The "lack of experience" factor.

[Gutter Boy]

What were lacking is energy

We play a lethargic brand of keep ball with no dynamicism

Maybe an experience head could get the players changing the tempo and upping their games as well as claiming things down when necessary but with the players playing this slow football its fudgeing hard to change things

I think the problem is the AM trio. With Mason and Bentaleb we have CMs who transition the ball quickly (solving AVB's problem).

But now our 3 AMs, especially the wide two, are so stagnant and lacking in penetration, that's where the block is now.

I'm quite confident that with Chaldi and Dembele as the wide pairing, we'll struggle to ever win a game.

I'm really looking forward to seeing Njie and hopefully soon Berahino offering some penetration in those positions. I think then we'll really start to click

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I think the problem is the AM trio. With Mason and Bentaleb we have CMs who transition the ball quickly (solving AVB's problem).

But now our 3 AMs, especially the wide two, are so stagnant and lacking in penetration, that's where the block is now.

I'm quite confident that with Chaldi and Dembele as the wide pairing, we'll struggle to ever win a game.

I'm really looking forward to seeing Njie and hopefully soon Berahino offering some penetration in those positions. I think then we'll really start to click

I agree with that logic as ive been saying for ages that our weak link is the 3 behind kane

We need to upgrade their massively imo. The only current one who is of a quality needed for as higher level is Erisken and Kane if he drops back

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Palace and Leicester are able to play with real pace (and make it effective) because they spend a lot of the game against teams like us defending. Slowly drawing us onto them (without us actually scoring) which gives them space in behind our back 4 to exploit.

Southampton similarly to us normally dominate teams in terms of possession. Are they struggling because of lack of pace or because they are playing a patient possession based game without the players with ability to make key decisions when it really matters which result in goals.

Honestly, I don't know. It was more of a hypothetical lets start a discussion type thing. In reality, it's probably a bit of both.



I think the case is that teams come in thinking they can 'nick a win'. If they actually went for the win from the off, it would be good for us.

But you need the pace to actually make the counter. We simply don't have it

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

Palace and Leicester are able to play with real pace (and make it effective) because they spend a lot of the game against teams like us defending. Slowly drawing us onto them (without us actually scoring) which gives them space in behind our back 4 to exploit.

Southampton similarly to us normally dominate teams in terms of possession. Are they struggling because of lack of pace or because they are playing a patient possession based game without the players with ability to make key decisions when it really matters which result in goals.

Honestly, I don't know. It was more of a hypothetical lets start a discussion type thing. In reality, it's probably a bit of both.

I think the case is that teams come in thinking they can 'nick a win'. If they actually went for the win from the off, it would be good for us.

I think you're right with that.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

But you need the pace to actually make the counter. We simply don't have it

Oh yeh, absolutely agree. Wasn't suggesting that we should change to a counter attacking brand of football. We don't really have the players for that either.

 

[glasgowspur]

if you look at the teams that are developing like palace and Leicester they play with real pace that belies there lack of technically capable players. Don't get me wrong they have some good footballers but they also have some rapid players who work hard. It makes a huge difference and is genuinely exciting

Southampton ae really struggling this season without the pace from their wing backs as they have in effect the same set up as ours (by default)

No teams is going to set themselves up to play attacking gung ho football in this league other than the top top sides now, however you can have much more flex in your style if you have variety in the squad

But what teams sit back and park the bus against palace or Leicester? The top teams don't because they expect to win and the teams around them don't because it's a six pointer. That gives them room to play.
When we they everything is compressed into one half of the pitch.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

But what teams sit back and park the bus against palace or Leicester? The top teams don't because they expect to win and the teams around them don't because it's a six pointer. That gives them room to play.
When we they everything is compressed into one half of the pitch.

Doesn't matter if you don't have the pace to capitalise on the counter

 

[glasgowspur]

Not sure I totally understand, but yes open games of the type they are more likely to be in are easier if you have pace. Until Clinton starts we don't have much.
It's something I've been banging on about for a while. We need pace, but not against Leicester. Against Man U and to a lesser extent Stoke where it was an open game and we played nice football pace could have won us the game. Against leicester, I doubt it.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Not sure I totally understand, but yes open games of the type they are more likely to be in are easier if you have pace. Until Clinton starts we don't have much.
It's something I've been banging on about for a while. We need pace, but not against Leicester. Against Man U and to a lesser extent Stoke where it was an open game and we played nice football pace could have won us the game. Against leicester, I doubt it.

I mean pace is a genuine threat

It means that teams have to sit back for fear of being hit on the counter

Against Leicester we lacked genuine creativity and sorely missed erisken but you still need pace to get in behind them

We didn't get behind them once and always seem to want to go through the middle into the most compact and compressed area

If you have pace you can go wide and then inwards from there like they did for their goal

 

[glasgowspur]

Can't totally agree with that, deny space and sit deep and pace isn't that effective in my view. Waiting their own though.

 

[Bullet]

Do the top 4 or 5 teams have pace and use it? Not sure. Sometimes, but often they are just hammering away at "10 behind the ball" for most of the game until something cracks.

I guess there are times when Walnut or the Ox run quickly but a lot of the time it is skill or sheer weight of numbers that wins games for Utd Cheats City Ars etc. rather than pace.

Unless others think differently... Hazard is quite quick but is not all about pace, same with Oscar, Aguero, Silva, Yaya, that big Brazilian Spaniard at Cheatski... Sterling has not been able to use his pace at City so far... Giroud, Ozil, Cazorla, Ramsey etc... Rooney, Young, Memphis is fairly rapid but... I'm trying to think of when these guys really use pace other than fast passing etc.

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

Do the top 4 or 5 teams have pace and use it? Not sure. Sometimes, but often they are just hammering away at "10 behind the ball" for most of the game until something cracks.

I guess there are times when Walnut or the Ox run quickly but a lot of the time it is skill or sheer weight of numbers that wins games for Utd Cheats City Ars etc. rather than pace.

Unless others think differently... Hazard is quite quick but is not all about pace, same with Oscar, Aguero, Silva, Yaya, that big Brazilian Spaniard at Cheatski... Sterling has not been able to use his pace at City so far... Giroud, Ozil, Cazorla, Ramsey etc... Rooney, Young, Memphis is fairly rapid but... I'm trying to think of when these guys really use pace other than fast passing etc.

I think that it has to be pace aligned with technical skill and intelligence. If you just had a front 3 of pace with very little else, it will appear one-dimensional. Likewise if you just had guile, it would appear one dimensional. At our best we aligned the two to devastating effect and that is what I think we should try and emulate. I think it is really difficult to break down a team that plays with a lot of players behind the ball which is why the best teams press high up the pitch to force an error and use quick passing or pace to really hurt teams before they are able to get 2 banks of 4 behind the ball again.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Arsenal regularly use walclam and Oxo when their struggling as well as the other players who are reasonably quick

City have sterling and Navas and Navas is generally poor but his pace is a threat

Liverpool have IBe now but we're crying out for pace last season in their attack

United have Depay now who is quick and young who is quick. They still suffer though from not having the bakance. United looked their best with pace on one side and craft on th either like the gigs and beckham combo

I agree Chelsea don't have obvious pace but they sit back defence wise and allow the opposition to have a go and play on the counter. There quite unique for a top side but they are invariably a defensive unit realign in brilliance or power

 

[Bullet]

Ar5ena1 regularly use walclam and Oxo when their struggling as well as the other players who are reasonably quick

City have sterling and Navas and Navas is generally poor but his pace is a threat

Liverpool have IBe now but we're crying out for pace last season in their attack

United have Depay now who is quick and young who is quick. They still suffer though from not having the bakance. United looked their best with pace on one side and craft on th either like the gigs and beckham combo

I agree Chel53a don't have obvious pace but they sit back defence wise and allow the opposition to have a go and play on the counter. There quite unique for a top side but they are invariably a defensive unit realign in brilliance or power

Pool had Sterling last year.

Overall not so much then really... pockets of it but it isn't the primary threat... you just need a bit of it somewhere in the front 6 e.g. Berahino or N'jie.

I wonder how fast Alli is... he looks extremely tall and is the most talented long distance runner along with Bentaleb, I bet he can pick up pace a bit like Vieira or someone... doesn't look that explosively fast but in 7 strides they've gone from the centre circle to the penalty spot.

 

[elltrev]

Was thinking about this the other day. Is this just football now?

I've heard the same complaint from most fans of teams in similar positions to ours. Is it just a case that the league is split into **** teams who go out and sit two banks of 4, middle teams who are good enough to keep possession against the **** teams but don't have the players to regularly create chances against them, and good teams who can keep possession and create chances.

Love this quote!

For all the endless debate about playing style, I do just wonder if it's a simple case of less money = less good players = less able to play quick accurate passes to break teams down!

/end forum

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Love this quote!

For all the endless debate about playing style, I do just wonder if it's a simple case of less money = less good players = less able to play quick accurate passes to break teams down!

/end forum

How would you explain Swansea????

Less money than most in the division but able to break anyone down with good technical players, genuine variety and a system

 

[Jordinho]

How would you explain Swansea????

Less money than most in the division but able to break anyone down with good technical players, genuine variety and a system

But not consistently, hence their finishing position in the league.

 

[afsoc4life]

The game on Saturday really called out for experience and we didnt have it. I also think we need to get it.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

But not consistently, hence their finishing position in the league.

They have been pretty consitent in this division and they have maintained a footballing philosophy that belies their resources

They have finishe 9th 11th and 12th

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

How would you explain Swansea????

Less money than most in the division but able to break anyone down with good technical players, genuine variety and a system

Key part highlighted in bold. Good technical players do not necessarily have to be expensive. Their good technica players are still not good enough to have them anywhere near the top 4 though.