pricing and benefits.

The three points you raise aren't demands or desires based on nothing, they are based on what we are charged and what the club is going to receive TV money wise and sponsorship wise. Competing is one thing and that's fine but we've done that already without the new stadium and when as a club we have gone over 10 years without winning something then its a little rich to want fans to pay ticket prices that would be commensurate with watching a club as successful as Real Madrid or Manchester United if you aren't going to put a little bit more into the playing side of things than you did before. That's why I say, its all well and good now but if players start being sold and we slip down the table then fans will be very, very quick to show their disquiet and potentially want a change and I don't blame them for that but it could be avoided with a little bit of common sense rather than behaving as though the lifeblood of the club matters not one jot.

 

[Jordinho]

That doesn't mean that because it is purely on market forces that you use that as your final price point. A little bit of common sense could have been used when the ticketing income is minimal by comparison to other revenue streams.

It isn't really a significant give by the club, not when the chairman looks like he doesn't give a damn what fans concerns are, its just two hours out of his day every 6 months. The trust will have no doubt suggested the Cup idea as have other people in correspondence with the club yet they seem unwavered in their approach. This sort of thing happens in every industry and its just a waste of time. Why bother asking end users what their requirements are, what their concerns are etc and then not act on any of it at all in reality? Its just a waste of everyone's time.

I think describing Martin Cloake's column as stupidity is over the top. He hasn't made unsubstantiated allegations, he hasn't personally attacked Levy either. He has merely articulated fans concerns, in a broad sense, in a newspaper that hopefully gives it more advertisement. Especially when the club has said that up until last week they hadn't had many complaints at all about pricing and benefits.

The three points you raise aren't demands or desires based on nothing, they are based on what we are charged and what the club is going to receive TV money wise and sponsorship wise. Competing is one thing and that's fine but we've done that already without the new stadium and when as a club we have gone over 10 years without winning something then its a little rich to want fans to pay ticket prices that would be commensurate with watching a club as successful as Real Madrid or Manchester United if you aren't going to put a little bit more into the playing side of things than you did before. That's why I say, its all well and good now but if players start being sold and we slip down the table then fans will be very, very quick to show their disquiet and potentially want a change and I don't blame them for that but it could be avoided with a little bit of common sense rather than behaving as though the lifeblood of the club matters not one jot.

Match day income is actually not that insignificant.

The numbers for last season are due any day now I think, but the latest Deloitte money league have us at over 300 million for last season. For 2015/16 the total revenue was £210 million and £40 million of that was matchday income. For Arsenal the numbers were £350 million and £100 million. If revenue really has risen as high as 300 million then matchday is no more than 10-15% of that, but with the prices we're asking now we're looking at more than £100 million, which is not far off what we get in tv money. Arsenal get more tv money than us as well, but that's because their media facilities are better. We're way behind the other top six commercially, but that gap can only be bridged through years of sustained success.

 

[parklane1]

I think it's more that the club (quite rightly) doesn't take the trust very seriously.

They're not avoiding the trust, they're just treating it with the seriousness it deserves.

The Trust is supposed to represent all (the majority) of fans. Did their response to the ticket prices do that? The reactions on this board prove not, I would say.

Agree with both of the above.

The trust is and always been a waste of time, run by those who want to feel/sound important, most fans who i have come across over the years regard them as wanabees full of hot air.