Thomas Frank - Head Coach

[harr1984]

We have an improved squad compared to last season. Made this point before, but even more so compared to the start of last season.

We do have injuries for sure and for sure that's impacting us. Then again, injuries were a huge factor last season.

I'm not saying Frank shouldn't get time. But he needs to show improvements. This has been true all season and although there have been some positive signs overall I'm not seeing much from the start of the season until now.

Frank clearly prioritised defensive solidity and set pieces over just about everything else since he came in the door. Leaving us at times looking rather clueless on the ball. For sure we have weaknesses in the squad, for sure we have injury issues. But what we've seen in possession so far this season is also a result of Frank's priorities.

He's stated repeatedly that he wants to play with risk, that he also wants to play good attacking football. That needs to be shown on the pitch and not just in words sooner or later.

At the end of the transfer window everyone was saying we'd had a good window and improved the squad. No one was close to suggesting it as worse than last season. But at the moment there seems to be a real thirst from some for coming up with anything except accepting that it's somewhat on Frank for this turgid brand of football this is being served up at the moment....

 

[Bedfordspurs]

At the end of the transfer window everyone was saying we'd had a good window and improved the squad. No one was close to suggesting it as worse than last season. But at the moment there seems to be a real thirst from some for coming up with anything except accepting that it's somewhat on Frank for this turgid brand of football this is being served up at the moment....

If he was a less likeable guy I do wonder how he would be treated with this kind of football
The press/media love him
And he always comes across classy and respectful
It’s another reason I wanted him

 

[glasgowspur]

We had Kulu, Maddison, Solanke plus a shed load of otbers out at points last season - at any point in time we are going to have 'when player x,y and z returns' conversations. The point is having added Muani,Palinha, Simons and Kudus the squad is not in a worse position than last season when apparently it wasn't the squad that was the issue,,,,

Remember when it was any manager could do better with this squad, all it needed was pragmatic management.
Remember the cries of sack ange and we'll climb the table.
Or the when our defence is back we'll stop conceding chances and goals.
Ange was sacked and rightly so, but the issues go much deeper than the manager.
The faces change, nothing else has since at least the last season of Poch.
We've watched the same show under Jose, conte, nuno and now Frank.
There was hope under Poch and a brief flicker with ange, but generally we've been watching the same show with different actors.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Remember when it was any manager could do better with this squad, all it needed was pragmatic management.
Remember the cries of sack ange and we'll climb the table.
Or the when our defence is back we'll stop conceding chances and goals.
Ange was sacked and rightly so, but the issues go much deeper than the manager.
The faces change, nothing else has since at least the last season of Poch.
We've watched the same show under Jose, conte, nuno and now Frank.
There was hope under Poch and a brief flicker with ange, but generally we've been watching the same show with different actors.

Different actors and the same director
Until now
And I do think the expectation that the Lewis’s will spend more is key. I doubt them myself but we will see soon

 

[Baleforce]

Remember when it was any manager could do better with this squad, all it needed was pragmatic management.
Remember the cries of sack ange and we'll climb the table.
Or the when our defence is back we'll stop conceding chances and goals.
Ange was sacked and rightly so, but the issues go much deeper than the manager.
The faces change, nothing else has since at least the last season of Poch.
We've watched the same show under Jose, conte, nuno and now Frank.
There was hope under Poch and a brief flicker with ange, but generally we've been watching the same show with different actors.

We are doing better, much much better.

We are conceding fewer chances and picking up more points.

It’s still a work in progress, but we are far from the absolute embarrassment that we were last season.

 

[harr1984]

Remember when it was any manager could do better with this squad, all it needed was pragmatic management.
Remember the cries of sack ange and we'll climb the table.
Or the when our defence is back we'll stop conceding chances and goals.
Ange was sacked and rightly so, but the issues go much deeper than the manager.
The faces change, nothing else has since at least the last season of Poch.
We've watched the same show under Jose, conte, nuno and now Frank.
There was hope under Poch and a brief flicker with ange, but generally we've been watching the same show with different actors.

Exactly. Which is why I want Frank given time as we will just end up doing the same dance with someone else. But there is no escaping the fact the football has to improve....

 

[harr1984]

We are doing better, much much better.

We are conceding fewer chances and picking up more points.

It’s still a work in progress, but we are far from the absolute embarrassment that we were last season.

Our 'expected position' in the league table was 16th a few weeks ago and it wouldn't have got any better since. The underlying data is poor, and it tends to catch up with you even if we are doing 'ok' in 9th.

And our defence has started looking poor leaking goals again (after a generous start to the season we now have a more difficult period of fixtures) so we don't even have the 'At least the base is solid' argument to fall back on anymore...

 

[glasgowspur]

We are doing better, much much better.

We are conceding fewer chances and picking up more points.

It’s still a work in progress, but we are far from the absolute embarrassment that we were last season.

Are we conceding less chances, if bodo (a championship level side supposedly) Monaco or Chelsea had taken their we would have been shellacked.
Not to harp on specifically about ange but as he was our last manager it's context, were we this badly off after the same amount of games in either of his seasons?
I'm not getting at frank, I don't think he is the whole problem, but this cycle is worrying.

 

[Baleforce]

Our 'expected position' in the league table was 16th a few weeks ago and it wouldn't have got any better since. The underlying data is poor, and it tends to catch up with you even if we are doing 'ok' in 9th.

And our defence has started looking poor leaking goals again (after a generous start to the season we now have a more difficult period of fixtures) so we don't even have the 'At least the base is solid' argument to fall back on anymore...

We are 12 games in and we’ve recently played what are by far the two best teams in the league in Chelsea and arsenal.

We are a far better side than we were last season imo, and even though the plan on Sunday blew up, spectacularly, at least there was a plan.

Frank needs time. We’ve not even played 1/3 of the season yet.

 

[Baleforce]

Are we conceding less chances, if bodo (a championship level side supposedly) Monaco or Chelsea had taken their we would have been shellacked.
Not to harp on specifically about ange but as he was our last manager it's context, were we this badly off after the same amount of games in either of his seasons?
I'm not getting at frank, I don't think he is the whole problem, but this cycle is worrying.

Our xGA is much lower.

 

[glasgowspur]

We are 12 games in and we’ve recently played what are by far the two best teams in the league in Chelsea and arsenal.

We are a far better side than we were last season imo, and even though the plan on Sunday blew up, spectacularly, at least there was a plan.

Frank needs time. We’ve not even played 1/3 of the season yet.

And I don't think we could complain if the aggregate score over those two games had been double digits, while our efforts at the end were pathetic.
I don't see much improvement, I just see a different way of failing.

 

[Baleforce]

And I don't think we could complain if the aggregate score over those two games had been double digits, while our efforts at the end were pathetic.
I don't see much improvement, I just see a different way of failing.

We could, as they would have both massively outscored their xG.

Arsenals was only around 2. 10 goals from that would be absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Muttley]

We have an improved squad compared to last season. Made this point before, but even more so compared to the start of last season.

We do have injuries for sure and for sure that's impacting us. Then again, injuries were a huge factor last season.

I'm not saying Frank shouldn't get time. But he needs to show improvements. This has been true all season and although there have been some positive signs overall I'm not seeing much from the start of the season until now.

Frank clearly prioritised defensive solidity and set pieces over just about everything else since he came in the door. Leaving us at times looking rather clueless on the ball. For sure we have weaknesses in the squad, for sure we have injury issues. But what we've seen in possession so far this season is also a result of Frank's priorities.

He's stated repeatedly that he wants to play with risk, that he also wants to play good attacking football. That needs to be shown on the pitch and not just in words sooner or later.

I think we have a mildly stronger squad than after the Jan window last year as we came out of the injury crisis. It would clearly be stronger with Kulu and Solanke in it as they are established first teamers. Madds is anoth big loss. We shouldn't dismiss the impact Bissouma had in our winning a trophy run, or the mid season performances of Dragusin. Our best box defender last season. Biss for me was our best player in the last 3 rounds of the EL. He certainly has more balanced attributes for a partnership with Palhinha when compared to Bents. He has often driven Brighton or Spurs forward and been in destroying mode in the middle of the park. We also had some good contributions from Tel since joining on loan las Jan. These things were already in place.

It's these little things that make the difference.

Except for Palhinha, I've not really seen any of the newbies backfill what we had from the players that have vacated the positions.

 

[harr1984]

We are 12 games in and we’ve recently played what are by far the two best teams in the league in Chelsea and arsenal.

We are a far better side than we were last season imo, and even though the plan on Sunday blew up, spectacularly, at least there was a plan.

Frank needs time. We’ve not even played 1/3 of the season yet.

Literally everyone is saying he needs/deserves time. The football has been poor, not for one or two games but for the majority of the time no matter how you want to dress it up...

 

[Baleforce]

Literally everyone is saying he needs/deserves time. The football has been poor, not for one or two games but for the majority of the time no matter how you want to dress it up...

But also effective.

 

[glasgowspur]

We could, as they would have both massively outscored their xG.

Arsenals was only around 2. 10 goals from that would be absolutely ridiculous.

Aggregate over both games is what I said.
And they scored four goals, Vic made at least two very good saves, that highlights how reliable xg is.

 

[harr1984]

But also effective.

It was effective at the start of the season when the players are all giving that extra bit for a new manager and the opposition are unsure of what the plan will be. Now teams have seen how we play, it's not been effective and easy to negate.

Yes it's not a big enough sample size to make definitive conclusions either way, but it's not something to ignore either....

 

[Muttley]

Literally everyone is saying he needs/deserves time. The football has been poor, not for one or two games but for the majority of the time no matter how you want to dress it up...

What gets me is the narratives. An entire campaign for Ange that he should get minimally 2 years and then a further campaign that he deserved the 3rd because of the trophy. Then Frank joins and the equivalent narrative becomes that he should get this season. Some are sneaking up to 18 months but nobody seems to be in the 2-3 years camp.

It's starting to feel like a double standard.

 

[glasgowspur]

What gets me is the narratives. An entire campaign for Ange that he should get minimally 2 years and then a further campaign that he deserved the 3rd because of the trophy. Then Frank joins and the equivalent narrative becomes that he should get this season. Some are sneaking up to 18 months but nobody seems to be in the 2-3 years camp.

It's starting to feel like a double standard.

I will say that despite how it may appear I for one am not against Frank, looking to sack him or not willing to give him a bare minimum of one season.
We are in a mess, have been for a good while, no one is going turn that around in one season.
The club has changed chairman, manager and captain in the summer and restructured, again.
It's all going take time, doesn't mean we can't analyse where we are, where we are going and how we think is the best way to get there.

 

[harr1984]

What gets me is the narratives. An entire campaign for Ange that he should get minimally 2 years and then a further campaign that he deserved the 3rd because of the trophy. Then Frank joins and the equivalent narrative becomes that he should get this season. Some are sneaking up to 18 months but nobody seems to be in the 2-3 years camp.

It's starting to feel like a double standard.

Yeah, that's where the style of football comes into play. At Spurs and the vast majority of clubs if you play a defensive/pragmatic style it will only be allowed time whilst winning games which I don't think is ever sustainable at our club. At a Chelsea it can work because they sign top players in the positions required to make it work, we dont.

Frank deserves time but regardless of my feelings on it, the masses won't allow for it if he continues this brand of football....