The *WHEN* we go down thread

[DaveT316]

Indeed - Premier League form table below, not sure why people are anticipating/expecting West Ham to get next to nothing from their next 3 games considering two of those clubs are even below us in the form table. Brentford have won once in their last 9 PL games, vs Burnley:

View attachment 22224

Because form, by definition, is temporary, and people are hoping (expecting?) it to revert to the mean.

We have definitely been under-performing and West Ham are over-performing. It wouldn’t take much in the form table to adjust and it to swing in our favour.

It may not happen, but it’s v possible it does. That’s what people are clinging to.

 

[harr1984]

Because form, by definition, is temporary, and people are hoping (expecting?) it to revert to the mean.

We have definitely been under-performing and West Ham are over-performing. It wouldn’t take much in the form table to adjust and it to swing in our favour.

It may not happen, but it’s v possible it does. That’s what people are clinging to.

Well yeah, but regardless there's just no logical reason to think West Ham are getting next to nothing in their next three games. If form was irrelevant then we would have turned things around some time ago.

Of course we all hope West Ham get zero points, but the reality is there is nothing to suggest that...

 

[DaveT316]

Well yeah, but regardless there's just no logical reason to think West Ham are getting next to nothing in their next three games. If form was irrelevant then we would have turned things around some time ago.

Of course we all hope West Ham get zero points, but the reality is there is nothing to suggest that...

I agree that them getting zero points is highly unlikely. Us getting six and them getting four, enough to keep us up? That’s v possible given the fixtures and what you’d typically expect to get from them.

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

Well yeah, but regardless there's just no logical reason to think West Ham are getting next to nothing in their next three games. If form was irrelevant then we would have turned things around some time ago.

Of course we all hope West Ham get zero points, but the reality is there is nothing to suggest that...

West Ham appointed a highly respected and competent manager when they were deep in trouble that has had a proven track record of constructing teams far greater in terms of punch than the sum of their parts. A manager we treated with complete contempt and disregard when he was at our club.

West Ham are a completely different proposition now and if they stay up they will be top half next season.

Forest similarly took action in appointing a new manager that has them a completely different proposition to what they were.

We have appointed a highly competent manager ourselves. The difference is we gave him 7 games and a decimated squad. Too little too late.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

There is next to no logic where football is involved, form tables by definition only tell some of the story, hence "form".........West Ham could lose all three games in that two games are away to sides who have been over a period of time, better and they are home to Arsenal.......there is a "logic" in that, not that it will happen that way in the same way its unlikely they continue on the same form as their previous 5 games.

Let people be and have their hope

 

[harr1984]

West Ham appointed a highly respected and competent manager when they were deep in trouble that has had a proven track record of constructing teams far greater in terms of punch than the sum of their parts. A manager we treated with complete contempt and disregard when he was at our club.

West Ham are a completely different proposition now and if they stay up they will be top half next season.

Forest similarly took action in appointing a new manager that has them a completely different proposition to what they were.

We have appointed a highly competent manager ourselves. The difference is we gave him 7 games and a decimated squad. Too little too late.

Agreed, West Ham will be absolutely fine next season if they stay up. They aren't massively overperforming, they are on the sort of form that Nuno had Forest performing at.

Absolutely agree - Frank not going sooner and not replacing him with a decent manager sooner is what will end up sending us down.....

 

[harr1984]

There is next to no logic where football is involved, form tables by definition only tell some of the story, hence "form".........West Ham could lose all three games in that two games are away to sides who have been over a period of time, better and they are home to Arsenal.......there is a "logic" in that, not that it will happen that way in the same way its unlikely they continue on the same form as their previous 5 games.

Let people be and have their hope

Literally every Spurs fan has this hope. People are discussing what they think will happen in the upcoming games, would just be good to hear some rational reasons for why West Ham are going to struggle all of a sudden against two teams - Brentford who have been poor for some time and Saudi Sportswashing Machine who have a manger that appears to be a dead man walking and results are reflecting this....

 

[Diamond Lights]

seriously harming my mental health this. it's all i think of.

 

[harr1984]

I agree that them getting zero points is highly unlikely. Us getting six and them getting four, enough to keep us up? That’s v possible given the fixtures and what you’d typically expect to get from them.

Hope youre right! I could see them getting at least a win from their next 3, even against the Goons they have form for upsetting them and the Goons have form for bottling it this time of year so that's far from a formality. But if they do get 4 points, I think we will get the 6 needed....

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

Literally every Spurs fan has this hope. People are discussing what they think will happen in the upcoming games, would just be good to hear some rational reasons for why West Ham are going to struggle all of a sudden against two teams - Brentford who have been poor for some time and Saudi Sportswashing Machine who have a manger that appears to be a dead man walking and results are reflecting this....

Because over the course of a season, the sides they are playing, two of which away, have been far better and more consistent sides? That form table doesn't tell anywhere near the full story either, Saudi Sportswashing Machine lost away 1-0 in a close game to Arsenal, got a great draw home to Barce, beat United at Home and beat Chelsea away, all within the last 10 games. Their last 4 losses includes a derby game where they were the better side and an away loss to Arsenal. West Ham don't have anything other than a tough assignment going up there.........

Brentford have chucked up a load of draws, but their only defeat (bar pens) was United away.

There is context behind form tables other than just the top level data

West Hams run is tough, no two ways about it

 

[DaveT316]

Hope youre right! I could see them getting at least a win from their next 3, even against the Goons they have form for upsetting them and the Goons have form for bottling it this time of year so that's far from a formality. But if they do get 4 points, I think we will get the 6 needed....

I feel you're right here - it's definitely on a knife edge! But not a foregone conclusion. Everything is in play atm - West Ham could upset Arsenal, who look vulnerable and have form as you say, but from what I've seen of them recently, West Ham are not playing particularly well and results could start going against them. Brentford looked decent against Man Utd and created loads. Fingers crossed for more of the same on Saturday.

The key for me is that the past does not necessarily dictate the future, although it can of course be indicative of things.

We shall see! It's squeaky bum time regardless.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

The key for me is that the past does not necessarily dictate the future, although it can of course be indicative of things.

We shall see! It's squeaky bum time regardless.

100% this, no one can deny its a tightly run thing, likely to come down to a point either way, but this run in for all sides could IMO throw up any kind of outcome that isn't predicted in a form table or league table.

 

[harr1984]

Because over the course of a season, the sides they are playing, two of which away, have been far better and more consistent sides? That form table doesn't tell anywhere near the full story either, Saudi Sportswashing Machine lost away 1-0 in a close game to Arsenal, got a great draw home to Barce, beat United at Home and beat Chelsea away, all within the last 10 games. Their last 4 losses includes a derby game where they were the better side and an away loss to Arsenal. West Ham don't have anything other than a tough assignment going up there.........

Brentford have chucked up a load of draws, but their only defeat (bar pens) was United away.

There is context behind form tables other than just the top level data

West Hams run is tough, no two ways about it

Who said anything about West Ham's fixtures being easy? Every fixture is tough when you're down there.

But West Ham are currently better than Brentford and Saudi Sportswashing Machine and have been for some time - If you look at the form table over past 15 games, almost half a season - West Ham are 7th. Brentford are below them, and Saudi Sportswashing Machine are 17th. So asking why all of a sudden we are expecting West Ham to struggle against those teams is a fair question. Noone is saying it couldn't happen.....

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

Who said anything about West Ham's fixtures being easy? Every fixture is tough when you're down there.

But West Ham are currently better than Brentford and Saudi Sportswashing Machine and have been for some time - If you look at the form table over past 15 games, almost half a season - West Ham are 7th. Brentford are below them, and Saudi Sportswashing Machine are 17th. So asking why all of a sudden we are expecting West Ham to struggle against those teams is a fair question. Noone is saying it couldn't happen.....

There is about 5/6 points in it over the course of 15 games, its nothing to write home about.

I just explained why they might think that way, there is "logic" in both trains of thought IMO.............lets see what the footballing gods throw up

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Indeed - Premier League form table below, not sure why people are anticipating/expecting West Ham to get next to nothing from their next 3 games considering two of those clubs are even below us in the form table. Brentford have won once in their last 9 PL games, vs Burnley:

View attachment 22224

Brentford have only lost 2 PL games since the start of Feb.

So you can dice it anyway for affect.

What this really means is they have drawn a brick load of games....and if this game ends up a draw...it ain't so bad.

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

Who said anything about West Ham's fixtures being easy? Every fixture is tough when you're down there.

But West Ham are currently better than Brentford and Saudi Sportswashing Machine and have been for some time - If you look at the form table over past 15 games, almost half a season - West Ham are 7th. Brentford are below them, and Saudi Sportswashing Machine are 17th. So asking why all of a sudden we are expecting West Ham to struggle against those teams is a fair question. Noone is saying it couldn't happen.....

its separating hope from expectation. While i HOPE we stay up, the reality is we need to win our last 4 games to make that hope a significant possibility.

Even an above expectations performance from our remaining fixtures (win v leeds and Everton and 1-2 points v Villa/Chelsea) would allow West Ham to drop points in 2 of their remaining and Forest and Leeds would only need 2-4 points depending on GD.

 

[harr1984]

Brentford have only lost 2 PL games since the start of Feb.

So you can dice it anyway for affect.

What this really means is they have drawn a brick load of games....and if this game ends up a draw...it ain't so bad.

Yeah thats fair, I'm not even saying they can't slip up in all 3 games - But I fail to see why there would be an expectation they are going to considering West Ham have accrued more points over half a season than both Brentford and Saudi Sportswashing Machine - especially Saudi Sportswashing Machine who have been in pretty poor form for sometime.

Hope? Sure, we are all hoping. I won't fall off my chair if they get zero/one point from those games, but I fear they will get more. Let's see, be absolutely delighted to see them flop ....

 

[Mikey10]

Literally every Spurs fan has this hope.

Not me. I've largely accepted the inevitable.

Brentford have only lost 2 PL games since the start of Feb.

So you can dice it anyway for affect.

What this really means is they have drawn a brick load of games....and if this game ends up a draw...it ain't so bad.

Only if we win against Villa, which is a tall order.