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The Official 2022/23 Premier League Thread

Grays_1890 said:
I dont agree I think thats made it worse because as VAR has proved that decisions that are subjective come with a human being making a decision based on their opinion, so does that matter if its the ref or if its 4 men behind a camera?

I think we would have been in a much better situation had we empowered refs with the support that a refs decision is final for better or worse and therefore pushed the idea of respect further. Instead when refs in real time were getting 95% of all decisions right we decided to undermine them with VAR then undermine VAR with more criticism (rightly).

We got this badly wrong in my opinion
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I think that's a fair point and would have been a better approach. I don't know how you would have achieved that extra level of respect though. With tv companies already showing every angle possible of a disputed incident, and in real time, slow mo, fast mo and any other way they could find, before the introduction of VAR, the genie was already out and running rampage, there was no way back to emphasising the authority of the ref. If anything VAR was supposed to help with that but whether the onfield ref or VAR, the decision is always going to be open to dispute and the ref will always be undermined. The TV companies are not going to stop generating controversy.
 
Glenda's Legs said:
I think that's a fair point and would have been a better approach. I don't know how you would have achieved that extra level of respect though. With tv companies already showing every angle possible of a disputed incident, and in real time, slow mo, fast mo and any other way they could find, before the introduction of VAR, the genie was already out and running rampage, there was no way back to emphasising the authority of the ref. If anything VAR was supposed to help with that but whether the onfield ref or VAR, the decision is always going to be open to dispute and the ref will always be undermined. The TV companies are not going to stop generating controversy.
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Well respect and maintaining respect would have seen good prevail, but like you said we decided the other route which has seen pandoras box opened in my opinion. We should have pushed for more respect from managers who were way over the line for years, the likes of Fergie, Jose and Arsene getting away with saying whatever they liked about refs, which in turn creates the column inches helped create what we have now which is way more messy in my opinion that it ever was.

I never believed in this "managers should explain themselves" either, I think we should have invested in them to make them better and do things behind doors to protect the integrity of refs and the game rather than the path chosen IMHO
 
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The media will stop banging on about officiating mistakes when they stop happening.

It’s an incredibly rich sport, there is no excuse not to constantly look for improvements.
 
Baleforce said:
The media will stop banging on about officiating mistakes when they stop happening.

It’s an incredibly rich sport, there is no excuse not to constantly look for improvements.
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But the media don't provide solutions. So it's just complaining.

AI is going to be brought in the world cup, we'll see how that goes.
 
Treating "Respect the ref" as more than an empty slogan would be a good start. Give straight yellows for players confronting the ref. Only captains should be allowed to address the ref during the game, or a designated outfield player if the goalie is captain.

We need a broader acceptance of the speed and complexity of the modern game, and how quickly a ref must make difficult decisions. Mistakes will happen - it's only human. Less media emphasis on this would certainly help.

Add a proper, functioning VAR system as a backup, to address the worst mistakes, and the game would be much better off. This must be a significantly more transparent, effective and less ambiguous VAR that what we have today, including time limits for decisions and a broad panel of VAR referees acting independently to limit any possible refereeing bias influencing VAR decisions.

I think this would be good for the game.
 
Lilbaz said:
But the media don't provide solutions. So it's just complaining.

AI is going to be brought in the world cup, we'll see how that goes.
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well yes, but that’s the press isn’t it, it’s the same for politics, tech coverage, everything

the problem isn’t the media, it’s a combination of ambiguous laws and under resourced officiating
 
Baleforce said:
I disagree, I thinks it’s essential.

Certainly when it pertains to the integrity and fairness of professional sport.
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I think the search for perfection is ridiculous in a sporting sense. But there can be no denying football is way beyond that in a business sense these days. Results matter, so correct decisions lead to correct/fair results.

The aim should be all black and white decisions should be tech decided. Offside, out of play, over the line, corners, goal kicks, throw ins..the lot. You're then left with subjective decisions, many would be pretty easy to agree on so it would be interesting to audit how many 'coin toss' subjective decisions there are left per game on average.
 
Baleforce said:
I disagree, I thinks it’s essential.

Certainly when it pertains to the integrity and fairness of professional sport.
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There is no such thing as perfection in sport in any sense, debates exist not because people agree but because people can't and thats because many decisions in sports are subjective. Force and intent often can't be defined and proven and therefore goes back to the decision being respect, a decision made by the person the sport decided as the referee, that decision made for a reason.
 
Robbo said:
Treating "Respect the ref" as more than an empty slogan would be a good start. Give straight yellows for players confronting the ref. Only captains should be allowed to address the ref during the game, or a designated outfield player if the goalie is captain.
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100% this - It will probably give us one mental weekend of yellow and red cards then settle. It will then filter to grass roots football where it's even more important to respect the referee imo.
 
MKSpur said:
100% this - It will probably give us one mental weekend of yellow and red cards then settle. It will then filter to grass roots football where it's even more important to respect the referee imo.
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I'd love to see a 5 second count for players that roll about on the floor. If you are unable to get up in that time you have to go off the pitch and be checked out by an independent doctor to ensure you are fit to continue. The game carries on while you are off. Cut down the feigning injury crap.
 
Take the time keeping off of refs. Have it done by ai. With a 5 minute sin bin for any player time wasting.
 
Robbo said:
Treating "Respect the ref" as more than an empty slogan would be a good start. Give straight yellows for players confronting the ref. Only captains should be allowed to address the ref during the game, or a designated outfield player if the goalie is captain.

We need a broader acceptance of the speed and complexity of the modern game, and how quickly a ref must make difficult decisions. Mistakes will happen - it's only human. Less media emphasis on this would certainly help.

Add a proper, functioning VAR system as a backup, to address the worst mistakes, and the game would be much better off. This must be a significantly more transparent, effective and less ambiguous VAR that what we have today, including time limits for decisions and a broad panel of VAR referees acting independently to limit any possible refereeing bias influencing VAR decisions.

I think this would be good for the game.
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Completely agree, we need to look at rugby in this respect (pun intended..). Like someone else mentioned it could be messy for a few weeks with cards galore but for the good of the game it would be necessary.

having said the above, the standard of referring and VAR does need to improve, the powers that be have to accept that mistakes are being made and then they can look at how to rectify it going forward. At the moment they are releasing statements like VAR got 99.3% of decisions correct, WALOB, that’s just massaging the numbers and whitewashing the issue.
 
Apart from when we need to see a game out! We've gone full Italian, so maybe this is a rule change for circa 5 years time :) Delivered with Italian aplomb it is an art. You could almost admire how they won the Euros against England, primarily on culture. The English were reserved and polite, the Italians got their elbows out, and leveraged everything they could to hustle the cup. That win at all cost determination is a great thing to watch sometimes, I think we are appreciating it at Spurs.
 
Lilbaz said:
I'd love to see a 5 second count for players that roll about on the floor. If you are unable to get up in that time you have to go off the pitch and be checked out by an independent doctor to ensure you are fit to continue. The game carries on while you are off. Cut down the feigning injury crap.
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I can already think of two ways to abuse that to get the opposition’s best player off the pitch for minutes at a time.

I don’t think we need to be too clever with the laws, just get more eyes on the game, have a ref for every player watching player cam, have an assistant every 10 yards on the outside of the pitch, gps/nfc in balls, boots and shin pads to triangulate offsides, contact sensors in the ball so we know exactly when it was passed.

It’s tech/resource that already exists, just use it.

The problem isn’t that it’s not perfect, it’s that someone is getting screwed every week, and that is seen as acceptable.
 
Lilbaz said:
Take the time keeping off of refs. Have it done by ai. With a 5 minute sin bin for any player time wasting.
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Display it on the scoreboard so the players know it's ineffective? Or would anyone here miss that jeopardy of the refs interpretation of 4 minutes of injury time when leading by a single goal?!
 
I'd go with a hard clock, if a team can keep the ball out of play for long enough to be a benefit that's still football, still a skill, they shouldn't be punished for it.

Defending and attacking should be equal partners in the game.
 
Lilbaz said:
I'd love to see a 5 second count for players that roll about on the floor. If you are unable to get up in that time you have to go off the pitch and be checked out by an independent doctor to ensure you are fit to continue. The game carries on while you are off. Cut down the feigning injury crap.
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Only if the ref counts it like this
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