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Tim Sherwood…gone \o/
- Thread starter Gutter Boy
- Start date
milo
Jack L. Jones
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
I find it really strange that people can be completely back and white when discussing our managers this season. In the real world there are no goodies and baddies but that is the way a lot of the board seems to view things.
We have had a car crash of a season and both managers and everyone behind the scenes is to blame. AVB had his strong points but also some serious flaws, I cannot see how anyone cannot see that. Sherwood is the same, he has done some good work since taking over and making us more of a goal threat was an achievement considering how blunt we looked at the end of last year but his inexperience has shown through and we look very weak at the back.
We also do not have to divide ourselves into AVB or Sherwood camps and if you are doing that, then you are not seeing the full picture.
I find it really strange that people can be completely back and white when discussing our managers this season. In the real world there are no goodies and baddies but that is the way a lot of the board seems to view things.
We have had a car crash of a season and both managers and everyone behind the scenes is to blame. AVB had his strong points but also some serious flaws, I cannot see how anyone cannot see that. Sherwood is the same, he has done some good work since taking over and making us more of a goal threat was an achievement considering how blunt we looked at the end of last year but his inexperience has shown through and we look very weak at the back.
We also do not have to divide ourselves into AVB or Sherwood camps and if you are doing that, then you are not seeing the full picture.
thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
I think this is very fair...I will say that Sherwood's behavior has not endeared me!
I think this is very fair...I will say that Sherwood's behavior has not endeared me!
milo
Jack L. Jones
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
I find his interviews a bit cringe worthy and if it was him who leaked to Sky, I hope Levy tore strips off him. But on the other hand it is not easy being an interim manager and he has kept the points coming in when it would have been easy for everything to fall apart. I am sure that the players no that he is not staying around beyond the end of the season and that makes his job more difficult. I also think that it speaks well of him that in a unstable period we have not heard any voices speaking out from the dressing room.
I find his interviews a bit cringe worthy and if it was him who leaked to Sky, I hope Levy tore strips off him. But on the other hand it is not easy being an interim manager and he has kept the points coming in when it would have been easy for everything to fall apart. I am sure that the players no that he is not staying around beyond the end of the season and that makes his job more difficult. I also think that it speaks well of him that in a unstable period we have not heard any voices speaking out from the dressing room.
glorygloryeze
Tom Huddlestone
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
Hmm not sure about some of that;
a) It was him that asked to be given a longer contract;
b) being an interim in itself is no easier/harder than an actual full-time role; it didn't do Rafa and his reputation much harm last season at Chelski and he was announced to the home crowd as such and to mass booing. In fact it enhanced his reputation: even I liked him after his stint (and I often had lots of looooooong discussions with 'Pool fans about how overrated and boring he was). If Sherwood approached the job with less media bs and perhaps more diligence (eg "oh it worked at home against Soton; let's try it against Liverpool"; constant poor starts) he could have enhanced his reputation even making himself unsackable in Levy's eyes
c) players want to challenge for top 4 AND earn a world cup place; things that made the timing of Sherwood being given the role good for him
d) I suspect Paulinho and Capoue have been quiet dissenting voices (I'm sure there were articles) but perhaps because they know/feel that he is an interim they have not been louder
e) we have often beaten the relegation fodder unconvincingly but been embarrassed almost every time we've played the top 5 under him; St Totteringham day will surely come way before the final day unlike many previous seasons
Hmm not sure about some of that;
a) It was him that asked to be given a longer contract;
b) being an interim in itself is no easier/harder than an actual full-time role; it didn't do Rafa and his reputation much harm last season at Chelski and he was announced to the home crowd as such and to mass booing. In fact it enhanced his reputation: even I liked him after his stint (and I often had lots of looooooong discussions with 'Pool fans about how overrated and boring he was). If Sherwood approached the job with less media bs and perhaps more diligence (eg "oh it worked at home against Soton; let's try it against Liverpool"; constant poor starts) he could have enhanced his reputation even making himself unsackable in Levy's eyes
c) players want to challenge for top 4 AND earn a world cup place; things that made the timing of Sherwood being given the role good for him
d) I suspect Paulinho and Capoue have been quiet dissenting voices (I'm sure there were articles) but perhaps because they know/feel that he is an interim they have not been louder
e) we have often beaten the relegation fodder unconvincingly but been embarrassed almost every time we've played the top 5 under him; St Totteringham day will surely come way before the final day unlike many previous seasons
lurker of old
Ramon Vega
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
So what we're saying is that Sherwood is one of the worst people we could have put in charge, yet he's still better than AVB?
Most managers are as good as their players, and we have some very good players, so Tim has done ok. But not done great, and if we are to get back in the top 4, we need a manager who really really does "great".
So what we're saying is that Sherwood is one of the worst people we could have put in charge, yet he's still better than AVB?
Most managers are as good as their players, and we have some very good players, so Tim has done ok. But not done great, and if we are to get back in the top 4, we need a manager who really really does "great".
glorygloryeze
Tom Huddlestone
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
Still time for us to finish 7th for that assessment to be challenged
Still time for us to finish 7th for that assessment to be challenged
milo
Jack L. Jones
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
I think that you are falling into the black and white trap that I mentioned in an earlier post. Everything that Sherwood has done is not bad, I am not suggesting that it has been all good either. Like his predecessor, it is a mixed bag that means he is unlikely to have the job for much longer.
The slow starts and capitulating to better teams has been an issue all season. I think that there is an issue with a lack of leadership in the team but that predates the current manager.
In our last game the problem was the complete opposite of a slow start. We committed too many men forward in the opening period and left our weak defence exposed.
Interestingly, Arsenal's record against the top teams is very similar to our, the major difference in our points total being our inability to beat them.
I find it hard to believe that you don't think that speculation about a manager's future makes their job harder. You are right that some have managed to overcome that in the past to achieve good results but I doubt that you'd find many football managers that agree with you that it has limited impact.
Hmm not sure about some of that;
a) It was him that asked to be given a longer contract;
b) being an interim in itself is no easier/harder than an actual full-time role; it didn't do Rafa and his reputation much harm last season at Chelski and he was announced to the home crowd as such and to mass booing. In fact it enhanced his reputation: even I liked him after his stint (and I often had lots of looooooong discussions with 'Pool fans about how overrated and boring he was). If Sherwood approached the job with less media bs and perhaps more diligence (eg "oh it worked at home against Soton; let's try it against Liverpool"; constant poor starts) he could have enhanced his reputation even making himself unsackable in Levy's eyes
c) players want to challenge for top 4 AND earn a world cup place; things that made the timing of Sherwood being given the role good for him
d) I suspect Paulinho and Capoue have been quiet dissenting voices (I'm sure there were articles) but perhaps because they know/feel that he is an interim they have not been louder
e) we have often beaten the relegation fodder unconvincingly but been embarrassed almost every time we've played the top 5 under him; St Totteringham day will surely come way before the final day unlike many previous seasons
I think that you are falling into the black and white trap that I mentioned in an earlier post. Everything that Sherwood has done is not bad, I am not suggesting that it has been all good either. Like his predecessor, it is a mixed bag that means he is unlikely to have the job for much longer.
The slow starts and capitulating to better teams has been an issue all season. I think that there is an issue with a lack of leadership in the team but that predates the current manager.
In our last game the problem was the complete opposite of a slow start. We committed too many men forward in the opening period and left our weak defence exposed.
Interestingly, Arsenal's record against the top teams is very similar to our, the major difference in our points total being our inability to beat them.
I find it hard to believe that you don't think that speculation about a manager's future makes their job harder. You are right that some have managed to overcome that in the past to achieve good results but I doubt that you'd find many football managers that agree with you that it has limited impact.
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
Or maybe we need some players to show a little pride and some balls when playing for the club.
TS is far from perfect but the attitude of some of our senior players has totally stunk and some even look to be waiting for the season to end so they can move on.
Or maybe we need some players to show a little pride and some balls when playing for the club.
TS is far from perfect but the attitude of some of our senior players has totally stunk and some even look to be waiting for the season to end so they can move on.
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
a) was it, my understanding is his contract as manager purely coincides with the time left on his previous contract. No extra time added to it.
b) Rafa came in to Chelsea knowing he was gone at the end of the season, so the pressure wasn't the same as someone working towards another year in the job.
c) I haven't seen any of that from our players, in some cases the complete opposite.
d) and neither of them have deserved a run in the team both have been shockingly poor from day one.
e) as have most of the top 6, some have even lost to relegation fodder, that is the way of the league now.
Hmm not sure about some of that;
a) It was him that asked to be given a longer contract;
b) being an interim in itself is no easier/harder than an actual full-time role; it didn't do Rafa and his reputation much harm last season at Chelski and he was announced to the home crowd as such and to mass booing. In fact it enhanced his reputation: even I liked him after his stint (and I often had lots of looooooong discussions with 'Pool fans about how overrated and boring he was). If Sherwood approached the job with less media bs and perhaps more diligence (eg "oh it worked at home against Soton; let's try it against Liverpool"; constant poor starts) he could have enhanced his reputation even making himself unsackable in Levy's eyes
c) players want to challenge for top 4 AND earn a world cup place; things that made the timing of Sherwood being given the role good for him
d) I suspect Paulinho and Capoue have been quiet dissenting voices (I'm sure there were articles) but perhaps because they know/feel that he is an interim they have not been louder
e) we have often beaten the relegation fodder unconvincingly but been embarrassed almost every time we've played the top 5 under him; St Totteringham day will surely come way before the final day unlike many previous seasons
a) was it, my understanding is his contract as manager purely coincides with the time left on his previous contract. No extra time added to it.
b) Rafa came in to Chelsea knowing he was gone at the end of the season, so the pressure wasn't the same as someone working towards another year in the job.
c) I haven't seen any of that from our players, in some cases the complete opposite.
d) and neither of them have deserved a run in the team both have been shockingly poor from day one.
e) as have most of the top 6, some have even lost to relegation fodder, that is the way of the league now.
mudshark
Chris Armstrong
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
Fairly damning in terms of our credibility as genuine CL contenders
Code:
[FONT=lucida console]Mini-league P W D L F A GD Pt
---------------------------------------
Chelsea 7 5 2 0 16 3 13 17
Emirates Marketing Project 8 4 1 3 23 12 11 13
Liverpool 7 4 0 3 19 9 10 12
Arsenal 8 3 2 3 9 18 -9 11
Tottenham 8 0 1 7 2 27 -25 1[/FONT]Fairly damning in terms of our credibility as genuine CL contenders
Hootnow
Jermaine Jenas
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
That's an absolutely disgusting table.
Though slightly biased considering it completely excludes the 2 top 7 teams we have picked points up from....
That's an absolutely disgusting table.
Though slightly biased considering it completely excludes the 2 top 7 teams we have picked points up from....
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Roland Beurre
Tony Parks
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
His reign will soon be over and he will give up the reins. It never rains but it paws ...
Would you rather have Pleat back?
His reign will soon be over and he will give up the reins. It never rains but it paws ...
Would you rather have Pleat back?
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
Well obviously is good to beat your rivals, but the only table that really matters is the actual one. Historically we have never been that great against 'the big 4' (albeit beat at least one of them at home) yet managed to come 4th. Its just as much of a challenge to beat all the teams you're expected to beat who just come and park the bus, and more teams fall into that category. 'Credibilty to be CL contenders' is more about consistency than just beating Chelsea, Emirates Marketing Project et al.....
Well obviously is good to beat your rivals, but the only table that really matters is the actual one. Historically we have never been that great against 'the big 4' (albeit beat at least one of them at home) yet managed to come 4th. Its just as much of a challenge to beat all the teams you're expected to beat who just come and park the bus, and more teams fall into that category. 'Credibilty to be CL contenders' is more about consistency than just beating Chelsea, Emirates Marketing Project et al.....
Cochise
Steve Carr
mudshark
Chris Armstrong
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
We're even lower in that one, in case you hadn't noticed
We're even lower in that one, in case you hadn't noticed
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
Can someone add in Everton to that table so we can compare, we have taken 4pts off them this season.
We're even lower in that one, in case you hadn't noticed
Can someone add in Everton to that table so we can compare, we have taken 4pts off them this season.
mudshark
Chris Armstrong
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
^^
^^
Code:
Mini-league P W D L F A GD Pt
---------------------------------------
Chelsea 9 6 2 1 17 4 13 20
Liverpool 9 5 1 3 26 12 14 16
Emirates Marketing Project 9 5 1 3 26 13 13 16
Arsenal 10 3 3 4 10 22 -12 12
Everton 9 2 3 4 9 13 -4 9
Tottenham 10 1 2 7 3 27 -24 5Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
So still pretty poor but does tally up with our current league position. I would assume if you took it a step further to include Man Utd we'd sit in 6th.
So still pretty poor but does tally up with our current league position. I would assume if you took it a step further to include Man Utd we'd sit in 6th.
mudshark
Chris Armstrong
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
^^ Correct. If there were no top 4, we'd be league leaders, though:
Edit: as another bit of fun, here's the London Derby league as well:
^^ Correct. If there were no top 4, we'd be league leaders, though:
Code:
Mini-league P W D L F A GD Pt
---------------------------------------
Tottenham 26 18 5 3 46 21 25 59
Everton 27 17 7 3 46 22 24 58
Man United 25 16 4 5 53 24 29 52
Southampton 26 12 7 7 44 27 17 43
Saudi Sportswashing Machine 28 13 3 12 34 40 -6 42
Crystal Palace 28 11 4 13 24 31 -7 37
West Ham 27 10 6 11 33 29 4 36
Stoke 26 9 9 8 30 33 -3 36
Hull 26 9 6 11 31 27 4 33
Swansea 26 8 7 11 35 32 3 31
Norwich 29 8 7 14 23 34 -11 31
Fulham 26 9 3 14 28 48 -20 30
West Brom 27 6 11 10 32 39 -7 29
Cardiff 27 6 8 13 20 40 -20 26
Aston Villa 26 6 6 14 24 39 -15 24
Sunderland 26 5 7 14 21 38 -17 22Edit: as another bit of fun, here's the London Derby league as well:
Code:
Mini-league P W D L F A GD Pt
---------------------------------------
Arsenal 10 8 1 1 17 9 8 25
Chelsea 10 6 3 1 21 4 17 21
Tottenham 8 3 1 4 6 11 -5 10
West Ham 8 2 1 5 9 12 -3 7
Fulham 8 2 0 6 9 17 -8 6
Crystal Palace 8 2 0 6 4 13 -9 6
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