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The Power of Expectation
- Thread starter Millsy_Yiddo
- Start date
We have done better so far than we did in those same fixtures last season, so a little bit hard. We always lose one or two unexpectedly at home, everyone does unless they have Roman's money or Fergie's influence. In Harry's last season we lost to Norwich, drew with Wolves and got hammered by City.
There were plenty of horror shows under Harry, I remember a particularly drab 1-0 home defeat to Fulham, a poor 2-2 home draw with Blackpool, a 5-1 home defeat to Emirates Marketing Project, 5-2 battering away to Arsenal having been 2-0 up, 1-0 defeat to QPR away.
Plenty poor, lifeless defeats under Harry, with a much better squad i'd add.
Also, some of those performances were after he'd had a few seasons and it was definately HIS squad.
Stop worrying. We're not going down. We're not getting top 4. Europa? Well i'm not right bothered to be honest. I think the football's better than under AVB and Sherwood and i've enjoyed quite a few of the games, if not others.
Chill out.
Anyway, our start has not been easy.
In our first 10 games we've had to play West Ham away, Liverpool home, Emirates Marketing Project away, Arsenal away, Southampton home. Before the season started, you wouldn't have put West Ham and Southampton results in that bracket, but as things have panned out those results are very good, particularly playing with 10 men for so long v West Ham.
Millsy_Yiddo
Naybet
This illustrates my point perfectly. Harry had Gareth bale, Rafa Van Der Vaart, Luka Modric, Ledley King etc etc . Over the past weeks & months this board has been full of posts about how the players aren't anywhere near that caliber anymore, they might get there eventually, but not right now.
So why is the expectation still to win these games like we did under Harry?
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It's hilarious isn't it. It's like people will acknowledge that we've taken quite a bit of a step-back personnel wise, but then pin all the blame on Pochettino or Sherwood or whoever is in charge as to why we don't hammer WBA at home like when we had 3 or 4 world class players in the team.
Baleforce
Arthur Rowe
you are going to sell players, my expectation is they will be sold at a decent price and replacements will be of comparable quality
let's compare this to any other business, if performance of the company is strong for 5 years then profits take a massive fall in the 6th then people are going to rightly question the
let's compare this to any other business, if performance of the company is strong for 5 years then profits take a massive fall in the 6th then people are going to rightly question the
We can't replace World Class players like for like though and wer're suffering now because of that.
Stick King Bale and Modric like for likes in this team and we'd be top 4 contenders all day long
I don't think the problem is the genreal standard of our squad - it's the lack of 2 or 3 top class players which would set us apart.
Stick King Bale and Modric like for likes in this team and we'd be top 4 contenders all day long
I don't think the problem is the genreal standard of our squad - it's the lack of 2 or 3 top class players which would set us apart.
metalgear
Luka Modric
who knows what levy thinks?
does the cheering and jeering of the fans in stadium affect him?
or is he swayed more by the numbers pouring in from tv monies and merchandising worldwide.
levy has his own expectations, and I wouldn't be surprised if they are different from the expectations that the fans have. he may take into account the fans reactions, but I don't think he will be swayed just by it.
does the cheering and jeering of the fans in stadium affect him?
or is he swayed more by the numbers pouring in from tv monies and merchandising worldwide.
levy has his own expectations, and I wouldn't be surprised if they are different from the expectations that the fans have. he may take into account the fans reactions, but I don't think he will be swayed just by it.
Baleforce
Arthur Rowe
4 world class players are only part of it, we have recently moved on the likes of hudd, Livermore, Dempsey, siggy, Dawson, etc and replaced them with more expensive yet inferior players
as for the world class players, we got them cheap and aided their development, why wait till they leave to start again, have the next ones waiting in the wings
Millsy_Yiddo
Naybet
But it's about looking at what has actually happened rather than what we would like to happen. We've replaced 3 or 4 world class players with a number of players that we know are not world class, but we hope that with the correct management will become world class in the coming years. We have no right to expect the same results or question the management.
To take your business example. If a company loses 3 of their top performing salesmen to other companies. They have two options to replace them, pay big money and head-hunt 3 more salesmen with the same abilities and experience, or promote/bring in 5 promising young salesmen who they believe have ability but will take some time to properly learn the ropes.
If the company chose option 1 and performance drops the management should be questioned immediately because the expectation obviously was for the guys they have chosen to hit the ground running immediately, and at the end of the day, they have chosen incorrectly or are managing them incorrectly.
If the company chose option 2 and performance drops, the management should not be questioned immediately because the expectation was never that the new employees would hit the ground running. If after 2 or 3 years performance is not back to the same level or higher, then and then only should the management be questioned.
Baleforce
Arthur Rowe
i don't agree those are the options, you should always have option 2 on the go anyway
for the sake of discussion id say that we went down the option 1 route, soldado, Lamela, Paulinho were all perceived as world class when we signed them were they not? (let's try not to segue into a what's world class discussion, they were all priced accordingly)
for the sake of discussion id say that we went down the option 1 route, soldado, Lamela, Paulinho were all perceived as world class when we signed them were they not? (let's try not to segue into a what's world class discussion, they were all priced accordingly)
Millsy_Yiddo
Naybet
It's not about whether they were world class or not, it's about whether they were going to reach the heights of Bale or Modric, King or whoever in their first season. Something that Bale, Modric and King etc weren't even able to do.
And they weren't priced accordingly. Bale was sold for almost 100 million. None of the others were bought for a third of that.
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Millsy_Yiddo
Naybet
I disagree. The disagreement is between those who think Poch shouldn't be answerable to why we are not doing better currently because the reasons are obvious and those who think he should be because they don't agree with those reasons.
I don't think anyone thinks life is still all flowers and sausages and I think everyone realises we could be doing better.
I often get the impression that people think we SHOULD be doing better from reading the critical posts.
I don't think we're doing great, but I don't see what these expectations are based on. Finishing 4th and 5th and playing in the CL could just be us peaking.
Rose tinted specs imo - the players coming in have been no worse than the ones which have departed
We had to wait until they left because we had a 4 year period where the manager wasn't concerned with players with potential, he wanted players for there and then. We're now trying to readdress that
Baleforce
Arthur Rowe
perhaps I've not made this point clearly enough, I'm saying we should have either signed players who could, or have signed and developed these particular players earlier
this should be a production line of developed talent sprinkled with 1 or 2 exceptional plug in players, right now spurs should have a spreadsheet of what they expect the first team squad to look like in 5 years time and be planing accordingly with lists of backup targets for each role and options for differing tactics
Millsy_Yiddo
Naybet
Yes, but we didn't, and it's not. So why are we expecting results right now as if we have. That's my point.
You said yourself, 'we haven't had a hard start, we won all those games under Harry', yet above you've acknowledged that we haven't replaced the players Harry has adequately (i.e didn't sign players who are already developed, or signed others before selling Bale etc).
So why do you expect Poch to be able to obtain the same results as Harry did right now?
Baleforce
Arthur Rowe
in these transient manager times I'm not sure the current manager has time (or any inclination) to think that far ahead, it's the boards job (or a dof if you have one) to be doing that
we know from the vdv deal that levy was doing his own thing for the first team when arry was here, I'd assume he was doing the same with Dev players as we still picked a few up