The Elephant On The Forum

[BrainOfLevy]

We won't win the league. Not a hope in hell. We going to have a major battle on our hands for fourth. In order to get fourth we're going to have to finish above either an Arsenal team that people are now tipping as favourites for the league, or a Chelsea side that played us off the park in the second half today, a Emirates Marketing Project side containing some of the best players in the world, or last season's premier league winners.

Not to mention finishing above the likes of Everton and Liverpool.

I'd say thats a tall enough order for starters.

Negative nonsense.

Chelsea will do well to finish above us after we played them off the park in the first half today. Why does only the second half count?

Of course it will be tough, Chelsea will be up there, so will the other usual suspects. But to talk down our chances like that is ridiculous. We went to Villa with our reserves and absolutely romped home while Emirates Marketing Project couldn't beat them with all their injuries. United have just lost at home to West Brom. Arsenal are looking good but they've been on good runs before and faltered - and let's not forget they lost at home to Villa in the first game.

Every team is capable of dropping points including them and including us. There's no reason we are behind any of them though. I would say the only big weakness is behind the striker where today Chelsea looked to have more strength in abundance. But if Siggy keeps improving the way he is, Chadli proves himself (I have nothing to base this on other than the fact we signed him during the 'big push' summer so we must think he has the quality to take us to where we want to go) and Lamela settles then we don't look too bad there at all.

 

[Modric THFC]

Stats show that this is our best start to a league season since 2002/03 when we also had 13 points and were sitting 2nd in the table behind Arsenal after 6 games. We ended up finishing 10th.

 

[suffolkspur]

I highly doubt we will but there's no reason why we can't dream a little.

I seriously think this is going to be a 5 way *sc rap* (i'm not convinced at all by Liverpool like some). Normally you would expect a couple of shock results at the start of the season but the top teams have all dropped a lot of points already, continue to look poor to average and i don't think anyone has stood out from the crowd. Even with Arsenal topping the table currently they haven't really dominated teams and could quite easily have dropped points in some of the matches i've seen of them.

I've seen alot of comments from people saying we have ONLY beaten the likes of palace, swansea, cardiff, norwich but these are the kind of teams that those who were supposed to have been challenging for the league have lost this year. If we continue to dispose of these teams then we give ourselves every chance of being up there.

Not getting carried away though. I believe we have the strongest squad we have had since i have been a supporter but theres alot of work to do and a long way to go. If we continue to progress and our players continue to improve then i think next year is on but this year top 3-4 should be within our grasp at the very least.

 

[the dza]

We need a winning mentality -- winning games or league titles in other countries doesn't count, so AVB, Vert, Eriksen etc. can all do one.

It's why nobody has ever won the league. The very 1st league championship, nobody had won it before, so therefore, nobody had a winning mentality. Everybody lost. This was repeated the following season until some point in the 1970's, when someone bestowed a winning mentality upon Liverpool via Lawro's tash. Liverpool then went on to win lots.

Then Utd employed a drunken Glaswegian by the name of Slur Fergus. Not winning much in his first few years in charge gave them the winning mentality that they needed to then win lots of trophies. They carry this with them to the present day, with the trophy-less David Moyes guiding them to such stunning results as a 1-2 (non) win against West Brom at home.

Of course, there are other rivals. Wenger has waited 8 years or more to build the winning mentality in his latest Arsenal side. They started as they meant to go on with a 1-3 (non) win at home to Villa.

Pellegrini meanwhile has at least 1 Intertoto Cup to his name -- I assume this was won with Real Madrid, where he would have forged his own winning mentality. City have won the league recently, but only after not winning it for a few decades (this is key). They spent some money or something, I think they bought a winning mentality but they have lost it somewhere. Still, they are doing pretty well away from home, with (non) wins v Cardiff and Villa. Consistency is the key, and they are certainly doing the business.

Then we have Jose and his mob. Obviously, in a different footballing realm to us, I'd expect them to comprehensively beat us when we meet, and no doubt they are top of the league by many points at this early stage. The skilful man-management of Mata should be enough for them.

I think you'll agree, it's hopeless. Winning games just isn't enough. We need to try and not win them with the right mentality. This is what our rivals are doing. The thick, lustrous hair of AVB isn't enough -- this isn't Portugal and we aren't playing Europa League football here. Your past trophies count for f**k all mate!

 

[SpurMeUp]

We lack maturity. A new young team and also a young manager. We have the talent. I hope we can develop the mentality. What made Ferguson so good? For me, he was a psychologist (for want of a better term). He could get players motivated and manipulate them - getting them charged up at the right time - and mentally in the right place.

Today we cam out second half without the right mentality. We were in the lead and didn't know what to do with it.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

We need a winning mentality -- winning games or league titles in other countries doesn't count, so AVB, Vert, Eriksen etc. can all do one.

It's why nobody has ever won the league. The very 1st league championship, nobody had won it before, so therefore, nobody had a winning mentality. Everybody lost. This was repeated the following season until some point in the 1970's, when someone bestowed a winning mentality upon Liverpool via Lawro's tash. Liverpool then went on to win lots.

Then Utd employed a drunken Glaswegian by the name of Slur Fergus. Not winning much in his first few years in charge gave them the winning mentality that they needed to then win lots of trophies. They carry this with them to the present day, with the trophy-less David Moyes guiding them to such stunning results as a 1-2 (non) win against West Brom at home.

Of course, there are other rivals. Wenger has waited 8 years or more to build the winning mentality in his latest Arsenal side. They started as they meant to go on with a 1-3 (non) win at home to Villa.

Pellegrini meanwhile has at least 1 Intertoto Cup to his name -- I assume this was won with Real Madrid, where he would have forged his own winning mentality. City have won the league recently, but only after not winning it for a few decades (this is key). They spent some money or something, I think they bought a winning mentality but they have lost it somewhere. Still, they are doing pretty well away from home, with (non) wins v Cardiff and Villa. Consistency is the key, and they are certainly doing the business.

Then we have Jose and his mob. Obviously, in a different footballing realm to us, I'd expect them to comprehensively beat us when we meet, and no doubt they are top of the league by many points at this early stage. The skilful man-management of Mata should be enough for them.

I think you'll agree, it's hopeless. Winning games just isn't enough. We need to try and not win them with the right mentality. This is what our rivals are doing. The thick, lustrous hair of AVB isn't enough -- this isn't Portugal and we aren't playing Europa League football here. Your past trophies count for f**k all mate!

:ross:

 

[BrainOfLevy]

We lack maturity. A new young team and also a young manager. We have the talent. I hope we can develop the mentality. What made Ferguson so good? For me, he was a psychologist (for want of a better term). He could get players motivated and manipulate them - getting them charged up at the right time - and mentally in the right place.

Today we cam out second half without the right mentality. We were in the lead and didn't know what to do with it.

:ross: :ross: :ross:

So many laughs because of the post previous, not sure if this one is intentional?

 

[fishnc]

We lack maturity. A new young team and also a young manager. We have the talent. I hope we can develop the mentality. What made Ferguson so good? For me, he was a psychologist (for want of a better term). He could get players motivated and manipulate them - getting them charged up at the right time - and mentally in the right place.

Today we cam out second half without the right mentality. We were in the lead and didn't know what to do with it.

Yep. We stopped playing to win and started playing not to lose.

 

[Jordinho]

I think we can all agree that there's no standout team so far, certainly no team that's clearly superior to us. Keep on beating the dross and who knows what might happen...

 

[SpurMeUp]

:ross: :ross: :ross:

So many laughs because of the post previous, not sure if this one is intentional?

The post wasn't there when I started - great minds and all that!

We've come a long way - drawing to chelsea used to be a result. Now the team will be disappointed. Hopefully we learn from it.

I'm no expert on Furguson, but I think he would get players to think at half time, about what a let down it would be to the fans and to themselves, if they to lost or drew this game. Then get them to emerge from the tunnel with a fighting spirit. Shoring up the midfield - whether thats Eriksen dropping deep or making a sub - may have also made a difference.

All in all - everything to play for - and with each game our team should grow and learn a little more.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

The post wasn't there when I started - great minds and all that!

We've come a long way - drawing to chelsea used to be a result. Now the team will be disappointed. Hopefully we learn from it.

I'm no expert on Furguson, but I think he would get players to think at half time, about what a let down it would be to the fans and to themselves, if they to lost or drew this game. Then get them to emerge from the tunnel with a fighting spirit. Shoring up the midfield - whether thats Eriksen dropping deep or making a sub - may have also made a difference.

All in all - everything to play for - and with each game our team should grow and learn a little more.

I guess that's what he did when he lost 6-1 at home to his biggest rivals?

I just feel like everyone builds up these other clubs, whether it's spirit, mentality, clever management etc, as reasons why we can't get there. Well I really think we can. We have a clever manager and we have players who look like winners to me.

 

[Armchair Expert]

I guess that's what he did when he lost 6-1 at home to his biggest rivals?

I just feel like everyone builds up these other clubs, whether it's spirit, mentality, clever management etc, as reasons why we can't get there. Well I really think we can. We have a clever manager and we have players who look like winners to me.

People aren't building up other clubs, they're just being realistic. I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that we won't win the league this year - because we won't. We're not going to, its as simple as that.

Lets wait and see; when we start going to places like Everton, Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Liverpool and picking up results then maybe you'll have a stronger claim. At the moment we have lost our best player, have a whole new squad, lamela isnt ready, soldado isnt scoring, eriksen has been good for 1.5 games. In our two games against "direct" rivals we have 1 point. Chelsea have already played Spurs, Man Utd and Everton away. Thats a chunk of games to have behind you already.

Still i guess if we don't all post "fcuk it, we can do this" and completely throw subjectivity out of the window, then we're all just speaking "negative nonsense."

We'll see. When we're 5th at Christmas level on points with Liverpool, Everton and Southampton we'll see how our title push is looking.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Anything is possible. The chances of us winning the league are calculated by bookies. We're not the most likely to win the legue. The probability of us winning can be guessed /calculated by looking at our previous records, our current performances, cluib stature and finances etc. We have an outside chance.

To win, we have to have a steep learning curve. And develop quickly. We don't score enough goals currently and need to develop a mentality where we see out a lead, build upon it and close the game. That was the thing yesterday, champions close out games like that where they take the lead. If we learn from it, and come back that much stronger and more determined...who knows.

 

[Spursalot]

People aren't building up other clubs, they're just being realistic. I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that we won't win the league this year - because we won't. We're not going to, its as simple as that.

Lets wait and see; when we start going to places like Everton, Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Liverpool and picking up results then maybe you'll have a stronger claim. At the moment we have lost our best player, have a whole new squad, lamela isnt ready, soldado isnt scoring, eriksen has been good for 1.5 games. In our two games against "direct" rivals we have 1 point. Chelsea have already played Spurs, Man Utd and Everton away. Thats a chunk of games to have behind you already.

Still i guess if we don't all post "fcuk it, we can do this" and completely throw subjectivity out of the window, then we're all just speaking "negative nonsense."

We'll see. When we're 5th at Christmas level on points with Liverpool, Everton and Southampton we'll see how our title push is looking.

I would agree it would make sense to bet against us winning it. However it's mostly because at the moment there are six teams who I think have a decent chance of winning it. Statistically speaking those aren't great odds. We are one of those six.

You say that We have had poor results against top four opponents and then state that Chelsea have three difficult games behind them. This baffle me, as in those three games Chelsea have been equally poor against top four opposition. They have two draws and one loss. That is hardly playing well. Granted they were away, but i wouldn't be surprised if we picked up more than 2 points in those three away games, you only have to win one of them to surpass how well Chelsea have done. In my mind they have dropped seven points there that are still all attainable for us.

If we play to our ability I see no reason we can't beat them at their own places.


We're currently grinding out results. I wouldn't say we've had a particularly poor result thus far, we lost to arsenal and drew with Chelsea. That's all. The league is won against the bottom half teams usually. Barring record high points tallies.

 

[metalgear]

just wondering if all you have seen this from AVB himself where he speaks about realistic expectations after our significant investments - http://bcove.me/y6y2mw13

i'm totally with AVB on this point. we can hope for the title, but this season its just too soon. a lot to do to work the new players in, weed out any unexpected kinks, and then evolve from there. when he says we don't have the experience to win the title i believe it not just the players he is refering to, but also the back room staff - medical, scouts, coaching who are critical in helping a team regenerate itself throughout a season that includes trips to Europe, fixture pile ups, and eventually late season fatigue and sustaining the competitive mentality.

 

[onlyme]

If I was a betting man I would not have a penny on Spurs winning the EPL. But I wonder what the odds were on a Swansea win and Wigan cup final double last year?

 

[BrainOfLevy]

People aren't building up other clubs, they're just being realistic. I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that we won't win the league this year - because we won't. We're not going to, its as simple as that.

Lets wait and see; when we start going to places like Everton, Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Liverpool and picking up results then maybe you'll have a stronger claim. At the moment we have lost our best player, have a whole new squad, lamela isnt ready, soldado isnt scoring, eriksen has been good for 1.5 games. In our two games against "direct" rivals we have 1 point. Chelsea have already played Spurs, Man Utd and Everton away. Thats a chunk of games to have behind you already.

Still i guess if we don't all post "fcuk it, we can do this" and completely throw subjectivity out of the window, then we're all just speaking "negative nonsense."

We'll see. When we're 5th at Christmas level on points with Liverpool, Everton and Southampton we'll see how our title push is looking.

When you're saying 'we won't win the league, not a hope in hell' and listing all these reasons why other clubs are so great when; Chelsea have failed to win against top 4 rivals as well, Emirates Marketing Project have already managed to lose at Cardiff and Villa and dropped points at Stoke and Man United...well just look at them. Out of the challengers only Arsenal look really good and even they have shown they can lose at hem to Villa, they are riding a wave of good form at the moment but let's see what happens when they come off of it. Frankly if they sustain it, fair to them.

I'd argue I am being more realistic than you by saying we have a chance. Its all I'm saying, not that we are definitely going to romp the league. Why are we going to be 5th and level on points with Southampton at Christmas? What possible reason do you have to say that it will be us in 5th and not one of our rivals? That's the kind of negative nonsense I'm talking about. 'Not a hope in hell' for goodness sake!

 

[the dza]

People aren't building up other clubs, they're just being realistic. I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that we won't win the league this year - because we won't. We're not going to, its as simple as that.

Lets wait and see; when we start going to places like Everton, Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Liverpool and picking up results then maybe you'll have a stronger claim. At the moment we have lost our best player, have a whole new squad, lamela isnt ready, soldado isnt scoring, eriksen has been good for 1.5 games. In our two games against "direct" rivals we have 1 point. Chelsea have already played Spurs, Man Utd and Everton away. Thats a chunk of games to have behind you already.

Still i guess if we don't all post "fcuk it, we can do this" and completely throw subjectivity out of the window, then we're all just speaking "negative nonsense."

We'll see. When we're 5th at Christmas level on points with Liverpool, Everton and Southampton we'll see how our title push is looking.

Interesting.

At the moment we have lost our best player, have a whole new squad, lamela isnt ready, soldado isnt scoring, eriksen has been good for 1.5 games. In our two games against "direct" rivals we have 1 point.

And despite all that, we've taken 13 points from 18, beaten all the teams we "should" beat, conceded twice in all competitions (1 goal each against sides currently 1st and 3rd in the table) and we sit 2nd. No doubt, if we were Man Utd, people would be saying "look how many points they can pick up, they haven't even hit their stride yet!"

Nobody can say that we WILL win the league, but I can't see how you are certain that we won't even compete. I haven't seen anything to suggest that we won't be up there. Quite the opposite.

 

[Roland Beurre]

If you want to bet against Spurs winning the title, you can. On Betfair, you can "lay them" at 9/1 at present.

I am one of those pessimistic/realistic types who never expects Spurs to win the title and, as such, I normally start each season taking bets (on Betfair) from punters wanting to back them for the title. However, this year, following the Bale sale, I would have had to lay them at 40/1, which was just a ridiculously large price.

In the end, I backed them at 37/1 to win the title, though subsequently I have laid that off so that, now, I would lose £288 were Spurs to win the title (a bet I am happy to lose!).

At the moment, Spurs are fifth favourites to win the league, and are being quoted at what I consider to be a realistic price for the title.

Liverpool, at 13/1, are stingily priced, in my view. I would be a seller at that price and a buyer at 25/1.

The point of all this tedious bragging about my betting escapades (a fiver on the Wenger boys at 20/1 after their first game defeat has been my best value bet) is to demonstrate that Spurs are quoted at a price that suggests they are realistic title contenders, even if they are ranked fifth of the six teams deemed to be in with the shout.

More importantly, they are not down there with the likes of Everton (160/1) as the sort of long shots that only deluded fans would bet on.

That represents real progress from the dark days of the Alan Sugar era (grateful though I am for him saving Spurs from being taken over by Robert Maxwell).

So, as PdC might say, keep your chin up.

P.S. On the subject of bragging about my bets, I should also observe that I usually bet against Spurs keeping a clean sheet each game. It has cost me an absolute fortune this year and far outweighs any money I am likely to make backing/laying contenders for the title.

 

[spurs' magna carter]

Tottenham 0-3 West Ham.

Yeah, we're real title contenders.

:ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: :ross: