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**** Tottenham Hotspur FC vs Fulham FC ****

Bedfordspurs said:
He wants to complain I guess
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Bedfordspurs said:
We were dominating against villa form the off
What we didn’t do is pepper their goal with shots
That was because like many teams, they stuck many men behind the ball
(Something Fulham didn’t do)
Shooting isn’t dominance. Control the game and the tempo is
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Creating chances is dominating, making the keeper makes saves is dominating. Having loads of the ball and doing nothing with it isn’t IMO.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Re the Villa game, I made the point that we weren’t THAT much better in the first half and didn’t dominate but got short shrift for it. We dominated possession but didn’t actually create anything, Villa looked more threatening on the rare times they ventured forward but didn’t look particularly frightening either. 0-0 was very much a fair reflection but some people think just tiring a team and dominating possession means you’re battering the other team. Second half I thought we controlled, yes playing against 10 men helped massively but Villa still didn’t lay a glove on us.

It’s worth taking stock and not losing perspective. Arsenal took 4 years to seriously challenge under Arteta. victims didn’t challenge for the title with Klopp until his 4th season. The nature of the style of football we play makes it very hard to predict and we could see more heavy wins followed by reality checks like we saw against Brighton and Fulham.
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I'm with you in that the first halves of the two games weren't that much different. We created nothing against Villa and they created nothing although had some dangerous situations. Fulham we had three very good chances and they had more. Both first halves were pretty evenly matched imo.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Creating chances is dominating, making the keeper makes saves is dominating. Having loads of the ball and doing nothing with it isn’t IMO.
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No it isn’t
It’s shooting
Shooting means you hit a ball towards a goal
Its not a measure of anything
Keeping the ball and progressing with the ball is control and therefore dominance. We weren’t playing it around at the back. We were looking for Villa to commit and attack us (which they didn’t other than hopeless long balls)
If you want shots and chances watch Everton. They are masters of what you describe and they are struggling on every other metric
 
Bedfordspurs said:
No it isn’t
It’s shooting
Shooting means you hit a ball towards a goal
Its not a measure of anything
Keeping the ball and progressing with the ball is control and therefore dominance. We weren’t playing it around at the back. We were looking for Villa to commit and attack us (which they didn’t other than hopeless long balls)
If you want shots and chances watch Everton. They are masters of what you describe and they are struggling on every other metric
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Ok look let’s just agree to disagree. You clearly think we dominate nearly every match and I don’t. I think we dominate when we actually dominate, create chances, don’t let the other team out of their half, force the keeper to make saves. Simply having all of the ball isn’t even if it’s Spurs.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
He wants to complain I guess
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Or just not be too blinded by loyalty I can see what is happening in front of me? I’ve seen you claim we deserved to win games when we’ve had less of the ball, the other team have more chances but we’ve just been clinical. Yesterday is one of the few occasions on here which I’ve seen you admit we weren’t the better team
 
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Jurgen the German said:
Ok look let’s just agree to disagree. You clearly think we dominate nearly every match and I don’t. I think we dominate when we actually dominate, create chances, don’t let the other team out of their half, force the keeper to make saves. Simply having all of the ball isn’t even if it’s Spurs.
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No I don’t
But you wanna argue
That’s fine
Possession in the right parts of the pitch is dominance
Shooting is a product that sometimes
Against Villa away we were dominant
The stats showed it. My eyes showed it
We didn’t just shoot on sight first half because they had 9 men behind the ball most of that half. They played a back 5 and 3 midfielders who never left their half. Same as palace
Like i say, if you want shooting go and watch Everton
 
Jurgen the German said:
Or just not be too blinded by loyalty I can see what is happening in front of me? I’ve seen you claim we deserved to win games when we’ve had less of the ball, the other team have more chances but we’ve just been clinical. Yesterday is one of the few occasions on here which I’ve seen you admit we weren’t the better team
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Give me an example?
We rarely if ever have less of the ball
But possession for passions sake is pointless
There has to be an end product
It doesn’t have to be minute one though
Yesterday man for man we were outfought and out thought
That hasn’t happened much at all
I can’t straight away think of another game where that has happened in some time other than city in the cup (I didn’t watch wolves)

I would like to see us shoot more as sometimes we over play it. But we have a system that Ange wants that dictates that

People dig out Kulu for taking one touch too many and that’s fair. The worst at it is Destiny IMO who regularly crops us in the middle and takes 3 touches when one would be better
 
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Bedfordspurs said:
Give me an example?
We rarely if ever have less of the ball
But possession for passions sake is pointless
There has to be an end product
It doesn’t have to be minute one though
Yesterday man for man we were outfought and out thought
That hasn’t happened much at all
I can’t straight away think of another game where that has happened in some time other than city in the cup (I didn’t watch wolves)

I would like to see us shoot more as sometimes we over play it. But we have a system that Ange wants that dictates that

People dig out Kulu for taking one touch too many and that’s fair. The worst at it is Destiny IMO who regularly crops us in the middle and takes 3 touches when one would be better
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More under in Jose and Conte when we weren’t a possession team like we are now. We’d often sneak wins when we didn’t play well which is fine, all teams need to do that. But you’d claim after that we were the better team despite the stats saying otherwise.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
No I don’t
But you wanna argue
That’s fine
Possession in the right parts of the pitch is dominance
Shooting is a product that sometimes
Against Villa away we were dominant
The stats showed it. My eyes showed it
We didn’t just shoot on sight first half because they had 9 men behind the ball most of that half. They played a back 5 and 3 midfielders who never left their half. Same as palace
Like i say, if you want shooting go and watch Everton
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I don’t either. I may disagree with you but you’re reasonable unlike Jrh who is just a wum and an insufferable know it all.
 
Jurgen the German said:
More under in Jose and Conte when we weren’t a possession team like we are now. We’d often sneak wins when we didn’t play well which is fine, all teams need to do that. But you’d claim after that we were the better team despite the stats saying otherwise.
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That’s possibly fair (I’d have to check)
But that’s style of football designed to be dominant without the ball
 
Bedfordspurs said:
No system allows for players being so far off it… quite scary
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My question would be why were we so far off it with a week to prepare, plus other than the odd 20/25 minute bursts in matches we haven't really been on it much.

We have seen poor performances with 1 game a week, I am not overly confident we can cope with 2 games a week using the same tactics.
 
Legohamster said:
My question would be why were we so far off it with a week to prepare, plus other than the odd 20/25 minute bursts in matches we haven't really been on it much.
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Villa was far more than a 20 minute burst, come on man..

Yesterday could have been a conditioning thing? Too many players needing recovery? Lots of factors to consider.

Ange's system is notoriously hard on bodies, can take the first season or more for players to fully acclimatise..
 
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