***The official health and fitness thread***

[Nigeyman]

Only pussies use padding for squats. Its what traps are for

thanks for that:lol:

 

[Nigeyman]

1. Start with the bar. Do 5 reps. Add 5 kg, do 5 reps. Continue until the bar speed (i.e how quickly the bar moves up) slows even in the slightest. Take that weight and do another 2 sets of 5. That is your starting weight. From then on add 2.5kg per session.

2. You are at absolutely nowhere near the strength levels where lifting anything in any order will interfere with anything else. But, always squat first, its a good warm up for everything else as its the most full body exercise. It's also uses the most muscle out of all the lifts, and is therefore the best for building strength, so you want to get it done when you are fresh. Abs core exercises are a nonsense at this stage. You aren't strong enough to need to worry about extra exercises, squating and deadlinfting properly will strengthen 'the core' adequately for now.

You're not doing the program as laid out. Trust me, I've done the same. It's much more optimal to just do the program for a minimum period of time, then start adding things in or changing things to suit a specific goal.

okay thanks for all that.

gonna have to wait for this book to arrive so I can understand things a little better in terms of form and what Rippettoe suggests workout wise for a novice....in saying that I really enjoyed my session yesterday and looking forward to lifting again...thanks for all your advice over the last few months.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Only pussies use padding for squats. Its what traps are for

Correct. =D>

 

[Nigeyman]

Powercleans are great!

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Powercleans are great!

They are indeed! I'm guessing the book arrived then?

 

[Nigeyman]

They are indeed! I'm guessing the book arrived then?

no not yet but I studied his utube guide for form and gave it a go on Thursday....didnt lift to heavy as was working on my form but really really enjoyed doing them.

Found my limits on Squat and Bench now, so going to work hard on surpassing them, still havent found my upper echelon with Deadlift though.... gonna lift 70kg either today or Monday and see how I get on with that!

Sleeping is going ok and eating apart from that people are noticing my changed eating habits and there is I feel alot of pressure on me from other people to eat dirty when I am trying to eat clean.... Its hard enough living in a world where you see a Maccy d every 2 miles or you go into a shop and see only the unhealthy stuff! without that as well.
Either way loving my cage and weights.....cant wait for my book to arrive and looking forward to seeing where I am after 3 months of the starting strength program.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

no not yet but I studied his utube guide for form and gave it a go on Thursday....didnt lift to heavy as was working on my form but really really enjoyed doing them.

Found my limits on Squat and Bench now, so going to work hard on surpassing them, still havent found my upper echelon with Deadlift though.... gonna lift 70kg either today or Monday and see how I get on with that!

Sleeping is going ok and eating apart from that people are noticing my changed eating habits and there is I feel alot of pressure on me from other people to eat dirty when I am trying to eat clean.... Its hard enough living in a world where you see a Maccy d every 2 miles or you go into a shop and see only the unhealthy stuff! without that as well.
Either way loving my cage and weights.....cant wait for my book to arrive and looking forward to seeing where I am after 3 months of the starting strength program.

'Clean eating' is a bit of a myth IMO. It's all about macros and total calories, where you get those macros and total calories from doesn't really matter. It's just much easier to avoid over-eating 'clean' than it is eating 'dirty' so people automatically assume that eating 'clean' is why they are losing weight (you could get as fat as you want on nothign but fruit and veg if you ate enough, but the amounts you would need to eat would be almost impossible). Be careful not to get caught up in a diet of chicken and brocilli right now, it's a very quick way to not progress in your lifts and make youself sick of things. Both of which will result in you giving up on the program.

Personally in your early stage I would just add enough protein in the form of whey to my normal diet to hit the 1-1.2g/lb recommendation. After a few weeks I would weigh myself then track my macros for a week, just eating what I normally eat and keep supplementing with whey to get the amount of protein needed. I'd weight myself each day at the same time then take an average over the week. Then based on the difference in weight I'd slowly adjust my macros depending on my goals until I start seeing the results I want. Hold it there, and when the results stop, re-evaluate take out/add a small amount of carbs or fats until desired result is achieved again.

For health, eating 'clean' is obviously benificial, but carb sources of rice, potatoes, pasta, bread (OMG YOU CRAZY MAN!!!!???) are all fine, proteins from fish, chicken, beef blah blah and fats from good sources (including animal fat) are all absolutely fine. If you eat these and hit the right macros, you'll be healthy and achieve your goals.

When you say you've reached your limits on squat and bench, what do you mean?

 

[Nigeyman]

'Clean eating' is a bit of a myth IMO. It's all about macros and total calories, where you get those macros and total calories from doesn't really matter. It's just much easier to avoid over-eating 'clean' than it is eating 'dirty' so people automatically assume that eating 'clean' is why they are losing weight (you could get as fat as you want on nothign but fruit and veg if you ate enough, but the amounts you would need to eat would be almost impossible). Be careful not to get caught up in a diet of chicken and brocilli right now, it's a very quick way to not progress in your lifts and make youself sick of things. Both of which will result in you giving up on the program.

Personally in your early stage I would just add enough protein in the form of whey to my normal diet to hit the 1-1.2g/lb recommendation. After a few weeks I would weigh myself then track my macros for a week, just eating what I normally eat and keep supplementing with whey to get the amount of protein needed. I'd weight myself each day at the same time then take an average over the week. Then based on the difference in weight I'd slowly adjust my macros depending on my goals until I start seeing the results I want. Hold it there, and when the results stop, re-evaluate take out/add a small amount of carbs or fats until desired result is achieved again.

For health, eating 'clean' is obviously benificial, but carb sources of rice, potatoes, pasta, bread (OMG YOU CRAZY MAN!!!!???) are all fine, proteins from fish, chicken, beef blah blah and fats from good sources (including animal fat) are all absolutely fine. If you eat these and hit the right macros, you'll be healthy and achieve your goals.

When you say you've reached your limits on squat and bench, what do you mean?

Ok well started the ss sessions light and have bumped up the weight.....did a session tonight, previous two sessions I managed but was near failure at 60kg then 62.5kg squat......tonight I did 3 sets of 5 at 65kg...the last rep at 5 I was literally digging as deep as I could to get up from below parallel (ass to grass squat) bit ****y that on the second set I failed on the 5th rep but after a few mins I went again and completed the 5 for the last set (how long do you leave between sets? do you do the warm up routine rippetoe suggests?)...so yeah at a bodyweight of 60 kg my best atm is 65kg squat...obvioulsly I want to surpass this so not sure what to do next session on Wednesday.

Benched 47.5kg tonight but reckon I can push for the 50 on Wednesday, Deadlifted 70kg but feel I have more in the tank.

previously I felt I had good workouts but new I wasnt at my level...max I could do with the big three.....feel like I am there for squat and a little more to go for the other two...thats what I mean..... I think for Wednesday I am going to have to squat 65kg again without failing 3x5 before I can put the tiddler weights either side and go for 67.5kg

Book arrived today.......I think I am getting the eating more or less spot on.....harder for me is the sleep....Im just not used to 8-9 hours a night.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Ok well started the ss sessions light and have bumped up the weight.....did a session tonight, previous two sessions I managed but was near failure at 60kg then 62.5kg squat......tonight I did 3 sets of 5 at 65kg...the last rep at 5 I was literally digging as deep as I could to get up from below parallel (ass to grass squat) bit ****y that on the second set I failed on the 5th rep but after a few mins I went again and completed the 5 for the last set (how long do you leave between sets? do you do the warm up routine rippetoe suggests?)...so yeah at a bodyweight of 60 kg my best atm is 65kg squat...obvioulsly I want to surpass this so not sure what to do next session on Wednesday.

Benched 47.5kg tonight but reckon I can push for the 50 on Wednesday, Deadlifted 70kg but feel I have more in the tank.

previously I felt I had good workouts but new I wasnt at my level...max I could do with the big three.....feel like I am there for squat and a little more to go for the other two...thats what I mean..... I think for Wednesday I am going to have to squat 65kg again without failing 3x5 before I can put the tiddler weights either side and go for 67.5kg

Book arrived today.......I think I am getting the eating more or less spot on.....harder for me is the sleep....Im just not used to 8-9 hours a night.

How long have you been doing the program and what weight did you start with your squat? It seems a little early to be stalling (I have it in my head you've only been doing the program for a couple of weeks?). I worked the whole way up from a 60kg starting weight to 140kg without missing a rep. I was eating for strength (i.e everything in sight), but still, seems a little early for you.

Also, you'll read this when you get the book, so I'll not ellaborate too much, but 'Ass to grass' squats in the typical body builder sense aren't what you want to be doing. You want to just break parallel (i.e the crease of your hip drops just below the top of your kneecap in the bottom position). The reason for this is that you can't really get into a ATG position without relaxing various things, and when you have 150kg on your back, relaxing is not something you want to be doing. Anyways, there's far far far more detail than I can ever go into in the book, but this could be another reason why you are stalling quite quickly.

It could just be a mental thing. Squatting with something heavy on your back is a pretty strange sensation for people who are not used to putting heavy things on their back and sitting down. You'll surprise yourself how much weight you can grind out. Some people do whats known as heavy walkouts where they take a weight way above what they are about to squat, walk out with it on their back, then put it back on the rack without squatting. That way, the weight they actually lift feels lighter on their back.

But at your body weight I would expect you to be hitting the 100kg mark before starting to even feel like you are about to miss reps (providing you are eating to support muscle gain). So something is not quite right. Once you read the book, you should be able to have a pretty decent stab at working it out and fixing it.

Edit: sorry forgot to answer your question regarding warm up etc. Yeh I would go with the warm-up he advocates if possible. Regarding how long you wait between sets, it depends on how much you are lifting. In the early days when I was down in the 60-100kg on my squats I would rest a few minutes, as I got nearer to 140kg I'd rest much longer. At times close to 6-7 minutes I'd guess. I think I read somewhere that ATP isn't replenished fully until 8 minutes after a heavy lift, so when things get heavy that is a good guide.

 

[Nigeyman]

How long have you been doing the program and what weight did you start with your squat? It seems a little early to be stalling (I have it in my head you've only been doing the program for a couple of weeks?). I worked the whole way up from a 60kg starting weight to 140kg without missing a rep. I was eating for strength (i.e everything in sight), but still, seems a little early for you.

Also, you'll read this when you get the book, so I'll not ellaborate too much, but 'Ass to grass' squats in the typical body builder sense aren't what you want to be doing. You want to just break parallel (i.e the crease of your hip drops just below the top of your kneecap in the bottom position). The reason for this is that you can't really get into a ATG position without relaxing various things, and when you have 150kg on your back, relaxing is not something you want to be doing. Anyways, there's far far far more detail than I can ever go into in the book, but this could be another reason why you are stalling quite quickly.

It could just be a mental thing. Squatting with something heavy on your back is a pretty strange sensation for people who are not used to putting heavy things on their back and sitting down. You'll surprise yourself how much weight you can grind out. Some people do whats known as heavy walkouts where they take a weight way above what they are about to squat, walk out with it on their back, then put it back on the rack without squatting. That way, the weight they actually lift feels lighter on their back.

But at your body weight I would expect you to be hitting the 100kg mark before starting to even feel like you are about to miss reps (providing you are eating to support muscle gain). So something is not quite right. Once you read the book, you should be able to have a pretty decent stab at working it out and fixing it.

Edit: sorry forgot to answer your question regarding warm up etc. Yeh I would go with the warm-up he advocates if possible. Regarding how long you wait between sets, it depends on how much you are lifting. In the early days when I was down in the 60-100kg on my squats I would rest a few minutes, as I got nearer to 140kg I'd rest much longer. At times close to 6-7 minutes I'd guess. I think I read somewhere that ATP isn't replenished fully until 8 minutes after a heavy lift, so when things get heavy that is a good guide.

yeah couple of weeks, well been keeping a journal so started 7th August and squatted 40kg, 10th August 45kg, 12th August 60kg,(jumped as I knew it was too easy) 14th August 62.5kg yesterday 65kg.

little bit confused as I thought you had to go ass to grass in order to engage the posticular chain glutes,hammys,quads (sorry if thats wrong) in other words hips below the knee (patella), perhaps I am going slightly too low and pausing which is why its killing me trying to get back up.

I guess there is a little bit of nervousness I suppose but yesterday my safety bars saved me when I failed so I know I have the confidence with my cage and I am not going to crush myself.

The book is quite heavy going (still brilliant mind) and I have not finished the squat chapter yet.

definitely eating for strength, and sleep is getting better, feeling a bit tight after yesterday hopefully a bit of light cardio will help. thanks for all your advice btw and being patient with my questions....I would love to squat 100kg and I am determined to get there, yesterday was just a setback, will try 67.5kg on wednesday and alter my form....hopefully I will live to tell you the tale...

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

yeah couple of weeks, well been keeping a journal so started 7th August and squatted 40kg, 10th August 45kg, 12th August 60kg,(jumped as I knew it was too easy) 14th August 62.5kg yesterday 65kg.

little bit confused as I thought you had to go ass to grass in order to engage the posticular chain glutes,hammys,quads (sorry if thats wrong) in other words hips below the knee (patella), perhaps I am going slightly too low and pausing which is why its killing me trying to get back up.

I guess there is a little bit of nervousness I suppose but yesterday my safety bars saved me when I failed so I know I have the confidence with my cage and I am not going to crush myself.

The book is quite heavy going (still brilliant mind) and I have not finished the squat chapter yet.

definitely eating for strength, and sleep is getting better, feeling a bit tight after yesterday hopefully a bit of light cardio will help. thanks for all your advice btw and being patient with my questions....I would love to squat 100kg and I am determined to get there, yesterday was just a setback, will try 67.5kg on wednesday and alter my form....hopefully I will live to tell you the tale...

And there in lies the problem. Don't jump. It will get plenty hard quickly enough. It's a marathon, not a sprint (and other cliche sayings).

Basically, you are a novice lifter. You are in the great position where a tiny stimulus results in a change in your body. You recover quickly because this stimulus is so small and when you recover, you are stronger. This is why you can squat 3 times per week with increasing weight. If you had a 300kg squat, you could not do this as you couldn't recover in time (and you certainly couldn't increase the weight every workout).

So, when you jumped from 45kg to 60kg you've hampered your ability to recover properly between workouts, so now you are going into your next workout not fully recovered.

Honestly, I think if you continue as is, you'll be bashing your head against a wall for the next month or so trying to get above 70kg, whereas if you'd just kept going the way you were right through from the 45kg you jumped at in 5kg increments, you would easily surpass 65kg in good time. In fact I'd take a stab that doing it this way you would pass 70kg and above before you will if you keep going as you are currently.

Don't worry about anything being 'too light' for now. Just do the program as written adding 5kg per workout to your squat. If I was you I'd go back to 45kg and work up from there again. Tis' up to you though!

On the ass to grass thing, possibly just that we both have different understandings of the term 'ass to grass' my understanding is the typical bodybuilder (and infact olympic lifter) high bar squat, where the back is fairly up right and the ass is pretty much as close to the ground as you can get it. With the low bar squat your back angle is more acute (it has to be so you don't fall over). This engages the hamstrings earlier in the movement, so although you do have to break parallel which is (as I think you are alluding to) the crease of your hip below the patella. You don't need to relax any lower than that, and you don't need to pause. Push your knees out and feel the tension in your hammys as you go down, you'll get to a point where you feel the tension and kind of learn to 'bounce' (bad terminology but you'll understand once you read the book) off it. This will teach you the correct depth. It's all about getting your knees in the right position to be honest.

I'm sounding here like I have some kind of perfect squat. I don't, infact I managed to give myself a dose of patellar tendonitis from allow my knees to come too far forward at the bottom at one point, so I had to drop the weight way back and basically re-learn the movement. It's much much better now, but still not perfect. Every day is a school day, but the book is a fantastic reference. It is very in-depth and can be tough reading at some points though.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Well I got on my bicycle this morning in the wind and the rain as I think I am a little heavy at moment and I am not even going to weight myself but I am thinking I am creeping up to 13 and a half stone so it is time to knuckle down and get to 12 and a half again.

Swear the bicycle sunk down when I got on it.

No sugar or eating after 6pm and a serious load of cycling for 6 weeks.

 

[DHSF]

Well I got on my bicycle this morning in the wind and the rain as I think I am a little heavy at moment and I am not even going to weight myself but I am thinking I am creeping up to 13 and a half stone so it is time to knuckle down and get to 12 and a half again.

Swear the bicycle sunk down when I got on it.

No sugar or eating after 6pm and a serious load of cycling for 6 weeks.

I would suggest the Warrior diet. If you like food its the diet for you. Its pretty great and you actually lose FAT and not MUSCLE.

 

[Grays_1890]

I would suggest the Warrior diet. If you like food its the diet for you. Its pretty great and you actually lose FAT and not MUSCLE.

Have you done that diet? 20 hours of none or liquid diet and 4 hours of eating like a beast (within reason)

 

[DHSF]

Have you done that diet? 20 hours of none or liquid diet and 4 hours of eating like a beast (within reason)

I have yep coupled with strength exercise and HIIT.

Its not really a 20 hour fast, its undereating so things like light vegetables eg celery, carrots etc... raw stuff - although I do fast. Then around 7pm have a big meal of cooked vegetables and protein and carbs (dependent on whether you exercised prior to the eating or not)... I eat after I exercise that way the workout is fuelled after.

I personally dont eat for four hours, ill eat one meal incorporating the macros i.e. protein and fats with alittle carb from the vegetables and thats it.

Works a treat without the expense of losing strength. It works for me as really id rather eat and be satisfied fully than eat 6 small meals and be never satisfied in those small meals - kinda teases me.

 

[Grays_1890]

I have yep coupled with strength exercise and HIIT.

Its not really a 20 hour fast, its undereating so things like light vegetables eg celery, carrots etc... raw stuff - although I do fast. Then around 7pm have a big meal of cooked vegetables and protein and carbs (dependent on whether you exercised prior to the eating or not)... I eat after I exercise that way the workout is fuelled after.

I personally dont eat for four hours, ill eat one meal incorporating the macros i.e. protein and fats with alittle carb from the vegetables and thats it.

Works a treat without the expense of losing strength. It works for me as really id rather eat and be satisfied fully than eat 6 small meals and be never satisfied in those small meals - kinda teases me.

Does sound interesting, do you only get your carbs from Veg in the meal and not from pasta, breads even if wholemeal?

Sorry to bombard you, sounds an interesting diet...what would you normallyy snack on in the day if you do indeed snack?? Carrot sticks etc etc??

 

[DHSF]

Does sound interesting, do you only get your carbs from Veg in the meal and not from pasta, breads even if wholemeal?

Sorry to bombard you, sounds an interesting diet...what would you normallyy snack on in the day if you do indeed snack?? Carrot sticks etc etc??

If I worked out before, ill eat sweet potato, wholewheat pasta etc but nothing like white bread or white rice etc. If I dont workout then just vegetables as a carb source. I limit carbs to about 100g a day.

It is interesting and works if as a person you are ill-disciplined with food as I am, it also works for me during the week as im usually in and out of meetings during the day so you dont even think about food, you become accustomed to it.

I am slack on weekends in that I dont follow the diet and will eat more than one meal and have a cheat day (Sunday really) which I still limit to around 3k calories... but the week as a whole ill be on a deficit so im not gaining muscle but maintaining it while losing fat. The cheat day keeps me sane but I dont go ballistic and have 10k calories as that would destroy my weeks efforts. Been doing this for three months now.

There was this really good Horizon programme on BBC2 yesterday about dieting etc the second and third parts are on today and tomorrow.

 

[AuroRaman]

Not sure if this has been discussed before on here; I'm running a half-marathon in March. Got a good training programme which I'm using at the moment, but getting conflicting information about the foods I should be eating. Has anyone run marathons previously or have a good idea about what I should be using for fuel and recovery?

I'm a veggie by the way

 

[DHSF]

Not sure if this has been discussed before on here; I'm running a half-marathon in March. Got a good training programme which I'm using at the moment, but getting conflicting information about the foods I should be eating. Has anyone run marathons previously or have a good idea about what I should be using for fuel and recovery?

I'm a veggie by the way

Im not a fitness guru by any means or a nutritionist obviously haha but I would suspect carbs carbs carbs? Unless youre trying to lose weight but even so id have suspected carbs and protein?

 

[Grays_1890]

Yeh my mate was doing marathons, Irons mans etc and his training diet was extreme to the point he wasn't getting enough as he couldn't force the food down. He was in amazing shape too

Cheers for the insight into the diet DHSF, much appreciated