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The Official 2022/23 Premier League Thread

I'm very intrigued about the Toney ban and didn't know what thread was best.

Personally I find it incredible that a professional footballer can think it's okay to bet against their own team numerous times and also that the idea that an addiction to such actions reduces the ban when many other players who are caught out get heavier bans.

Just as we discussed it previously I'm going to "at" @johnola - I don't want to assume but going by previous discussions you may have had some experience with struggles with gambling whether by yourself or people around you so just thought you may have some insight on the matter but apologies if I'm way off the mark.

To be clear I'm not meaning to belittle the idea of being addicted to gambling itself but how mystifying it is to not separate it from risking your professional career in such plain terms. Anyone ruining themselves deserves help and support (even if it's hard to help someone actively making horrendous decisions)but to knowingly make the choice to bet against your own team multiple times isn't a mistake or mishap when it goes against sporting principles, I just don't get it.

I don't have much faith in how we diagnose addiction, and much like anything it seems easier to get a medical get out of jail card if you have money to burn, I doubt a claim for addiction to pickpocketing or breaking in to people's houses goes particularly far if you haven't got coin for a a solid legal team. There was an interesting article on the beeb that showed if you paid <£700 to an independent mental health assessment board you were much more likely to get an ADHD diagnosis than some down and out "idiot" without the wealth to pay up front, that's a different story but it lies in the same region of privileged people reaping unfair benefits.

In this specific instance ie a lesser ban upon being found to be addicted, it seems like you are punished less for making way more bad decisions....
 
spurspinter1 said:
I'm very intrigued about the Toney ban and didn't know what thread was best.

Personally I find it incredible that a professional footballer can think it's okay to bet against their own team numerous times and also that the idea that an addiction to such actions reduces the ban when many other players who are caught out get heavier bans.

Just as we discussed it previously I'm going to "at" @johnola - I don't want to assume but going by previous discussions you may have had some experience with struggles with gambling whether by yourself or people around you so just thought you may have some insight on the matter but apologies if I'm way off the mark.

To be clear I'm not meaning to belittle the idea of being addicted to gambling itself but how mystifying it is to not separate it from risking your professional career in such plain terms. Anyone ruining themselves deserves help and support (even if it's hard to help someone actively making horrendous decisions)but to knowingly make the choice to bet against your own team multiple times isn't a mistake or mishap when it goes against sporting principles, I just don't get it.

I don't have much faith in how we diagnose addiction, and much like anything it seems easier to get a medical get out of jail card if you have money to burn, I doubt a claim for addiction to pickpocketing or breaking in to people's houses goes particularly far if you haven't got coin for a a solid legal team. There was an interesting article on the beeb that showed if you paid <£700 to an independent mental health assessment board you were much more likely to get an ADHD diagnosis than some down and out "idiot" without the wealth to pay up front, that's a different story but it lies in the same region of privileged people reaping unfair benefits.

In this specific instance ie a lesser ban upon being found to be addicted, it seems like you are punished less for making way more bad decisions....
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I come from a culture where people are given chances to correct their aberrant behaviours and to be forgiven.

I didn’t wake up this morning thinking we should hang Toney because he lost a brickload of money and let his employers, teammates and supporters down.

Because when behaviours amount to self harm, those people indulging in them self evidently have a problem,

You can call it a weakness if you like- and even sneer. That’s your privilege.
 
When you look at all the brick other clubs get away with, and see Toney punished like this it doesn’t seem fair to me.

He’s owned up to a weakness, and it clearly wasn’t affecting his game, he’s been deadly this season, the punishment doesn’t fit the crime.

Liverpool are pumping their players full of PEDs and it’s all being hushed up.

It stinks.
 
johnola said:
I come from a culture where people are given chances to correct their aberrant behaviours and to be forgiven.

I didn’t wake up this morning thinking we should hang Toney because he lost a brickload of money and let his employers, teammates and supporters down.

Because when behaviours amount to self harm, those people indulging in them self evidently have a problem,

You can call it a weakness if you like- and even sneer. That’s your privilege.
Click to expand...

Okay wow. If I hit a nerve I would have accepted you saying you'd rather not talk about this kind of stuff rather than make a bunch of rash assumptions about my views without actually considering what I've said (or just not replying).

It's okay to make mistakes, but 13 abhorrent (I presume that was the word you meant to use) mistakes in a row alongside a couple of hundred bricky ones? That's a different case entirely and you've got to see that, that's not me sneering. As I've said before I wouldn't judge poor folk thinking gambling is a way out of a mess but a high level athlete betting on their own sport that they are competing in? I'm one of the poor folk without self confidence so am not really a gambling type - I don't get it.

What exactly do you consider a mistake? If you know something is wrong and then continue to do it anyway, that's not a mistake in my book. I could name a whole number of examples which aren't necessarily going to be productive but are factually correct but I'm hoping to keep this response civil despite the whole vibe of your reply.

I haven't suggested a death penalty but have requested a discussion about what seems like a lenient punishment for what essentially is match fixing.

Of course self destructive / bad behavior is a weakness, should we pretend it's a strength to admire now? I personally indulge a different kind of weakness every day but I admit it is what it is, I understand an addiction to substances all too well but I am interested in those who have the privileges of being a PL footballer yet tinkle it away with thoroughly bad decisions.

Your response is a world away from what I was hoping for as I was actually hoping for insight rather than what comes across as arsy-ness, apologies if I caught you at the wrong time.

Edit - I googled it and didn't even know aberrant (why would it be so close to abhorrent with a similar meaning, that's the English language for you I guess) was a word so my bad on that front! But on the rest I'm still surprised on the whole tone of the response.
 
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Baleforce said:
When you look at all the brick other clubs get away with, and see Toney punished like this it doesn’t seem fair to me.

He’s owned up to a weakness, and it clearly wasn’t affecting his game, he’s been deadly this season, the punishment doesn’t fit the crime.

Liverpool are pumping their players full of PEDs and it’s all being hushed up.

It stinks.
Click to expand...

Factually betting against your own team 13 team times (and 200 plus other incriminating betting offenses to boot) is worse than a pure myth without substance. Stick to adoring Lamela rather than going full Qanon, it's a less embarrassing look for the forum (and that's on a forum where it's whimsical to wish death on players or talk about raping dead people etc etc)
 
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spurspinter1 said:
Okay wow. If I hit a nerve I would have accepted you saying you'd rather not talk about this kind of stuff rather than make a bunch of rash assumptions about my views without actually considering what I've said (or just not replying).

It's okay to make mistakes, but 13 abhorrent (I presume that was the word you meant to use) mistakes in a row alongside a couple of hundred bricky ones? That's a different case entirely and you've got to see that, that's not me sneering. As I've said before I wouldn't judge poor folk thinking gambling is a way out of a mess but a high level athlete betting on their own sport that they are competing in? I'm one of the poor folk without self confidence so am not really a gambling type - I don't get it.

What exactly do you consider a mistake? If you know something is wrong and then continue to do it anyway, that's not a mistake in my book. I could name a whole number of examples which aren't necessarily going to be productive but are factually correct but I'm hoping to keep this response civil despite the whole vibe of your reply.

I haven't suggested a death penalty but have requested a discussion about what seems like a lenient punishment for what essentially is match fixing.

Of course self destructive / bad behavior is a weakness, should we pretend it's a strength to admire now? I personally indulge a different kind of weakness every day but I admit it is what it is, I understand an addiction to substances all too well but I am interested in those who have the privileges of being a PL footballer yet tinkle it away with thoroughly bad decisions.

Your response is a world away from what I was hoping for as I was actually hoping for insight rather than what comes across as arsy-ness, apologies if I caught you at the wrong time.

Edit - I googled it and didn't even know aberrant (why would it be so close to abhorrent with a similar meaning, that's the English language for you I guess) was a word so my bad on that front! But on the rest I'm still surprised on the whole tone of the response.
Click to expand...
Match fixing?? Gambling is not match-fixing, you're making a big reach there.

I doubt very much a player thinks that it's ok to bet against his own team, but it's like an alcoholic, they know that the next drink is doing them serious damage but they can't help it.
Footballers are humans, they have the same weaknesses as the rest of us, some will have addictive personalities like the general population. The big difference is that with the money they earn, the circles/parties etc that they are going to be exposed to, they are going to be exposed to a lot more temptations. Some won't have the self-control or people around them to tell them that they are doing wrong and suddenly they are on a slippery slope whether it's drink, drugs or gambling.

Think a little bit of understanding and empathy wouldn't go amiss on your part.
 
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