• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

Do you want Tim Sherwood to stay as manager?


  • Total voters
    125
  • Poll closed .
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

The whole 442 has been done death. Its not like each player has they're I've part of the pitchb to stick to. At any point in a match you can see is going 443 or dropping back into a 451 when defending.

IMO top 4 is sown up. I just want some good stuff to watch from here on in. I don't think Sherwood is as dim as some make him out to be.

I like....

Soldado Ade
Eriksen Dembele Lennon
Beast

Wonky diamond ala modric or...

Soldodo/Are
Eriksen Lamala. Lennon
Dembele
Beast
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

My thoughts are pretty well summed up in this article:
http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2008/dec/18/4231-442-tactics-jonathan-wilson

Especially the bit at the end about midfield flexibility. The 4-3-3/4-2-3-1/4-5-1 can become so many other formations with an individual's role changing very little and with very few adjustments to allow that. I don't believe the same can be said about 4-4-2 - mainly because of the way the midfield is set out. A player like Ade can drop deep to make a 4-5-1 or a 4-4-1-1 but that's not the same as the Eriksen/Siggy type that would normally inhabit that role. The 'wonky' goes some way to solving that problem - it allows you to play a creator-type without using one of your midfield two roles for it. Problem is, if that creator is tucked into the midfield to make up numbers then they're not where they can do the most danger in transition from defence to attack. One of your strikers is also likely to be out very wide to cover the width that your creator has left when tucking in to make up numbers.

Thanks Scara, that is an excellent article and I urge others to have a read, if only because he says:

"Everybody still referred to it as 4-4-2, but it was in effect a 4-2-3-1" and "many 4-4-2s were effectively 4-2-3-1s"

I.e. we don't need to get so hung up on the numbers, it is more about the players used in those positions.

If you play Sandro and Capoue in the centre of a 442 that is entirely different to playing Holtby and Eriksen in the centre, so the numbers 442 or whatever are not so relevant for me, other than 3 at the back or 4 at the back.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I think that article does ring true. People either prefer the Good Old English 442 manager way or the tactical foreign coach and can never see the merits of the other. What is funny seeing is the double standards that people apply to support their arguments. It's quite plain to see on here those who didn't want AVB in, who have dogmatically stuck to their views on him, using every single stick to beat him with. ie With regards to asking the fans to be louder, he wasn't criticising us, he was passing on an opinion that the players themselves had expressed. Yet when fan favourite 'Arry told us that " Spurs fans were stupid, as good as it gets" etc he wasn't torn into as bad as AVB was despite what he said being a lot less constructive and more offensive.

I myself was found in two minds about Sherwoods appointment. Firstly I thought he would be a good coach despite his experence, as I had heard that He and Ramsey had done wonders with the youth team and playing a 4-5-1 variation. However I never liked him personally due the way he behaved when he was a player with us, his blatant arsenal connections and him being associated to a period of time when we were frankly quite crap. However when he came out playing the way he did in the first game I started doubting him as a coach and tactician. Now they youth team are back to playing 4-4-2 and believe that this will be a major regression tactically as this formation, especially when playing with no DM, is nullified to easily now. It seems like he is the exact polar opposite of AVB, whether by purpose or design. The ideal thing would be to have someone like Klopp who is smack bang in the middle of the two.


I will never take to Sherwood, but I am a Spurs fan, and will continue supporting regardless of who the manager is.

Debateable. Inglethorpe and McDermott did wonders with the youth team. Timmeh only took over 18 months ago.

And we first started playing 4-3-3 across the youth teams when AVB arrived, presumably on his direction.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Good article and amusing.

The points he makes, however enveloped in tongue in cheek stereotyping are spot on IMO.

As to when it happened - dare i venture the theory that football now is just a reflection of our wider society:

1) The haves and have not - in football's case that those with CL football pocketing small fortunes year in year out, or those with super-rich benefactors bank-rolling their success and those clubs that like it or not simply target a stay at the top table, perenially battling to be the best of the worst. the gap between the 'haves' and 'have nots' of football is ever widening as the gap between the rich and poor in our wider society is also growing.

Football in the dim and distant past was a game that was supported primarily by the lower classes, and played by guys from the lower and middle classes, but football as we know it changed when the money began pouring in via Sky and the premier league initially.

With clubs with more money than sense, there arose the culture of the 'superstar' player with a lot of players getting rich in a short space of time, which significantly changed players attitude to the beautiful game. No longer was it all about the glory of individual clubs, but more and more about how most players could maximise their earnings. Suddenly football in this country was not just a game for the lower middle classes but bathed in the avalanche of media money it's appeal opened up to a larger proportion of the population. This influx of different varieties of fans has inevitably led to widening opinions on the football being played - and an inevitable consequence of this is the 'entertainment' at all costs culture where if a team is struggling for results its the manager that takes the fall, for some poor other sap to come in and try and fix things.

Like it or not, football in this country has tried to progress from the level of 'hit it and hope', 'blood and guts'. 'physical over technical' ability, through a combination of an influx of foreign managers into the premier league bringing with them a more continental / refined style of play, helped in no small part by the influx of foreign players into the premier league, raising the standard of the premier league.

this has inevitably led to a division of fans between those that loved the old ways the game was played in this country, by british players for british fans, falling back at times to extremes of xenophobia (we don't trust foreign managers over homegrown managers who have grown up in our game and in not trusting foreign players), to those fans at the other extreme welcome the progression forward of our beautiful game embracing the foreign styles of play and new and innovative foreign managers who are more intellectual and tactical and don't just rely on the 'run about a bit' footballing philosophy.

Whether we like it or not that is the state of football in this country, made worse by the fact that the grass roots - even those levels just below the EPL, are still very much entrenched in the old-style of English football, with most clubs not having the benefit of the torrent of cash that has flooded the EPL and therefore not being able to fund any kind of revolution, if not evolution in style.

So where does that take us in relation to Tim - well he is an intelligent man whether you a a fan believe that or not. He says the right things which he thinks the average fan (and by average i mean the 'common' mans view) can understand. For me, for the EPL, football is a simple game for the most part overcomplicated by some people. you just have to look at the quality of the player to understand that sometimes simple things are the best way to get the best out of players. that doesn't mean that a little tweak here or there cannot make a huge difference, but for the most part if you can get 'round pegs in round holes' you'll not go too far wrong. Tim is on a hiding to nothing at the moment, so it's not in his interest to 'rock the boat' too much right now but 'steady the ship' and get us back on an even keel and then see where we can go from there.

You look at the best managers in the EPL era - the fergusons, the Wengers, the mourinho - they all had one thing in common and that was a fantastic bunch of players, with a solid system of play. We have a good bunch of individuals at spurs we just need to get them playing as a team better and the results will follow. If Tim can do that for us great, because in the short-term we don't have many options.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Debateable. Inglethorpe and McDermott did wonders with the youth team. Timmeh only took over 18 months ago.

And we first started playing 4-3-3 across the youth teams when AVB arrived, presumably on his direction.

shame he never bothered checking out any youth games

i highly doubt Levy would have given a simple head coach the power to control how all our teams played
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Didn't he?

Note: The Under-19s (NextGen Series side) and Under-21s tended to play a free-flowing 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 under Sherwood, so there’s no indication that he favours 4-4-2 as a system per se. Many have said that this was at the insistence of AVB, but we’d been playing the same system(s) pre-AVB, and I personally never saw AVB at one of the matches, so I find that unlikely.

http://windycoys.com/2013/12/what-a-difference-a-week-makes/
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Without wishing in any way to tempt fate, a win on Saturday against Crystal Palace would give Tim Sherwood 13 Premier League points from a maximum possible 15 (86.67% won of those on offer).

And with Swansea City next up, there's an excellent chance to improve that record even further.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Without wishing in any way to tempt fate, a win on Saturday against Crystal Palace would give Tim Sherwood 13 Premier League points from a maximum possible 15 (86.67% won of those on offer).

And with Swansea City next up, there's an excellent chance to improve that record even further.

But you have tempted fate. Silly boy!
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Without wishing in any way to tempt fate, a win on Saturday against Crystal Palace would give Tim Sherwood 13 Premier League points from a maximum possible 15 (86.67% won of those on offer).

And with Swansea City next up, there's an excellent chance to improve that record even further.

Tim is already statistically the best Spurs EPL manager in the history of the world.

I think he can get betterer!
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Tim is already statistically the best Spurs EPL manager in the history of the world.

I think he can get betterer!

The funny thing is that his detractors are insisting that it's too small a sample to reach any conclusions about his abilities.

But you can bet your house that these same people would be baying for his blood if his record was any poorer.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

The funny thing is that his detractors are insisting that it's too small a sample to reach any conclusions about his abilities.

But you can bet your house that these same people would be baying for his blood if his record was any poorer.

No more so than his supporters ( if we are going to put people into 'camps) are using every such bit of weak anecdotal evidence in his support. Each side is picking and choosing to fit e.g one ITK rumour to say how unpopular at the club AVB was and then the windy coys article to say AVB never went to reserve games but no mention that the same article says how popular AVB was at the club. There is a lot of childish name calling going on on both sides so the Pro side have no high horse to get on.

And 5 games is statistically an insignificant sample size to use. That just is mathematical.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

No more so than his supporters ( if we are going to put people into 'camps) are using every such bit of weak anecdotal evidence in his support. Each side is picking and choosing to fit e.g one ITK rumour to say how unpopular at the club AVB was and then the windy coys article to say AVB never went to reserve games but no mention that the same article says how popular AVB was at the club. There is a lot of childish name calling going on on both sides so the Pro side have no high horse to get on.

And 5 games is statistically an insignificant sample size to use. That just is mathematical.

If people are forming camps then I would have thought the only sensible one to be in at this stage was a wait and see one.

We do not know enough about Sherwood as a coach or where he sees the team in the future and there are too few results for any meaningful statistical analysis. Forming a cogent view is nigh on impossible. This is why it is largely a continuation of the AVB v Redknapp arguments that have plagued this board for a while.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

No more so than his supporters ( if we are going to put people into 'camps) are using every such bit of weak anecdotal evidence in his support. Each side is picking and choosing to fit e.g one ITK rumour to say how unpopular at the club AVB was and then the windy coys article to say AVB never went to reserve games but no mention that the same article says how popular AVB was at the club. There is a lot of childish name calling going on on both sides so the Pro side have no high horse to get on.

And 5 games is statistically an insignificant sample size to use. That just is mathematical.

Quite right, that's why it bothered me when people always said that about AVB, he only had just over a season. That too wasn't a big enough sample size when saying he was our most successful manager in terms of points.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Quite right, that's why it bothered me when people always said that about AVB, he only had just over a season. That too wasn't a big enough sample size when saying he was our most successful manager in terms of points.

I think that a full season is a fair sample size
 
Back