THE TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR TRANSFER EVERYONE LOOK AT ME TOTALISER EXTRAVAGANZA

[Superhudd]

I think it is unfair to ask someone to make an investment to better their asset. Can I ask that you please invest in a Ferrari, or better your house as it would give me an immense amount of pleasure to know that you and Mrs Hudd are living in luxury.

As for why it is a non-interest loan it is a vehicle to put money into the club. Gifting the money would be treated in the same way in the accounts and it is just their way of structuring that transfer. Without getting too technical, in the accounts this is not treated as a debt. It is treated as an increase in their investment i.e. equity. It's just that this form of equity gives them less rights than their existing shares. However, that makes not one iota of difference because they have all the control over Spurs anyway. What they could have done is treat it as debt and just have it as an intercompany loan which would have increased our debt. They did not choose this.

I won't invest in a Ferrari for you to drive, but instead I will invest in about 2k a season in watching Tottenham so all fans get to see a better Tottenham.. in a way its my input in the grand scheme of it all. What's Enic's apart from interest free loans.. can I have my money back that I invest.

We a ruining this thread.. lol

 

[jimmyb]

ENIC have put in a lot of money and continue to do so! They put in an extra £40m in a non-interest loan that is unsecured and does not need to be paid back in addition to the increased share offering. To ask them to dip into their pockets (no matter how deep they are) is unfair. It's their money, their kid's inheritance so if they don't think it is the right way of spending their money that is their decision. We cannot expect them to be a bottomless pit. It only makes life easier for the supporters. The same supporters that criticise every move they make, continually call them out because they're not an Abramovich or Sheikh Mansour.

My understanding is that that loan has now been converted into equity.

 

[Jordinho]

Investment is always the best way to better an asset. Money makes money.

I am not saying a new stadium is not all the things you say.. it can be. Just saying why shouldn't Enic pay its share of the pain. Why should they get a free stadium.

I get that is great that Enic are able to do it from the clubs earning capacity but why do they get to live in Bemuda playing golf every day after a morning swim in an infinity pool. Seems to me, only one side during this process is having all the fun.

There's no benefit to them in investing the sums of money required to fight it out with Chelsea/City or pay for a stadium. An investment of several hundred million in world class players or new stadium would see a very poor return. Unlike certain other owners they don't need the publicity to cover up other shoddy aspects of their life.

 

[Superhudd]

Firstly, ENIC have put some of their own money in. £40m of it a little over a year or so ago; £15m five years before that; and £11m five years before that. £66m in total, give or take. Not a huge amount in the context of what has happened at Chel53a and City, granted, but not an inconsiderable sum either.

Secondly, I don't understand where you get the idea that ENIC are getting a stadium for free. You might as well complain that the shareholders of Tesco get a new superstore for free whenever one is built; or that the owners of BMW get a new cash cow for free whenever the company invests a large sum in research and development for a highly successful and profitable new model. Spurs are getting a stadium. ENIC own Spurs (or, the vast majority of it, at least, having probably invested a total of some £120-150m in the club) and their job over the past fourteen years has been to run it better than previous regimes and thereby improve it.

They have subsequently managed the club well enough to take it from mid table obscurity / periodic relegation scraps to perennial top 4-6 while also transforming the academy from one of the worst in the Premier League to one of the best in Europe. They have also built a new, £60m training centre that is widely recognised as one of the best in Europe and have progressed plans for what will become the best club stadium in England to the point of the commencement of construction. All of which while keeping the club in rude financial health.

So if and when they sell the club for a vast profit, it will be their payment for both their investment and their good management. Nothing free about it.

P.S. All of which is not to say that mistakes haven't been made or that more still won't be made.

Did you just go from 66m to 120-150m?

Vast profit. Yes I do begrudge this. Profits as they say should go back into the club.

 

[Superhudd]

There's no benefit to them in investing the sums of money required to fight it out with Chel53a/City or pay for a stadium. An investment of several hundred million in world class players or new stadium would see a very poor return. Unlike certain other owners they don't need the publicity to cover up other shoddy aspects of their life.

I know.. that's what its down to.. they don't have to do it, so why should they.. just it would be nice if they did do it.

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

I won't invest in a Ferrari for you to drive, but instead I will invest in about 2k a season in watching Tottenham so all fans get to see a better Tottenham.. in a way its my input in the grand scheme of it all. What's Enic's apart from interest free loans.. can I have my money back that I invest.

We a ruining this thread.. lol

Ha! I see what you did there! The thing is that your £2k is unfortunately only for watching us play. If you had invested £2k into shares when we were a public company, which I did by the way, then you'd have to find some other sucker to buy your shares for a greater amount in order to get a return.

And you're right, we're probably ruining the thread!

 

[jimmyb]

Investment is always the best way to better an asset. Money makes money.

I am not saying a new stadium is not all the things you say.. it can be. Just saying why shouldn't Enic pay its share of the pain. Why should they get a free stadium.

I get that is great that Enic are able to do it from the clubs earning capacity but why do they get to live in Bemuda playing golf every day after a morning swim in an infinity pool. Seems to me, only one side during this process is having all the fun.

This post beggars belief!

Firstly, investment is absolutely not "always the the best way to better an asset". It's a bizarre notion! For instance, nationalised companies back in the day had money literally thrown at them - and they were complete basket cases.

The key to increasing the value of a company is good management. And yes, that might include the judicious use of further investment from time to time.

Secondly, I can't believe that you're still banging on about this "free stadium" idea. It's nonsensical! And by the way, Joe Lewis gets to sip roostertails by his Cayman Island infinity pool while looking out to his super yacht at sea before playing golf on one of his courses because he has made a fudge load of money in currency trading initially and, subsequently, from the vast and varied portfolio of Tavistock Group companies. It's got bugger all to do with living off Spurs.

 

[jimmyb]

Did you just go from 66m to 120-150m?

Vast profit. Yes I do begrudge this. Profits as they say should go back into the club.

£66m is the money they have invested into Spurs. £120-150m is the total amount that they have spent on accumulating their shareholding - the £66m plus the total paid to buy shares from other shareholders.

All profits that the club makes ARE reinvested.

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

My understanding is that that loan has now been converted into equity.

Thanks for updating me! For anyone else that is interested, Swissramble has a quite detailed and excellent note on our financial performance. I agree with most of what he has said. What is particularly interesting is the below which is relative clubs' EBITDA (earnings before interest, tax, depreciation and amortisation) which is effectively a proxy for club's underlying profitability before player trading. The reason why this is important is because player trading and the profits on them are affected by a number of different accounting treatments and don't necessarily give you the true idea of profit on players. I can explain if you want.

Effectively what this shows is that we're the sixth biggest club but what it shows is that Chelsea, in fifth place, have £51m compared to our £39m which is quite a large difference. But it goes to show what Abramovich has done to that club and how they couldn't have done it without his investment.

http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/tottenham-hotspur-bottom-line.html

 

[jimmyb]

I won't invest in a Ferrari for you to drive, but instead I will invest in about 2k a season in watching Tottenham so all fans get to see a better Tottenham.. in a way its my input in the grand scheme of it all. What's Enic's apart from interest free loans.. can I have my money back that I invest.

We a ruining this thread.. lol

Apples and oranges and, with respect, as nonsensical as some of your previous arguments!

If you pay £2000 for a season ticket, then your return is that you get to watch 21 Tottenham Hotspur home games from one of the best seats at White Hart Lane during that season and you get priority booking for away games and cup semi finals and finals. That is the deal to which you agree.

If ENIC pay £120-150m to buy 90% of Tottenham Hotspur, then their hoped for return is that, with good management, the value of their investment is greatly increased. That is the deal to which they agreed.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Wow! so we are like 37m in the Black on Transfers over that period. That is quite amazing really.

What is really amazing is how crap United, Liverpool, West Ham and QPR have been in that period.

They've spent an awful lot of money to go nowhere at all, relative to where they were at the start.

 

[Superhudd]

Ha! I see what you did there! The thing is that your £2k is unfortunately only for watching us play. If you had invested £2k into shares when we were a public company, which I did by the way, then you'd have to find some other sucker to buy your shares for a greater amount in order to get a return.

And you're right, we're probably ruining the thread!

I have shares too.. YAY.. lets all get some bells and do some morris dancing.

Still won't change my mind..

I see profit from Stadium as Tottenham Hotspurs, not Enic's.. this will never change. I know that goes against business in general, but that's how I see it. Enic is just a custodial leech stuck on the side of the stadium.

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

I have shares too.. YAY.. lets all get some bells and do some morris dancing.

Still won't change my mind..

I see profit from Stadium as Tottenham Hotspurs, not Enic's.. this will never change. I know that goes against business in general, but that's how I see it. Enic is just a custodial leech stuck on the side of the stadium.

I'd rather just give a high five.

You're right, the stadium and the profit from the Stadium will be Spurs'. It's all owned by Spurs, and therefore any revenue from that will be. It just so happens that Enic owns Spurs!

As for Enic being a leech. If it were, it would be a really brick leech as it's not sucked out any blood as yet......

 

[NaijaSpurs]

I think this link fits in on this thread

http://talksport.com/football/trans...net-spend-summer-2015-transfer-window-so-far?

 

[Superhudd]

I'd rather just give a high five.

You're right, the stadium and the profit from the Stadium will be Spurs'. It's all owned by Spurs, and therefore any revenue from that will be. It just so happens that Enic owns Spurs!

As for Enic being a leech. If it were, it would be a really **** leech as it's not sucked out any blood as yet......

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

Ha! They will get their return. No one invests money to not get one!

 

[Superhudd]

I think this link fits in on this thread

http://talksport.com/football/trans...net-spend-summer-2015-transfer-window-so-far?

kittens, they see the clicks I get and jumping on the attention seeking bandwagon.

Soon all click based drivel sites will be doing it for every club.

 

[Superhudd]

Ha! They will get their return. No one invests THE CLUBS money to not get one!

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

I think this link fits in on this thread

http://talksport.com/football/trans...net-spend-summer-2015-transfer-window-so-far?

It does! Quite encouraging that our dross could be sold for actual money. I am surprised given that those players were stealing a living and patently could have been replaced by dustbins, or just with no-one, that we could get so much for them!

I think @jimmyb has shown you just how much they have invested!

 

[PochettinoPochettinoPochettino]

I like the fact we are bottom. If we can get 5th with not spending much money then that's good in my eyes. I don't think we are ever going to break the top 4 as it is, we had that chance unless we spend maybe £100m and on three top players which we aren't going to do. Aim for 4th get 5th until we have our shiny new stadium. Let's continue to making a profit each year rather than being in the red.