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Toby Alderweireld

alekaras said:
We are slowly becoming one of the big boys now. And we'll have the financial muscle to offer competitive wages. So we won't have to scrape the bottom of the barrel to attract talent. Will we compete for the Pogbas and Messis? Of course not. But we will attract up-and-coming talent. For every Carrick we lose we'll find a Dier. For every Toby a Sanchez. For every Bale a Dele. We'll keep them for 3-4 years and they may move on. But during that time we'll be very competitive. We'll actually be very competitive for longer than that because a. we'll have a continuous assembly line of players moving in as others move out, and b. have a team that is greater than the sum of its parts. The only person we can't afford to lose is Poch. So don't worry. As long as he's around, we'll be fine.
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That’s a dangerous game to play because at some stage we’ll sell a Carrick and buy a Zokora or sell a Berbatov and buy a Frazier Campbell.

If we assume that the club will always unearth a great talent and Poch will always make them as good as the fella who has left, we’ll find ourselves in a position at some stage where we’re putting Poch under pressure because he’s not getting the same results. That’s wrong because he is a phenomenal manager.

Selling your best players and replacing them with younger ones is not sustainable from a consistency of results point of view in the long term.
 
The reality is in football that no player is irreplaceable. You may have to tweak your style and system to compliment the replacement but that’s football

Toby was the player for us that was such a linchpin to how we played and attacked.. strange for a defender

There are actually two great footballing centres backs that play similarly and would be gettable and arguably look better than what Toby did at Southampton. I’m referring to Maguire and Tarkoswki

Not saying their better than Toby has been for us but they look better than Toby did playing for a similar calibre club he did

But...the Toby thing is also political as “the message” is important in my peoples eyes.

My only concern is if we sell him we do not sell him to a perm team. That’s my only concern in reality which is actually a decent place to be
 
Aslong as the fitness/injury thing is all ok........I think we should give him the £130,000 a week for next season and increase the release clause to £35m so we get a decent fee at the end of next season.

It's good to have him around for one more year to help the team, and sanchez and foyth as they mature.

At the end of next season we may negotiate again or it gives Toby a chance at a big contract (abroad:)) elsewhere
 
DeanoAustin said:
That’s a dangerous game to play because at some stage we’ll sell a Carrick and buy a Zokora or sell a Berbatov and buy a Frazier Campbell.

If we assume that the club will always unearth a great talent and Poch will always make them as good as the fella who has left, we’ll find ourselves in a position at some stage where we’re putting Poch under pressure because he’s not getting the same results. That’s wrong because he is a phenomenal manager.

Selling your best players and replacing them with younger ones is not sustainable from a consistency of results point of view in the long term.
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How do you think Sanchez is doing over the past few months?
Long term selling older experienced players for younger players is a risk and a fact of life for any team. Having unfit players is a risk thats why Poch will now be looking at Jan and Dembele. We are very reliant on fitness and especially stamina as a squad.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
Aslong as the fitness/injury thing is all ok........I think we should give him the £130,000 a week for next season and increase the release clause to £35m so we get a decent fee at the end of next season.

It's good to have him around for one more year to help the team, and sanchez and foyth as they mature.

At the end of next season we may negotiate again or it gives Toby a chance at a big contract (abroad:)) elsewhere
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Yep like that.
What if TA now 29 wants £180k pw and a 5 year contract?
If we do nothing he will be gone for £25m by out in Jan or July 2019.
IF FIT how much is he worth now?
 
DeanoAustin said:
That’s a dangerous game to play because at some stage we’ll sell a Carrick and buy a Zokora or sell a Berbatov and buy a Frazier Campbell.

If we assume that the club will always unearth a great talent and Poch will always make them as good as the fella who has left, we’ll find ourselves in a position at some stage where we’re putting Poch under pressure because he’s not getting the same results. That’s wrong because he is a phenomenal manager.

Selling your best players and replacing them with younger ones is not sustainable from a consistency of results point of view in the long term.
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Yes, we may sell a Carrick and buy a Zokora, but you ignored my second point: having a team that is greater than the sum of its parts, which is what Poch has been so excellent at developing. So even if we do buy a Zokora, we should be able to cope. And if you think about it, how many teams, even the big ones, are able to replace a key player with someone who has exactly the same impact? When Xavi retired, did Barca find a new Xavi? When Ronaldo left Yanited, did they find a new Ronaldo? They still did OK though and their next season didn't fall apart because they lost those players. Now if we were to sell 4-5 players in one season, that would be a different story. But I just don't see that happening.
 
StephenH said:
Yep like that.
What if TA now 29 wants £180k pw and a 5 year contract?
If we do nothing he will be gone for £25m by out in Jan or July 2019.
IF FIT how much is he worth now?
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is that what his contract says?

I though he had a contract for another 2 years on a rumoured 50K a week so 2.6M a year

Thats 5.2m for the remainder of his contract up until he is 31 by which point you would argue he would be less desirable to most clubs

If we take up his extension next summer he can go for 25M at 30 years old. You can argue thats a bargain in this day and age or thats a lot of money for a 30 year old

The rumours is he wants money on par with VVD so 180k a week ... or 9.3M a year and you would assume for 4/5 years. and with a recently poor injury record too. Say we agree to that, its a commitment of roughly 40M from the start of his new contract (maybe this summer) so he would be 33/34 at the end of the contract. He could still arguably be world class or he could be injured a bit/lot... who knows. Its a big risk for the club to do that IMO

Personally if I'm general levy id be thinking w era keep him on his current contract for 2 years and let him go on a free rather than give him a wage that we cant currently afford (or one that would make waves in the club)
 
I'm confused. I thought the contract runs until 2019. If he was out of contract in the summer he would have been able to sign precontract deals with foreign clubs in January.

However, we have an option to extend for a year which also brings in the £25m buyout clause. So we do nothing and he leaves for nothing in 2019 or we extend the contract until 2020, in which case he could leave in 2019 for £25m if the buyout clause is invoked.
 
jts1882 said:
I'm confused. I thought the contract runs until 2019. If he was out of contract in the summer he would have been able to sign precontract deals with foreign clubs in January.

However, we have an option to extend for a year which also brings in the £25m buyout clause. So we do nothing and he leaves for nothing in 2019 or we extend the contract until 2020, in which case he could leave in 2019 for £25m if the buyout clause is invoked.
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You could be right. Read below.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/dec/31/mauricio-pochettino-toby-alderweireld-contract
AND
https://www.transfermarkt.com/toby-alderweireld/profil/spieler/42710
 
jts1882 said:
I'm confused. I thought the contract runs until 2019. If he was out of contract in the summer he would have been able to sign precontract deals with foreign clubs in January.

However, we have an option to extend for a year which also brings in the £25m buyout clause. So we do nothing and he leaves for nothing in 2019 or we extend the contract until 2020, in which case he could leave in 2019 for £25m if the buyout clause is invoked.
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I didn’t think the extension was time specific in what it invoked (but who knows). As in we can offer him an extension to the current contract of say 3 years but in doing so the buy out kicks in

Or we agree a whole new contract

Either way he is contracted to us as it stands for 2018/2019 and 2019/2020 when he will be 31 I think ...
 
jts1882 said:
I'm confused. I thought the contract runs until 2019. If he was out of contract in the summer he would have been able to sign precontract deals with foreign clubs in January.

However, we have an option to extend for a year which also brings in the £25m buyout clause. So we do nothing and he leaves for nothing in 2019 or we extend the contract until 2020, in which case he could leave in 2019 for £25m if the buyout clause is invoked.
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I think this is correct
 
StephenH said:
How do you think Sanchez is doing over the past few months?
Long term selling older experienced players for younger players is a risk and a fact of life for any team. Having unfit players is a risk thats why Poch will now be looking at Jan and Dembele. We are very reliant on fitness and especially stamina as a squad.
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I think Sanchez has done well albeit he looked ropey in a couple of games. He was dreadful at Anfield and looked less than assured against Juve. He’s young and he’s learning. He’s not as good as Toby was last season and, defensively, we havent been quite as solid this season.

And Sanchez is a good replacement. What happens when we buy a Dejuan Lovren?

Toby is 29 so still in what should be his peak years. We should not be selling him at this stage unless there is an underlying problem that we, as fans, are not aware of.
 
alekaras said:
Yes, we may sell a Carrick and buy a Zokora, but you ignored my second point: having a team that is greater than the sum of its parts, which is what Poch has been so excellent at developing. So even if we do buy a Zokora, we should be able to cope. And if you think about it, how many teams, even the big ones, are able to replace a key player with someone who has exactly the same impact? When Xavi retired, did Barca find a new Xavi? When Ronaldo left Yanited, did they find a new Ronaldo? They still did OK though and their next season didn't fall apart because they lost those players. Now if we were to sell 4-5 players in one season, that would be a different story. But I just don't see that happening.
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That point has some validity but I still don’t buy it. Poch hasn’t unearthed the keys to guaranteed success here. The system helps but it still needs good players in it.

We swapped out Walker for Aurier. We are weaker in that position. It’s cost is a couple of times this season already. Take Toby out for Sanchez and we’re weaker again although Sanchez could be just as good in a few years. In a couple of years, Jan will be past his best. If in that time we’re selling Dele and, say Kane, you have a gradual erosion over time that will catch up on us because the players we bring in won’t be as good unless we’re exceptionally lucky. The system won’t mask that.

When United lost Ronaldo, they didn’t sell Rooney, Carrick or Vidic the next season. When Barca lost Xavi, they didn’t sell Messi, Iniesta or Pique the next season.

If we continually sell our best players, we’ll weaken ourselves and Pochs management and system will only do so much to make up for it.
 
alekaras said:
Yes, we may sell a Carrick and buy a Zokora, but you ignored my second point: having a team that is greater than the sum of its parts, which is what Poch has been so excellent at developing. So even if we do buy a Zokora, we should be able to cope. And if you think about it, how many teams, even the big ones, are able to replace a key player with someone who has exactly the same impact? When Xavi retired, did Barca find a new Xavi? When Ronaldo left Yanited, did they find a new Ronaldo? They still did OK though and their next season didn't fall apart because they lost those players. Now if we were to sell 4-5 players in one season, that would be a different story. But I just don't see that happening.
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And tonight you saw why Trippier and Sanchez for Walker and Toby will ultimately cost you. The game is fine margins at the level we are aspiring to. You can’t lose your best players because it will catch up with you.
 
DeanoAustin said:
And tonight you saw why Trippier and Sanchez for Walker and Toby will ultimately cost you. The game is fine margins at the level we are aspiring to. You can’t lose your best players because it will catch up with you.
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Sometimes it pays off and sometimes it doesn't
 
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