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Thomas Frank - Head Coach

Bullet said:
This is a good post, from the transfer thread:
Click to expand...
I agree. I don't think it's sack him, but he has to start implementing something very soon.

No point in being able to score goals without our holy trinity of attackers, then say that's the reason we not attacking.

Our style is inconsistent. We need to not be so submissive. The Bentancur stats are shocking, and for me evident that we lack a style, or submission is the style.... If that's the case then it needs faster results.

Clean sheets with no attacking principles doesn't work. We only have 7 clean sheets.... It's not impressive given the way we play. Maddison isn't going to fit into this system, he isn't a worker. Solanke will work harder but it's not a better finisher than Richy. Kulu is the only player I see improving us. I can only see more excuses when everyone says Solanke and Maddie aren't good enough. Nobody will ever be good enough.... That's why we need coaches/managers to get more out of players.
 
Mabspurs said:
Me too... would you like to pitch in and get him another Walker, Rose, Dembele, Eriksen, Alli, Son.... and above all Kane?

The "Frank is no good" crowd don't want comparison to "Ange did X" when we are basically talking about the same squad of players (actually creatively infinitely worse without Kulu, Madders and Dom).... but then they harp back to Poch, who had the once in a generation luck of working with undoubtedly our best squad of the past 30 years and was able to instil in them his methods and philosophy over two or three years before the brave football really took hold.

We all want to be brave, we all want to see us dominate the opposition and play expansive exciting football.... only some of us are realistic enough to understand that you cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear and until that skin and cartilage is replaced by better quality materials, the best you can get is a half decent leather item to tide you over....
Click to expand...

Brilliant post. Bravo.
 
Poch did not inherit the squad that went on the challenge for the title.
The squad he inherited for his first season included friedel, a 44 year old keeper, kaboul, chirches, fazio, yedlin, palinho, stambouli, towns end, ade, soldado, chadli and capoue.
That's 12 out of a 25 man squad.
Along with Mason, bentaleb and ceballos who as youngsters we can give a pass to.
This fiction that he inherited a great squad and was lucky to not have to do much is a complete nonsense.
 
glasgowspur said:
Poch did not inherit the squad that went on the challenge for the title.
The squad he inherited for his first season included friedel, a 44 year old keeper, kaboul, chirches, fazio, yedlin, palinho, stambouli, towns end, ade, soldado, chadli and capoue.
That's 12 out of a 25 man squad.
Along with Mason, bentaleb and ceballos who as youngsters we can give a pass to.
This fiction that he inherited a great squad and was lucky to not have to do much is a complete nonsense.
Click to expand...

I think this just needs to be repeated over and over again.

Poch did an incredible job developing those players to the level they reached.

I think it’s an interesting thing, this dichotomy of the players being good / bad versus the manager being good / bad. If you want to say Poch was worse, because he inherited an incredible bunch of players, fine. It also strengthens the argument that Frank can’t possibly be expected to play ‘nicer’ football, because the squad is nowhere near good enough. It is just nonsense. Poch’s squad was nowhere near great when he joined. Equally Frank’s squad is no where near as bad as is being made out now.

Btw - the brave football ‘took hold’ half way through Poch’s first season, when we beat eventual champions Chelsea 5-3 in a relentless performance, with the likes of Kane, Mason and Bentaleb putting in the work. That was New Years Day, almost ten years ago exactly.
 
A journo on a pod today, posited that maybe Thomas Frank saw us ship 3 goals at Forest and thought 'enough is enough' so he fully reverted to sorting out the defence first, and can then layer on his many layers of layers that he needs to layer on.

Since Forest, Pool got 2 (one of which was a foul when Ekitike pushed Romero in the back with 2 hands) and then Palace and Brentford couldn't score against us.


Regarding El Pochettino, I try to stay away from that interminable debate, but I remember being hugely frustrated with his teams on many occasions.
Even after a couple of years there were loads of boring insipid turgid displays where we couldn't break the skin on a rice pudding.
Eventually Eriksen or Kane or Son would save us, but by GHod it was dull sometimes.

To refresh my memory I clicked on season 2018/19 in TransferMarkt to see what was going on in that exciting end to the season where we pipped the Arse to 4th place.

www.transfermarkt.co.uk

Tottenham Hotspur - Schedule 18/19

This page contains an complete overview of all already played and fixtured season games and the season tally of the club Tottenham in the season 18/19.
www.transfermarkt.co.uk www.transfermarkt.co.uk

The final 12 results are really bad (see below). Poch did lots of good for us, but also lots of bad. A dialectic, if you will.
BUR A L
CHE A L
ARS H D
SOU A L
PAL H W
LIV A L
BRI H W
HUD H W
MNC A L
WHU H L
BOU A L
EVE H D
 
glasgowspur said:
Poch did not inherit the squad that went on the challenge for the title.
The squad he inherited for his first season included friedel, a 44 year old keeper, kaboul, chirches, fazio, yedlin, palinho, stambouli, towns end, ade, soldado, chadli and capoue.
That's 12 out of a 25 man squad.
Along with Mason, bentaleb and ceballos who as youngsters we can give a pass to.
This fiction that he inherited a great squad and was lucky to not have to do much is a complete nonsense.
Click to expand...

I love how people forget that Poch did have some shockers in his squad, but coached a lot of them to be as good as they were.
Bullet said:
A journo on a pod today, posited that maybe Thomas Frank saw us ship 3 goals at Forest and thought 'enough is enough' so he fully reverted to sorting out the defence first, and can then layer on his many layers of layers that he needs to layer on.

Since Forest, Pool got 2 (one of which was a foul when Ekitike pushed Romero in the back with 2 hands) and then Palace and Brentford couldn't score against us.


Regarding El Pochettino, I try to stay away from that interminable debate, but I remember being hugely frustrated with his teams on many occasions.
Even after a couple of years there were loads of boring insipid turgid displays where we couldn't break the skin on a rice pudding.
Eventually Eriksen or Kane or Son would save us, but by GHod it was dull sometimes.

To refresh my memory I clicked on season 2018/19 in TransferMarkt to see what was going on in that exciting end to the season where we pipped the Arse to 4th place.

www.transfermarkt.co.uk

Tottenham Hotspur - Schedule 18/19

This page contains an complete overview of all already played and fixtured season games and the season tally of the club Tottenham in the season 18/19.
www.transfermarkt.co.uk www.transfermarkt.co.uk

The final 12 results are really bad (see below). Poch did lots of good for us, but also lots of bad. A dialectic, if you will.
BUR A L
CHE A L
ARS H D
SOU A L
PAL H W
LIV A L
BRI H W
HUD H W
MNC A L
WHU H L
BOU A L
EVE H D
Click to expand...
Poch changed our mindset from hoping for Europe to demanding UCL.

He had to deal with the stadium build impacting transfer funds, and playing at Wembley. Yes he had some very good players, but they weren't world beaters when Poch arrived. Jose, Conte, and Ange were backed more to achieve less. Poch having us on the verge got no signings for 3 crucial windows.

But more importantly, he lost crucial players at the wrong time - Dembele's body was struggling, Dier started to struggle with injuries, Dele started his downward spiral, Hugo was full of errors that Gazaniga started to look the better option, Walker leaving ruined Rose. But he still finished 4th when his team was falling apart.

If Poch did a lot of bad, then what did Jose and Conte do to us?
 
Bullet said:
A journo on a pod today, posited that maybe Thomas Frank saw us ship 3 goals at Forest and thought 'enough is enough' so he fully reverted to sorting out the defence first, and can then layer on his many layers of layers that he needs to layer on.

Since Forest, Pool got 2 (one of which was a foul when Ekitike pushed Romero in the back with 2 hands) and then Palace and Brentford couldn't score against us.


Regarding El Pochettino, I try to stay away from that interminable debate, but I remember being hugely frustrated with his teams on many occasions.
Even after a couple of years there were loads of boring insipid turgid displays where we couldn't break the skin on a rice pudding.
Eventually Eriksen or Kane or Son would save us, but by GHod it was dull sometimes.

To refresh my memory I clicked on season 2018/19 in TransferMarkt to see what was going on in that exciting end to the season where we pipped the Arse to 4th place.

www.transfermarkt.co.uk

Tottenham Hotspur - Schedule 18/19

This page contains an complete overview of all already played and fixtured season games and the season tally of the club Tottenham in the season 18/19.
www.transfermarkt.co.uk www.transfermarkt.co.uk

The final 12 results are really bad (see below). Poch did lots of good for us, but also lots of bad. A dialectic, if you will.
BUR A L
CHE A L
ARS H D
SOU A L
PAL H W
LIV A L
BRI H W
HUD H W
MNC A L
WHU H L
BOU A L
EVE H D
Click to expand...
If you had to summarise Poch’s tenure as either ‘good’ or ‘bad’ which would you pick?

I know It’s very simplistic and removes any nuance but just for fun
 
Muttley said:
I'll start with Xavi as it's easier. We've seen a tougher Xavi more recently. We're not seeing the player who gets easily shaken off the ball or the one playing at a slightly lower pace. This is where the video analysis and the training ground comes into play with the management team. You don't just sharpen up these attributes on match days. That change is happening quicker than I thought to be fair. We need more though. We also need what you say and I'm now expecting Xavi to be demanding the ball more in a way he can be creative.

As for Gray, worth checking out his youth history as a number 10. That was always his shirt and he's probably spent more time on the pitch as a 10 in his lifetime than any other position. I'm hoping he's not a 10 as I'd love to see him deeper to be fair. For me, Frank has given him the trust and confidence to believe that he belongs in the first team now. In the PL, I think we were all pleasantly surprised to see him start against Burnley in August. Then we saw him back in the league side in late November after injury, then rested for Saudi Sportswashing Machine. Since then we've seen him pretty prominent in the team. Frank didn't drop him when he played badly at Forest and got the hook after 60. He just dusted him off and got him back out there to a tough Anfield. I really think you have to look manager-player relationship here to see what is happening with Gray's evolution into 1st team starter.

I can understand if fans just don't want to give Frank any credit. That's their prerogative and helps their narratives, but should understand that 19 year old kids need managers and coaching staff to help them on their way and accelerate their progress.

Kudus - let's see what can happen if we can get our left side sorted and lighten the load on him. Where Frank may need to work on him is getting him to cross the white line with the same 100% attitude and intensity in EVERY game. I haven't seen that yet. There was also a great observation in the match about how narrow Bents/Pal get. What Kudus needs is Porro working forward with him. That can only happen if the holding midfield can shift across. I also think Richi's service to Kudus has been poor recently. He's not offering an out at all.
Click to expand...

Honestly, it is absolutely nothing to do with not wanting to give Frank any credit. I don’t play those games personally. I also don’t care for narratives or tropes or whatever else you might want to say in that regard. As for understanding that 19 year olds need managers and coaching, I have to assume you were making a general statement. If not, that’s unnecessarily insulting.

Xavi? He is a class talent who has already amassed extensive experience for his age in world football. IMO his adaptation to the league is inevitable. He is not a rookie. I have not seen Frank do anything which is either developing or nurturing his game; you could possibly make an argument that Frank played him off the left for a while so as he could get used to the physicality, but that doesn’t match with his tactics.

Archie? First-off, he didn’t play badly against Forest, lets dispense with that myth. He was part of a big mistake for the first goal (how Vicario escapes criticism from that situation is beyond me) and he subsequently was our best player in the game, looking for the ball and nearly scoring an equaliser. Still, given that ‘The Mistake (tm)’ has been raise in at least three press conferences since, I suppose it has become a legend of its on lunchtime and creation. Gray is currently one of our best midfielders, so I would expect Frank to select him; I would also hope their relationship is good. Beyond selecting him (albeit not in a fixed role) is there anything material in his game which Frank has improved from last season beyond the nature of progress with a great young talent that I am missing? Has he added any dimensions to Archie’s game?
With regards to Archie and his history as a 10, yes, a few times at Leeds, but I remembered him predominantly as an 8 and also filling in defensively. I didn’t trust my memory, so I went back to optastats to see.

theanalyst.com

Archie Gray: What Leeds Wonderkid Will Bring to Tottenham | Opta Analyst

Archie Gray had never played for Leeds a year ago; now he's making a big-money move to Tottenham. Here, we take a detailed look at his game.
theanalyst.com theanalyst.com

Kudus? In agree, he needs to be liberated from being the only outlet, and we need to develop a better series of systems to both get him the ball and give him moments to pass which are structured. I do agree he has held on too long sometimes this season, but again, I have not seen any tangible difference in his game from the player we signed (who most of us agreed had another level to build on despite being a tremendous talent).
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
View attachment 21120
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The funny thing is, much like it always has been around here, the only reason it keeps coming up is because some people try to cross-compare and end up in some way belittling -let me be more polite, rewrite the narrative of his time.
So yes, yawn yawn yawn, some of us feel it is important to redress the balance.

Same with Postecoglu. You saw the efforts made earlier in the season to stay away from comparisons, yet they keep on being made, and usually by the ‘anti’ phalanx. In fact it has now become a semi-regular part of our official press conferences where we are reminded repeatedly of ‘17 games lost’ without context. So of course there will be responses.

The weirdest thing to me? That it is virtually forbidden to criticize Frank in some circles. I personally have striven to offer reasons that this is a really tough job for him, and offered many reasons why he deserves sympathy. I have equally been very honest about how awful I find his approach to our current game. The truth is, most people don’t want a discussion, they want to be ‘right’ which is tragic. And most people seem to believe that the opinions revolve solely around results, and that after a few wins, we’ll all be happy again.
I want us to win, of course I do, but I want us to win with style and identity. That’s how we always seem to end up back at Poch. I wish we didn’t, nearly as much as I hope upon hope we don’t take the cheap path to unity and re-appoint him in the summer, because I fear like incredibly rich food on an older stomach, it’ll taste glorious at the time but will very quickly cause a series of negative reactions. And given that some cannot fully appreciate what he did in the first place, that would be heartbreaking.
 
thfcsteff said:
The funny thing is, much like it always has been around here, the only reason it keeps coming up is because some people try to cross-compare and end up in some way belittling -let me be more polite, rewrite the narrative of his time.
So yes, yawn yawn yawn, some of us feel it is important to redress the balance.
Click to expand...

I am being playful mate, I loved Poch myself

I don't want him back though because I am a firm believer of circumstance in football, there is zero point brining him back to only skirt round recruitment and under serve is term also, its a hiding to nothing and with a totally different pack of cards to deal with.
 
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