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Summer Transfer Strategy

glorygloryeze said:
Probably because it has always Vertonghen that has periods where he is unreliable for several late season mathes at a time AND the fact he has rarely been as consistent as Toby has been this year.
Also, you take Toby away from being alongside Vertonghen: do you trust him to be the dominant leader at the back or to start playing more inconsistently?
If it was Toby injured in January instead, do you HONESTLY believe we would have been able to maintain our defensive strength in the way we did when it was Vertonghen that was injured?

I'd be happy to sell Vertonghen if we could get a defender who is pacier AND better in the air, even if he wasn't as good on the ball. Vertonghen is too flaky for my liking when the going gets tough.
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I wouldn't necessarily judge Vertonghen on previous seasons under different managers, being shunted around different positions and playing with different (often poor) partners. I would judge him instead on his performances this season alongside Alderweireld and I don't recall seeing a bad performance from Vertonghen this season?

Alderweireld was of course absolutely impeccable for the entire season, but then terrible in the last four games.... However for some reason because Alderweireld played poorly in the last four games certain people seem to think we should sell Vertonghen?!? That just doesn't make any sense at all.

Prior to the last four games I don't think a single person on here would've advocated us selling Vertonghen, but suddenly after a few poor performances from Alderweireld this has changed. Why?!?

It appears to me that both Vertonghen and to just as great an extent Walker are being used as spacegoats for our poor end to the season, despite the fact that the pair of them were well down the list on terms of those performing poorly over those last four games.

I think if we were to sell either/both of Vertonghen/Walker we wouldn't be able to replace them with players who are as good as they are.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I wouldn't necessarily judge Vertonghen on previous seasons under different managers, being shunted around different positions and playing with different (often poor) partners. I would judge him instead on his performances this season alongside Alderweireld and I don't recall seeing a bad performance from Vertonghen this season?

Alderweireld was of course absolutely impeccable for the entire season, but then terrible in the last four games.... However for some reason because Alderweireld played poorly in the last four games certain people seem to think we should sell Vertonghen?!? That just doesn't make any sense at all.

Prior to the last four games I don't think a single person on here would've advocated us selling Vertonghen, but suddenly after a few poor performances from Alderweireld this has changed. Why?!?

It appears to me that both Vertonghen and to just as great an extent Walker are being used as escaped goats for our poor end to the season, despite the fact that the pair of them were well down the list on terms of those performing poorly over those last four games.

I think if we were to sell either/both of Vertonghen/Walker we wouldn't be able to replace them with players who are as good as they are.
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You don't think Vertonghen was poor vs Soton and esp Saudi Sportswashing Machine?? I agree that Alderwiereld has had a dip, but so has Vertonghen imo...and it's a similar that we've seen before when we needed him to step up (and at least play better to counter Alderweireld's drop in form)
 
glorygloryeze said:
You don't think Vertonghen was poor vs Soton and esp Saudi Sportswashing Machine?? I agree that Alderwiereld has had a dip, but so has Vertonghen imo...and it's a similar that we've seen before when we needed him to step up (and at least play better to counter Alderweireld's drop in form)
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I thought that he was better than Alderweireld in both games. I also thought he was better than Alderweireld against WBA and Chelsea. But Alderweireld is our new hero, so his poor performances must be because of somebody else. Maybe they weren't Vertonghen's fault at all.... let's blame Walker instead.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I thought that he was better than Alderweireld in both games. I also thought he was better than Alderweireld against WBA and Chelsea. But Alderweireld is our new hero, so his poor performances must be because of somebody else. Maybe they weren't Vertonghen's fault at all.... let's blame Walker instead.
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I disagree re Vertonghen, but i am a bit biased by his history i must admit.
I agree about the spacegoating of Walker though
 
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Finney Is Back said:
I thought that he was better than Alderweireld in both games. I also thought he was better than Alderweireld against WBA and Chelsea. But Alderweireld is our new hero, so his poor performances must be because of somebody else. Maybe they weren't Vertonghen's fault at all.... let's blame Walker instead.
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Wouldn't scape goat walker or verts at all. Agree the actions of Dembele and alli were stupid and I don't condone them. That said I am not averse to the use of the "dark arts" which I believe the Lamela "walk over" was an example of. It surprises me if you are not one who agrees with the actions of dembele and Alli, and lamela you would tolerate the kind of shameless, petty baiting which Verthonghen often engages in and is lucky not to have been sent off for. I don't rate Vertonghen particularly highly as a Central Defender, he's not particularly fast or very dominant in the air and imo more prone to lapses in concentration than Toby. It's interesting that Wimmer came in for him and it made very little difference to our defence or attack. He's a good player but I want us to bring in a centre back who is dominant in the air so I am comfortable with Vertonghen being replaced.
 
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Robspur12 said:
Wouldn't scape goat walker or verts at all. Agree the actions of Dembele and alli were stupid and I don't condone them. That said I am not averse to the use of the "dark arts" which I believe the Lamela "walk over" was an example of. It surprises me if you are not one who agrees with the actions of dembele and Alli, and lamela you would tolerate the kind of shameless, petty baiting which Verthonghen often engages in and is lucky not to have been sent off for. I don't rate Vertonghen particularly highly as a Central Defender, he's not particularly fast or very dominant in the air and imo more prone to lapses in concentration than Toby. It's interesting that Wimmer came in for him and it made very little difference to our defence or attack. He's a good player but I want us to bring in a centre back who is dominant in the air so I am comfortable with Vertonghen being replaced.
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Sorry I don't follow some of that?

Wimmer did indeed come in for Vertonghen without it really making a difference to our defence or attack. Vertonghen then came back into the defence and the same pattern continued.... Alderweireld's performance then dropped off in the last 3 or 4 games. Do you think that if Wimmer was playing instead of Vertonghen in those last games he would've been able to mask Alderweireld's drop off in performance? That seems to be what you are suggesting?
 
Finney Is Back said:
Sorry I don't follow some of that?

Wimmer did indeed come in for Vertonghen without it really making a difference to our defence or attack. Vertonghen then came back into the defence and the same pattern continued.... Alderweireld's performance then dropped off in the last 3 or 4 games. Do you think that if Wimmer was playing instead of Vertonghen in those last games he would've been able to mask Alderweireld's drop off in performance? That seems to be what you are suggesting?
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All I was suggesting was that replacing Vertonghen with Wimmer made very little difference to us. Therefore imo Vertongen does not bring anything special to the side, certainly nothing that cannot be replaced. Alderweireld's form did drop off but I still believe over the course of the season he will be the more consistent defender. He also offers a greater offensive threat from set pieces.
 
Robspur12 said:
All I was suggesting was that replacing Vertonghen with Wimmer made very little difference to us. Therefore imo Vertongen does not bring anything special to the side, certainly nothing that cannot be replaced. Alderweireld's form did drop off but I still believe over the course of the season he will be the more consistent defender. He also offers a greater offensive threat from set pieces.
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Fair enough... So we sell Vertonghen, Wimmer comes into the side as first choice, who do we now bring in to provide cover to Wimmer?
 
Finney Is Back said:
Fair enough... So we sell Vertonghen, Wimmer comes into the side as first choice, who do we now bring in to provide cover to Wimmer?
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Like I said earlier in thread I would like to see a centre back brought in who can provide the team with more aerial dominance since it appears we give a way goals from corners rather too frequently.
 
Finney Is Back said:
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I also don't understand anyone who wouldn't mind losing Vertonghen. It was Alderweireld who played poorly in the last four games and yet somehow it seems that somehow Vertonghen has taken the blame for this? It makes no sense at all.
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Well apparently he has poor body language ( according to the body experts) ;)
 
Robspur12 said:
Like I said earlier in thread I would like to see a centre back brought in who can provide the team with more aerial dominance since it appears we give a way goals from corners rather too frequently.
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To play instead of Wimmer or Alderweireld? (seeing as you've sold Vertonghen).
 
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