Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

BS mate, if the right offer came, Pool would have sold Suarez (and there is no guarantee he will stay this summer)

United sold Ronaldo .. that's all you need to know.

They probably would, but they (like everyone else) were perfectly within their rights to force him to stay. Had they done that even when a 100million offer came in, they would still be sitting top of the league right now. Had they buckled and let him go, they would not. If you were a liverpool fan, which of those situations would you prefer?

The same points above stand for Ronaldo but replace sitting top of the league with winning the champions league. The difference with Ronaldo is that at United he was probably already at one of the top 3 clubs in the world, so his wanting to move on was purely a personal thing. His love of Madrid was so strong he probably would have run his United contract down and gone for free.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Liverpool took a big risk in keeping Suarez after some of the trouble and embarrassment he has caused the club since he has been there. Credit must go to rodgers and the owners......if Suarez had done the same at Spurs and a club came knocking with 40 big ones then im sure Levy would have bitten their arm off and got rid

I suppose this is the crux of my point put much better than I thought of putting it!

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

should Levy have stuck with Ramos after the 2pts from 8??? or Jol after his poor start to the 2007-08 season??

No I don't think so. Jol I loved but probably had to go because there was no sense he was building something long term and he struggled without a Carrick replacement. I dare say he wasn't backed / didn't work well with Commoli so it was best for all concerned that he went.

Ramos...I'm maybe in the minority but I think he could have had more time. Back him like we backed Harry that window and I'm sure we wouldn't have got relegated...we sold 40 goals from his cup winning team and not surprisingly struggled. Give him that season to imbed his ideas, and make a proper crack at it the season after.

Both those guys left us near the bottom of the league though and replacements were available and willing to come before we had developed a reputation as a basket case club. We sack the latest manager 8 points from the top of the league 4 months after the squad had a ridiculous amount of change. He completely deserved more time to me or at least less suspicion from on high.

Sherwood is a different case because he isn't qualified or experienced where as LvG is...and if the opportunity was there to bring LvG in we'd be macarons not to take it. But Sherwood should have never had the job in the first place.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

you have to accept though, BoL, that many supporters felt similar about AvB - im on your side in that i wanted him given more time but there were plenty who felt things wouldn't have worked out.

and if what is said about his attitude when in the meeting after the Liverpool game was true then i can certainly see why he was let go, regardless.

 

[indianspur]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

No I don't think so. Jol I loved but probably had to go because there was no sense he was building something long term and he struggled without a Carrick replacement. I dare say he wasn't backed / didn't work well with Commoli so it was best for all concerned that he went.

Ramos...I'm maybe in the minority but I think he could have had more time. Back him like we backed Harry that window and I'm sure we wouldn't have got relegated...we sold 40 goals from his cup winning team and not surprisingly struggled. Give him that season to imbed his ideas, and make a proper crack at it the season after.

Both those guys left us near the bottom of the league though and replacements were available and willing to come before we had developed a reputation as a basket case club. We sack the latest manager 8 points from the top of the league 4 months after the squad had a ridiculous amount of change. He completely deserved more time to me or at least less suspicion from on high.

Sherwood is a different case because he isn't qualified or experienced where as LvG is...and if the opportunity was there to bring LvG in we'd be macarons not to take it. But Sherwood should have never had the job in the first place.

maybe he would have been given more of a chance had he not fallen out with Freund, or had he not dumped Ade with the kids, or had he not openly questioned and clashed with the medical dept after the Lloris incident. It was strange that we parted with a manager whilst 8 pts from the top after 4 months of the season, but circumstances dictated that there had to be a meeting and it seems AVB was fine in leaving. I do think in AVBs case that had he shown a bit more humility and willingness not to be so confrontational with those around him then Levy would have continued with him

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

you have to accept though, BoL, that many supporters felt similar about AvB - im on your side in that i wanted him given more time but there were plenty who felt things wouldn't have worked out.

and if what is said about his attitude when in the meeting after the Liverpool game was true then i can certainly see why he was let go, regardless.

I don't mind that, I'm not denying that he wanted out and as such he wouldn't have exactly been begging for his job post Liverpool.

My concern is how we treated him before that game. The reason he wanted out, because that is kicked into motion a fair while before. It appears we treated him as a disposable resource, thinking 'we have the 2-tier structure and transfer committee, meaning we never have to defer too much to a coach that may leave us and ensuring long term stability'. Which is fine. If you can't work with the coach anymore and he can't work with you, best to part ways. But surely, the caveat to that is to maybe not write the entire season off after spending over £100M and see if there are other coaches available first? And if there aren't, maybe just agree to let him be, see where it leads, and if it works out then great. If not, it's not as if the YTS coach is going to really do any better with a squad that wasn't built for him is he?

The reason Sherwood was given a bash is clearly because he's close to Levy, he's forthright and opinionated and was another reactionary change. Only he couldn't even get to the end of the season before it all went tits up for him. If this guy was our only option, should we not have treated the actual manager we had in place better in the first instance? Whatever people think about him, he was treated as a disposable resource when in actual fact, until the end of the season at least, he was a valuable one.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Whilst I am happy that it seems TS will not be kept on after the end of the season, you have to wonder why was it announced now?
I know we effectively sacked BMJ before a EL game and that stank, but this seems different in that there is no need to get a new coach in at this stage.

For me, either

a) there is an 'anti-TS' faction high up the chain in the club who has decided to leak this to the press to humiliate TS as much as possible

b) the decision has been taken already with TS' full knowledge (perhaps prior to the Liverpool game, hence TS 'not being bovvered anymore' and sitting up in the stands) and someone in the 'pro-TS' camp has decided to leak it now to make the club look crap and gain maximum sympathy for TS in the eys of fans/media.

Not sure that season ticket renewals are that much of a factor: would it really make that much of a difference on that front to announce now TS is going, compared to announcing it mid-May?

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

maybe he would have been given more of a chance had he not fallen out with Freund, or had he not dumped Ade with the kids, or had he not openly questioned and clashed with the medical dept after the Lloris incident. It was strange that we parted with a manager whilst 8 pts from the top after 4 months of the season, but circumstances dictated that there had to be a meeting and it seems AVB was fine in leaving. I do think in AVBs case that had he shown a bit more humility and willingness not to be so confrontational with those around him then Levy would have continued with him

I don't think the Ade thing counts. It's an entirely reasonable management decision to leave a player out if you think he is disrupting your authority. Not a reason to be sacked.

I don't know enough about the Freund or Medical Staff relationships to comment except what I have read. Apparently AVB wanted the medical staff replaced. I have no idea why he fell out with Freund or even if he really did to a serious extent. But he was very keen on giving Freund opportunities to showcase himself in the first season so if something happened, maybe it wasn't all big bad AVB being mean? Maybe there were two sides there?

No need to go over it all again, but considering Sherwood hasn't even made it to the end of the season it just reinforces how bad the decision making has been here.

 

[Yiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Everyone says these managers were the wrong choices yet alot of people wanted them at the time (Apart from Sherwood) then they get sacked after everyone called for their head and you complain about that? I know football fans are notoriously fickle but Levy cannot win either way.

 

[Reggie_Mentalist]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Everyone says these managers were the wrong choices yet alot of people wanted them at the time (Apart from Sherwood) then they get sacked after everyone called for their head and you complain about that? I know football fans are notoriously fickle but Levy cannot win either way.

Maybe Levy could win IF he gave 100% support to his managers..rather than buy players that the manager don't want/need...just sayin'

 

[Baleforce]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Everyone says these managers were the wrong choices yet alot of people wanted them at the time (Apart from Sherwood) then they get sacked after everyone called for their head and you complain about that? I know football fans are notoriously fickle but Levy cannot win either way.

course he can, he just has to hire the right guy and let him sign the right players

 

[Baleforce]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I've said it before but I think it's pertinent to the last few pages, I think by the city the game AVB going was inevitable, even if we had won that game he'd still have been out soon after, the damage was done in the summer, I expect the proverbial straw was selling Bale

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Timmeh and Les were the only two of Redknapp's staff, other than Parks, not to be fired. Blimey even Clive Allen, Ian Broomfield and Paul Senior went in that clear out. It must have been a conscious decision by Levy, for some reason, to retain them.

At xmas I would have gone for Hoddle under a very similar remit to Benitez had at Chelsea last season. They'd learnt their lesson re Di Matteo, though unfortunately we didn't.

I've said before but I don't think Timmeh got an 18 month contract - there was 18 months left on his existing one, so I expect he has just been 'working up' on that.

The one thing Levy has absolutely nailed is lowering our expectations. In summer 2012 Benitez, Martinez or Moyes would probably have been unacceptable appointments. Now were at a stage of anyone but…

No. He got an 18 month contract. Trust me. Hoddle was discussed but not a real option in the end, because Glenn wouldn't gave taken such a deal, he'd have wanted proper time, guarantees and it would've been a lot harder to **** him off in the summer for DL's latest dream-boat. So never really going to happen given the summer plan...

Frighteningly, Levy was undecided as to whether to go with Sherwood or not as little as 5 weeks ago; recent weeks have swayed his opinion. Again, this is as much about him wrapping his head around the type of support a Spurs manager should get. It's all very fine saying we spent this and that, but the facts are that AVB was robbed of one of the world's top 5 players mid-summer and had not been given players HE wanted for two summers in a row. Whether we all think (say) Hulk is worth 35 mill is irrelevant. IF you back a manager then you have to give him what HE wants, not what the DoF thinks will work for several managers as a compromise. If, indeed, Van Gaal steps in as I expect he will, then it will be imperative that Levy sticks to whatever word he has given him and his reps. And if Van Gaal wanted (for example) Huntelaar (I am NOT saying he does, just throwing it out there as a name) then he should be given every possibility to sign him and close the deal early.

What's been fascinating about Sherwood is that he genuinely seems to have believed he was staying for there full 18. Levy gave him EVERY opportunity to make this time a success, including offering him Berbatov on a short-term. This would've got Sherwood an extra 6 points I believe PLUS made his record look good enough to keep him on. We should be grateful that Tim took the stubborn route and refused January help.

I didn't like him when he was appointed. I knew some things about him which I did not care for. But I gave him my full support as our manager, and swore I'd wait to see what he could do. He's shown us all. I believe in years to come, if he can learn from this experience, he could be a decent manager, but he is clearly n to ever going to be a Martinez or Rodgers. I thank him for bringing in Bentaleb, who I think will develop into a marvelous player for us. But I am glad Levy has seen sense...

In 2012, Martinez would've been a FANTASTIC appointment. I'm not sure what you're saying there.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Clearly, there was; I, for one, couldn't disagree with Sherwood there at all, and in fact, I've been saying all season that we've too many technically average players. On the other hand, if I were Levy, I might consider myself entitled to ask why, if that's the case, I was being flannelled in December and January that the squad was good enough for top 4.

No no, we have a lot of technically excellent players who are poorly prepared and poorly focussed, not to mention poorly deployed. We have two glaring weak spots which oppositions exploit with glee (left back/CB) but nobody is going to tell me that Younes Kaboul is less technically gifted than Martin Skrtel, however anyone can correctly point out that Martin Skrtel has been given confidence, purpose and guidance to amplify what he has got. BTW, I'm not a high fan of Townsend, but in order for the boy to play well he needs to play regularly. Picking players like Sigurdsson to go in the centre and pushing Eriksen wide when HE should be in the centre is a joke. In fact, HERE'S the side which, if prepared, could've done a number on Liverpool.

Lloris

Naughton
Kaboul
Vertonghen
Fryers

Sandro

Chadli
Bentaleb
Townsend

Eriksen

Soldado


I don't think it requires enormous ability to see that woking a little better than what he put out there (of then players that were fit) and to make bloody sure that Townsend and Chadli are aware of EXACTLY what is required of them defensively...

 

[Chachaboom]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Everyone says these managers were the wrong choices yet alot of people wanted them at the time (Apart from Sherwood) then they get sacked after everyone called for their head and you complain about that? I know football fans are notoriously fickle but Levy cannot win either way.

Can't remember many people wanting AVB or Santini. Ramos yes because his Seville side looked so good with there attacking football.

Most people where just baffled by avb's appointment but feared another car crash because of what happened at Chelsea.

We didn't exactly get a car crash but it wasn't long before the RAC got a call out.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

As above it makes no sense. Looks like Spurs just didnt want to have another "breaking new manager sacked" and we are letting everyone know now what is going to happen. It is still a sacking though, as he had an 18 month contract and will only be doing 10 months or whatever it is.

Now the players know they are not fighting for their places as a new man will be in charge next season they wont care. Tim won't care if he wins or not, it's a silly decision and would have preferred the sacking at the end of the season.

MY guess is it's Sherwood's side leaking it to take pressure off him for what might happen...Levy doesn't do this. He just swoops like an owl.

 

[Baleforce]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I was all over AVB, he was clear top of my list, don't think I was the only one

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

and theres more... Redflap junior has really let rip at Levy and Baldini :ross:....some truth in what he says, but plenty of sour grapes too :lol: .......... Former Spurs midfield Jamie Redknapp told Sky Sports News that the decision leaves Spurs in "disarray" and that it is astonishing that Sherwood could be axed while Director of Football Baldini - responsible for bringing in a number of players including £30million flop Erik Lamela after the £85m sale of Gareth Bale to Real Madrid - keeps his.

"If it is the case that Tim is going to be leaving, I think he has been [harshly treated]," said Sky Sports pundit Redknapp. "Tim is a friend of mine - I've known him for many, many years - and he is a genuine football person.

EDIT


"Van Gaal, Pochettino - they're good managers; they're not silly. They'll look at this and say 'I've got a good reputation at the moment, I could go to Tottenham and really struggle,' and knowing that you don't get a great deal of support; that's not the sort of club that gives a manager a great deal of time and your reputation could be as high as kite and then go to Tottenham, lose a couple of games, get sacked and all of a sudden you're scrapping around for another job."

I hope he never gets a comp ticket for anything close to White Hart Lane again. ****er.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Whilst I am happy that it seems TS will not be kept on after the end of the season, you have to wonder why was it announced now?
I know we effectively sacked BMJ before a EL game and that stank, but this seems different in that there is no need to get a new coach in at this stage.

For me, either

a) there is an 'anti-TS' faction high up the chain in the club who has decided to leak this to the press to humiliate TS as much as possible

b) the decision has been taken already with TS' full knowledge (perhaps prior to the Liverpool game, hence TS 'not being bovvered anymore' and sitting up in the stands) and someone in the 'pro-TS' camp has decided to leak it now to make the club look crap and gain maximum sympathy for TS in the eys of fans/media.

Not sure that season ticket renewals are that much of a factor: would it really make that much of a difference on that front to announce now TS is going, compared to announcing it mid-May?

I am going to bet that this leak will have come from Sherwood's camp...this is simply not how Levy operates. In fact, I'd say he's furious about it. Think about it, he's never ever 'leaked' anything like that before...no, this smacks of Timbo self-protecting. We all feel sorry for a lame-duck who's 'never really had the chairman's support' right/ I mean, look at Redknapp's motormouth taking off in the media, strangely well-prepared for a big old Levy bashing session right off the back of this 'exclusive'...there are some slimey ****ers lurking...onen thing you can never say about Levy is that he pulls this sort of ****. He's ruthless and more often than not impetuous, but he doesn't do this sort of stuff...

 

[Cochise]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

The media are kicking up a storm because their latest hope of a top tier manager who is English has failed, but fortunately for them they can sink their teeth into our club. Only reason I can think of for the announcement being made now is that we have finalised the deal for a new coach. i can't imagine us making the same mistake again by sacking one guy without having a permanent fixture lined up. Maybe people like Gullit were right and LVG has been the man since December and Sherwood was the stop gap.

I was happy to back the bloke when he came in but have lost hope with the guy over recent weeks and especially after the "Tottenham don't beat the top teams" comment a few days ago. The man could be a good coach in a few years time but he needs to finish his badges and start again in the Championship or with a lower end EPL club.

I'm looking at it this way. We can't afford to waste the current talent at the club on a manager who might never actually do anything. I'm not saying we need a quick fix, more that we need an experienced coach who can get us somewhere in the 2015/2016 season. Then again Martinez looks like he is going to have Everton in the top 4 after just one season in the job with only a single pre season to establish a new system.