The 'is this an example where we miss a Modric/Moutinho/Sahin type' thread

[glorygloryeze]

Yesterday was a great result, but we to look at the possible reasons why we were on the ropes in the second half almost totally. Whilst we know United are quite unique in how they can bombard a team, we perhaps really missed somebody diffeent to the beak at pace players we mostly had in our front 5 players. Sandro was immense in his defensive duties, but he and the rest of the defence needed to be given a breather.
They, i believe, needed someone to pass to that would have held up possession a little, perhaps drawn a fould to allow us to take a breather, regroup and crucialy push up a bit.

Perhaps this is where we may regret not signing a Moutinho or Sahin type player. Perhaps Modric woukd have been crucial as well, though he's often been involved in our collapses so it's perhaps too simplistic.

I thought i'd have this thread as an area to talk about the technical merits to us of a Moutinho type player, or not, as the season goes on. Or perhaps the way we are or can mitigate against not having this type of player.

Please discuss

 

[indianspur]

Yesterday was a great result, but we to look at the possible reasons why we were on the ropes in the second half almost totally. Whilst we know United are quite unique in how they can bombard a team, we perhaps really missed somebody diffeent to the beak at pace players we mostly had in our front 5 players. Sandro was immense in his defensive duties, but he and the rest of the defence needed to be given a breather.
They, i believe, needed someone to pass to that would have held up possession a little, perhaps drawn a fould to allow us to take a breather, regroup and crucialy push up a bit.

Perhaps this is where we may regret not signing a Moutinho or Sahin type player. Perhaps Modric woukd have been crucial as well, though he's often been involved in our collapses so it's perhaps too simplistic.

I thought i'd have this thread as an area to talk about the technical merits to us of a Moutinho type player, or not, as the season goes on. Or perhaps the way we are or can mitigate against not having this type of player.

Please discuss

exactly. He did nothing in the 5-2 collapse at OT a few years ago. Last season he was involved in the 5-2 collapse at Arse and couldnt help stop the tidal wave by keeping hold of the ball

its not about individuals, its about keeping possession as a collective unit.

 

[Hootnow]

I think having a player in that mould does help, though as you rightly point out, just having that player is not, in and of itself, enough. It requires a team that is collectively able to absorb pressure, keep their heads and maintain possession when they do eventually receive the ball.

Also, as good as I felt Defoe was yesterday, it emphasised to me the importance of getting Adebayor back fit or having a third striker that has presence up front. Around the 50/60 minute mark, we were resorting to hoofing the ball up to Defoe and the ball was coming right back at us. We needed to be able to bring on a player that could have held up the ball for us.

Saying all this, this is perhaps being a little critical. Man Utd are probably the best team in the world at doing this overload comeback routine and we weathered it perhaps as well as we could have considering the circumstances. I also feel, rightly or wrongly, we played that way in the second half because we considered that we had something to hold onto. We would have played differently if we still had to get a goal imo.

But I'd like Moutinho anyway please.

 

[El Guepardo]

We needed to try to change the tempo of the game by having spells of possession. We wasted that by having one of the following; insufficient players in attacking areas, bad decision making like when Defoe went for shot rather than holding play up, there was one memorable occasion of this when faced with 2 defenders and 0.1% chance of scoring he shot straight at the defenders and thirdly, we had no focal point of attack. I think, as has been mentioned elsewhere, if Adebayor had been fit he would have made for a good target who could hold the ball up allowing the other players to get in to position.

This is not an attack at Defoe who, on the whole, did well including his fantastic pass to Bale for the third goal, but more a summary of my ideas of how tactically we could have staved off the pressure.

Having a Moutinho is more important when building attacks I think and playing the crucial pass, a player of their ability makes the whole team tick.

 

[DHSF]

I think Parker would have helped immensely.

You think Scholes would have had that much space if Parker was on the pitch? Scholes is amazing and if you stop him you stop half their play.

 

[Baleforce]

as had been said, our lack of an easy out ball was the issue in the last phase of the game

 

[glorygloryeze]

I think Parker would have helped immensely.

You think Scholes would have had that much space if Parker was on the pitch? Scholes is amazing and if you stop him you stop half their play.

Interesting. Do you mean as in bring parker on at 3-1 or 3-2 or do you mean starting parker alongsode Sandro/instead of Sandro?

 

[indianspur]

the Scholes thing did annoy me. It seemed the obvious thing to do was to simply put Dempsey or Siggy on him and just mark him out of the game. However who knows what that would have done to the overall shape of our defensive performance. Il trust that AVB and the coaches had their reasons why they left Scholes to dictate everything in that second half onslaught

 

[bennysleftfoot]

I agree, I think a fit parker and ade would have made a huge difference. Sandro would have held while Scotty ran round chasing everything that moved, and ade would have held up some of the defensive punts foreward that bypassed our midfield and gave us a breather.

That said I think we are set up pretty well to play away from home and showed it yesterday, we're not gonna get a tougher test away than that.

 

[DHSF]

Interesting. Do you mean as in bring parker on at 3-1 or 3-2 or do you mean starting parker alongsode Sandro/instead of Sandro?

Interesting. Parker is my first choice anyways but I would DEFINITELY have Parker over Sandro for these type of games away from home at home maybe Sandro as first choice as he adds more going forward. AVB started with Sandro yesterday so i would have changed it with 30 mins to go when it was obvious Scholes had the freedom of the fudging planet. Dempsey nor Sig did nothing to stop him.

I dont think it had anything to do with not having a passer like the aforementioned players in the OPs message - it was more us not stopping their key players you sop scholes you stop them having the ball.

 

[Spur of the moment]

the Scholes thing did annoy me. It seemed the obvious thing to do was to simply put Dempsey or Siggy on him and just mark him out of the game. However who knows what that would have done to the overall shape of our defensive performance. Il trust that AVB and the coaches had their reasons why they left Scholes to dictate everything in that second half onslaught

AVB should definitely have put someone on Scholes but I doubt either Dempsey or Siggy could have done the job. Scholes is extremely difficult to get near to, he's brilliant at making space for himself and laying the ball off or even making a 30 yard pass before you can touch him. Anyhow I got the impression that Dempsey was running of gas midway through the second half yesterday. Parker might have done the job for sure, but would he have gotten forward like Dempsey to score the goal?

Scholes' performance yesterday second half was breathtaking. One of the most sensational I have seen from a midfielder ever.

 

[WookieD]

We just need someone to keep their head and start thinking about possession. Look at what Eidur did for us against Arsenal, we would have lost that game if he hadn't come on and calmed things down. For me Dembele should have been tasked with that job and he is going to have to learn to play that short game in the midfield, instead of pressing with the ball.

 

[WookieD]

AVB should definitely have put someone on Scholes but I doubt either Dempsey or Siggy could have done the job. Scholes is extremely difficult to get near to, he's brilliant at making space for himself and laying the ball off or even making a 30 yard pass before you can touch him. Anyhow I got the impression that Dempsey was running of gas midway through the second half yesterday. Parker might have done the job for sure, but would he have gotten forward like Dempsey to score the goal?

Scholes' performance yesterday second half was breathtaking. One of the most sensational I have seen from a midfielder ever.

Defoe should have been told to make a nuisance of himself as Scholes was starting from deep pretty much every time.

 

[Danners9]

It would have been useful for any player to take the ball away, rather than just kicking it far.. there was a huge gap between Defoe and the midfield.

Not sure Modric would have made anything better. Certainly not on defensive duties. Dembele is stronger and forward thinking (when attacking) rather than sideways and looking for that one gap. Dembele runs through the gap and we needed that yesterday. United's defence looked hopeless when the play is coming to them, when it is in front of them from side to side there is more chance for a midfielder to take the ball away... and too often we have been kept at a distance, Modric plays his part in this because he holds the ball and makes short passes instead of someone like Dembele or Dempsey joining up with Lennon and Bale to stretch United.

Spurs did well keeping United in front of them, making them pass back and forth (the TV said they are dominating or passing to death, but didn't really do much with it), and keeping shape. The Utd players tried to stretch Spurs wide and take advantage of the gaps, they didn't get too many gaps.

Not the best game to use as an example though, it was always going to be backs to the wall going into the second half. I liked Sigurdsson running the ball out of danger and buying a foul off Rooney.

 

[Papercut]

Sahin was brilliant yesterday. Think we missed a trick not getting him in the Modric deal.

 

[africanspurs]

i dont think modric would have made a blind bit of difference to that pressure we took

and i'm glad we told sahin to F off. if we got him we wouldnt have had either sandro or dembele playing this often. and i like those two

 

[WookieD]

We definitely have a lot to learn. There was a point with about ten mins to go where I think Sigurdsson broke on the right and nobody would give him an option. Hudd, I think, just stood 20yds off and didn't look to show for him, Defoe had gone running off far left and there wasn't any thought of anyone giving him an option. Predictably it turned over into another ManU attack. That's just unacceptable imo. It's one thing to not commit too many bodies, it's quite another for a player only just out of our own half to have ZERO options.

 

[SpurMeUp]

I think its also a mentality. Having confidence to play and pass the ball in that kind of cauldron of pressure.

In the first we were fresh and running around, it was 'nothing to lose' mentality. The second the rear guard came first...second, third etc..and to be honest, we were a little lucky not to concede again. We need to be able to have more confidence to play the ball out, when under such pressure.

But we were looking for fast counter attacks. Problem was most were quickly snuffed out and manu recycled possession.

Therefore I'd like to see an experienced player come in. Parker may make the difference, as noted already.

 

[ALtottenham_hotspur]

the Scholes thing did annoy me. It seemed the obvious thing to do was to simply put Dempsey or Siggy on him and just mark him out of the game. However who knows what that would have done to the overall shape of our defensive performance. Il trust that AVB and the coaches had their reasons why they left Scholes to dictate everything in that second half onslaught

I thought of that as well, so why not put Defoe on him when he didnt have the ball? Then as soon as we got hold of the ball, Defoe could make a run off Scholes.

I know that would leave Rio and Evans with a lot of time on the ball, but I would prefer them having rather then Scholes.

 

[colin fishwick]

the Scholes thing did annoy me. It seemed the obvious thing to do was to simply put Dempsey or Siggy on him and just mark him out of the game. However who knows what that would have done to the overall shape of our defensive performance. Il trust that AVB and the coaches had their reasons why they left Scholes to dictate everything in that second half onslaught

Scholes, does not create many chances and gets very, very few assists , he most just passes square, which is why he has such a high completion rate .

He is a good player, if you want to protect a lead, by wasting time, but not really a weapon if you are chasing the game.

The two most incisive passes of the game came from Defoe and RVP.