Spurs in UCL if league is scrapped?

[Bedfordspurs]

Even with two full backs who are good defensively we will still have a huge hole in the most dangerous area of the pitch. Perhaps Mourinho can give Winks (a lot of) coaching so that he actually maintains position instead of chasing around all over the pitch, he could then probably do a job there. However I think it is far more sensible to buy a player who already has the right mindset. Kalvin Phillips from Leeds would be absolutely perfect for us here I think.

Many goals we concede have an initial cause of it being so easy for opponents to ease the ball into good positions against us by simply getting one of their attacking players to drop into the huge chasm that exists between our centre halves and central midfield. We often see opposition players on the ball in central attacking positions with a diameter of 10 yards or more space around them. Those are the sort of attacking positions that every team works hard to create. Team's don't have to work hard to create those positions against us, one of a team's two wide forwards or their number 10 simply has to drift into that area of the pitch and they're automatically in space. Two of Wolves' goals for example (that I think you blamed on the fullbacks) were perfect examples of teams easily getting into fantastic attacking positions centrally and then us being in big trouble straight away.

I maintain that if we put a proper DM into our team then we would probably immediately be 30% better. If we swapped (e.g) Aurier for Aarons I think we would be only be a few percet better.

As I’ve said before i disagree
You can have Kante there
He cannot cover the ground needed for someone as ill disciplined as aurier
And if he is covering there (like sissoko has Done many many times) there is a gaping hole in the middle.
Add in Ben Davies confidence crisis where he doesn’t know whether to tackle or check so does neither as their a huge issues
Winks may not be the answer but we could play 2 DMs and have those issues wide
its why with Meunière becoming available he looks like being our first signing.
The Volume of chances we have conceded have coincided with the change to two woeful full backs who concede those chances... and it’s of because teams are playing clever passes behind them. It’s because they let the wide players over load or just do a basic job

I’ll also add having someone who can hold ten ball in attack will help fix issues too as it’s been too easy for teams to bypass any effort form our so called attacking set up and switch wide

 

[MKSpur]

As I’ve said before i disagree
You can have Kante there
He cannot cover the ground needed for someone as ill disciplined as aurier
And if he is covering there (like sissoko has Done many many times) there is a gaping hole in the middle.
Add in Ben Davies confidence crisis where he doesn’t know whether to tackle or check so does neither as their a huge issues
Winks may not be the answer but we could play 2 DMs and have those issues wide
its why with Meunière becoming available he looks like being our first signing.
The Volume of chances we have conceded have coincided with the change to two woeful full backs who concede those chances... and it’s of because teams are playing clever passes behind them. It’s because they let the wide players over load or just do a basic job

I’ll also add having someone who can hold ten ball in attack will help fix issues too as it’s been too easy for teams to bypass any effort form our so called attacking set up and switch wide

serious fish out of water fears...

 

[Raziel]

I just think that’s the cards he has to play currently

and as I’ve said again loads the best DM in the world can’t cover for Aurier and his lack of any awareness
Add in a LB who isn’t decisive and their both really really weak. We concede so many chances from teams attacking our FBs and so little form teams playing through the middle

Yeah, somewhat to @Finney Is Back's line of thought

- What I see as Jose trying to do is -> Defensive FB, CB, CB, Attacking RB with a DM (he tried Dier in that role)
- In that model the 3 that sit can shift and almost be 3 CB's when the attacking RB is overcommitted (or out of position), add a reasonably mobile DB and it's effectively 4 players covering

My worry (a little less with Jose) is if we swap to defensively competent FBs that are positionally aware, the the attack/width has to come out of the AM players (which we have a lot of)

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Yeah, somewhat to @Finney Is Back's line of thought

- What I see as Jose trying to do is -> Defensive FB, CB, CB, Attacking RB with a DM (he tried Dier in that role)
- In that model the 3 that sit can shift and almost be 3 CB's when the attacking RB is overcommitted (or out of position), add a reasonably mobile DB and it's effectively 4 players covering

My worry (a little less with Jose) is if we swap to defensively competent FBs that are positionally aware, the the attack/width has to come out of the AM players (which we have a lot of)

We have played that with sissoko covering And he is as mobile as it gets
The problem comes that with Aurier once a player is past him they have 2 or 3 on one and he just trots back. It’s constant. It’s why his error stats are low as you can’t be accountable if your not in the right place

Modern FBs can’t excel at one thing and just be very weak at the other at this level. Aurier doesn’t really excel at attacking and Davies this season has no redeeming features

the attacking width can come form full backs still if their willing to work hard. Look at the 2 at Norwich vs us in the cup. They ran and ran and ran and embarrassed ours

 

[Finney Is Back]

We have played that with sissoko covering And he is as mobile as it gets
The problem comes that with Aurier once a player is past him they have 2 or 3 on one and he just trots back. It’s constant. It’s why his error stats are low as you can’t be accountable if your not in the right place

Modern FBs can’t excel at one thing and just be very weak at the other at this level. Aurier doesn’t really excel at attacking and Davies this season has no redeeming features

the attacking width can come form full backs still if their willing to work hard. Look at the 2 at Norwich vs us in the cup. They ran and ran and ran and embarrassed ours

It's not about a payer 'covering'. It's about having a player who has the positional sense to play there, along with the mobility and physicality to make a difference (ideally the player should also be press resistent). Sissoko has the mobility and physicality but neither of the other two. (Kalvin Phillips has all of these qualities and is an excellent long passer of the ball as well as having some dribbling ability).

From what I have seen of our shape under Mourinho it appears to me that in many games he has detailed Aurier to defend against the the opposition's left full back when they get forward as opposed to their left sided forward. Whereas on the other side of the pitch our left sided full back is instead asked to defend against their wide forward with our left sided attacking player (Son or Bergwjin) detailed to track the right sided full back (which they don't always do).

 

[Finney Is Back]

As I’ve said before i disagree
You can have Kante there
He cannot cover the ground needed for someone as ill disciplined as aurier
And if he is covering there (like sissoko has Done many many times) there is a gaping hole in the middle.
Add in Ben Davies confidence crisis where he doesn’t know whether to tackle or check so does neither as their a huge issues
Winks may not be the answer but we could play 2 DMs and have those issues wide
its why with Meunière becoming available he looks like being our first signing.
The Volume of chances we have conceded have coincided with the change to two woeful full backs who concede those chances... and it’s of because teams are playing clever passes behind them. It’s because they let the wide players over load or just do a basic job

I’ll also add having someone who can hold ten ball in attack will help fix issues too as it’s been too easy for teams to bypass any effort form our so called attacking set up and switch wide

Put (a fit) Wanyama in this Spurs team and we'd be excellent straight away. Full backs and an additional centre half would then be the icing on the cake.

The full backs get exposed for us because the opposition can get on the ball with time and space in central attacking areas. From there it opens up easy balls between the centre halves and full backs, made even easier as typically one of the centre halves will have to come out to try to close down that player creating space in behind.

Winks would only be the answer if he adds bundles of defensive positional discipline (he has none currently). When he did his mad one man press against Wolves on a player in Wolves half of the pitch while leaving a huge space in behind and a Wolves player completely free in that space it summed up for that he either isn't the right player or certainly won't be until he has had a lot of coaching.

Meunier is a worthwhile option on the right on a free. Just as I would advocate also taking Kurzawa on the left on a free. Him being free is probably what will make him our first signing however. If a reasonable holding player was also available on a free then I think he would be similarly early to be signed. It wouldn't surprise me if Mourinho went after Holjbjerg from Southampton in the fact that he is a proper DM, fit, proven in the PL and only has a year left on his contract so should be available for a reasonable fee.

Having somebody who could hold the ball in attack should mean we face less pressure but won't fix the gaping hole in the middle that we have.

The volume of chances we concede has coincided with a number of things, not just the full backs (No Wanyama and Dembele anymore for example who gave us the strong centre of midfield in the league).

I agree 100% with you that we need better full backs. However replacing these two players while leaving that chasm of space in the centre will not get us back into the top four.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

It's not about a payer 'covering'. It's about having a player who has the positional sense to play there, along with the mobility and physicality to make a difference (ideally the player should also be press resistent). Sissoko has the mobility and physicality but neither of the other two. (Kalvin Phillips has all of these qualities and is an excellent long passer of the ball as well as having some dribbling ability).

From what I have seen of our shape under Mourinho it appears to me that in many games he has detailed Aurier to defend against the the opposition's left full back when they get forward as opposed to their left sided forward. Whereas on the other side of the pitch our left sided full back is instead asked to defend against their wide forward with our left sided attacking player (Son or Bergwjin) detailed to track the right sided full back (which they don't always do).

I agree
That’s because generally the left back is the least affective option and also because he knows Aurier is lazy as fudge and won’t track back
United demolished us down our right
Bayern demolishes is down our right
Wolves... two their full backs created the chances and even scored one by going wide and putting the ball in or following up and scoring ...
We concede chance after chance form players attacking and beating our full backs
A DM even being well positioned can’t cover for them being that bad defensively

 

[Raziel]

I agree
That’s because generally the left back is the least affective option and also because he knows Aurier is lazy as fudge and won’t track back
United demolished us down our right
Bayern demolishes is down our right
Wolves... two their full backs created the chances and even scored one by going wide and putting the ball in or following up and scoring ...
We concede chance after chance form players attacking and beating our full backs
A DM even being well positioned can’t cover for them being that bad defensively

All valid points, but a good DM will make an impact

- Will reduce the space to play into infront of CBs and will reduce the chances of CB being exposed to 1:1 or 2:2 type scenarios
- The CB's knowing that will be able to deal with wider threats better vs. trying to cover everything

I think we keep visualizing Spurs as the wreck of a side with so many injuries that barely managed to put a team out the last month or so of playing.

- Fully fit team has a lot of attacking options, which in itself pins the opponents back somewhat (Son, Lucas, SB all running at you will make you think twice about overcommitting)
- I'm really hopeful Jan and Toby (or just Toby if Jan leaves) will get the most out of this break, not sure when in their careers they got 2-3 months of no contact and matches
- We will have Sissoko back as an option
- Add a DM and FB option for next season, I think people will be surprised at this team ..

The other intangible is the mental break, we were stuck in a fudging death spiral for a year, hopefully the guys have had time to clear their heads, think about other things and when they come back be ready.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

All valid points, but a good DM will make an impact

- Will reduce the space to play into infront of CBs and will reduce the chances of CB being exposed to 1:1 or 2:2 type scenarios
- The CB's knowing that will be able to deal with wider threats better vs. trying to cover everything

I think we keep visualizing Spurs as the wreck of a side with so many injuries that barely managed to put a team out the last month or so of playing.

- Fully fit team has a lot of attacking options, which in itself pins the opponents back somewhat (Son, Lucas, SB all running at you will make you think twice about overcommitting)
- I'm really hopeful Jan and Toby (or just Toby if Jan leaves) will get the most out of this break, not sure when in their careers they got 2-3 months of no contact and matches
- We will have Sissoko back as an option
- Add a DM and FB option for next season, I think people will be surprised at this team ..

The other intangible is the mental break, we were stuck in a fudging death spiral for a year, hopefully the guys have had time to clear their heads, think about other things and when they come back be ready.

A good DM would do that I agree
I’d also say that the CM looms balanced with Winks and Lo Celso.. and a DM there and it could be brilliant and we then can free up one of them or rest them
And your right too it’s easy to judge a broken team as that fresh in out memories

But it still doesn’t hide the fact that our FBs are worse than Norwich’s who are bottom of the league

we concede the most goals from individual mistakes. That’s not mistakes being made under pressure either. Their basic errors and again I’ll say a DM doesn’t make defenders competent. It can protect them but it doesn’t stop their inability to do the basics

When your dissect our defence we have :
Hugo - makes match winning saves and goal conceding errors ...
Davies - potentially steady and had a great season 2 years ago. Now can’t decide what to do
Rose - gone
Sessegnon - not a LB currently
Verts - legs gone and out of contract
Toby - got a contract but still can’t run and weak in the air
Sanchez - can’t pass a ball and actually weak too against physical players
Foyth - thought he would step into RB this season but neither Poch or Jose seem to want to play him there which is ominous
Aurier - what can be said... brain dead and brilliant at times. Can cross well but lazy as fudge. Needs covering more than Dianne Abbott
KWP - not even wanted by Southampton
Tanganga - a bright light in that we actually have a defender who likes to defend and does it on the front foot. Potentially could be our Ivanovic
Dier may well now be seen as a CB - if so then he looked better towards the last games he played but not sure he is the answer
Our reserve keepers need refreshing and we need an English lesson British player there to free up signings from overseas

 

[Raziel]

A good DM would do that I agree
I’d also say that the CM looms balanced with Winks and Lo Celso.. and a DM there and it could be brilliant and we then can free up one of them or rest them
And your right too it’s easy to judge a broken team as that fresh in out memories

But it still doesn’t hide the fact that our FBs are worse than Norwich’s who are bottom of the league

we concede the most goals from individual mistakes. That’s not mistakes being made under pressure either. Their basic errors and again I’ll say a DM doesn’t make defenders competent. It can protect them but it doesn’t stop their inability to do the basics

When your dissect our defence we have :
Hugo - makes match winning saves and goal conceding errors ...
Davies - potentially steady and had a great season 2 years ago. Now can’t decide what to do
Rose - gone
Sessegnon - not a LB currently
Verts - legs gone and out of contract
Toby - got a contract but still can’t run and weak in the air
Sanchez - can’t pass a ball and actually weak too against physical players
Foyth - thought he would step into RB this season but neither Poch or Jose seem to want to play him there which is ominous
Aurier - what can be said... brain dead and brilliant at times. Can cross well but lazy as fudge. Needs covering more than Dianne Abbott
KWP - not even wanted by Southampton
Tanganga - a bright light in that we actually have a defender who likes to defend and does it on the front foot. Potentially could be our Ivanovic
Dier may well now be seen as a CB - if so then he looked better towards the last games he played but not sure he is the answer
Our reserve keepers need refreshing and we need an English lesson British player there to free up signings from overseas

Man that is a depressing point of view .. Individual errors have hurt us but I don't think it's all down to player being bad, confidence, fatigue, injuries all play a part

If I look at your list

Lloris - I don't see us getting better and not high enough of a priority from my perspective, better focus on next generation, the reserve keepers
Rose, Jan, KWP, Foyth all look to be gone
Toby can still play a part, for me another 6 months as starter slowly transitioning to backup/rotating
Sanchez, still young and actually a very good defender with lots of pace (I agree with your assessment re he sometimes seems to try to get physical with attackers and loses out), his errors can be training out
Tanganga, think he should be the Sanchez partner moving forward, see the transition from Toby statement
Dier/Davies are ideally squad players
Aurier similar can have a role, but we probably need someone who can defend better for tougher games

So I look at it
- New LB (if we don't see Sessegnon as ready), Reserve keeper, New RB and a DM (with last two being biggest priority)

Not as bad as it could be ..

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Man that is a depressing point of view .. Individual errors have hurt us but I don't think it's all down to player being bad, confidence, fatigue, injuries all play a part

If I look at your list

Lloris - I don't see us getting better and not high enough of a priority from my perspective, better focus on next generation, the reserve keepers
Rose, Jan, KWP, Foyth all look to be gone
Toby can still play a part, for me another 6 months as starter slowly transitioning to backup/rotating
Sanchez, still young and actually a very good defender with lots of pace (I agree with your assessment re he sometimes seems to try to get physical with attackers and loses out), his errors can be training out
Tanganga, think he should be the Sanchez partner moving forward, see the transition from Toby statement
Dier/Davies are ideally squad players
Aurier similar can have a role, but we probably need someone who can defend better for tougher games

So I look at it
- New LB (if we don't see Sessegnon as ready), Reserve keeper, New LB and a DM (with last two being biggest priority)

Not as bad as it could be ..

2 new LBs?

 

[Raziel]

2 new LBs?

typo ..

 

[Bedfordspurs]

typo ..

Two FBs then ?
I think sell Aurier and anything there will go towards one that can play

 

[Finney Is Back]

Two FBs then ?
I think sell Aurier and anything there will go towards one that can play

If we sell Aurier then I think we need to bring in two new right backs. I'd happily do that if one of them was an experienced player like Meunier on a free and the other was a young player like Bogle from Derby. While Bogle is very young, he is good enough to play a part already. Balance of transfer fee cash would be about zero here with us strengthening the present and the future.

At left back it would be good to bring in a new first choice option such as Kazawa on a free. Davies/Sessegnon can be kept as cover. Again strengthening the now and hoping that Sessegnon can be the future.

At centre half we'd be mad not to go after Robin K0ch from Freiburg. Only 1 year left there so surely £20 million would do it no problem. Only 23 years old but already an excellent centre half so sorts now and the future. We would then have upgraded 3 positions in our back four for only £20 million of outlay. Sell Foyth and Rose as well and we'd probably be only £6 million or so worse off.

To strengthen our defensive midfield position, in theory we could possibly sell Dier for somewhere close to what it would cost us to bring in Hojbjerg from Southampton (both have a year left on their contracts and Hojbjerg has so far refused to discuss a new deal with the Saints). So that would be a good pretty much zero cost upgrade. Better still put the Dier money towards Kalvin Phillps from Leeds (I expect Phillips would cost about £15 million on top of the Dier fee). Other advantage of Phillips is that he is English so doesn't take up an overseas spot.

I think we're pretty sorted in terms of attacking midfield players. If we need to generate funds then theoretically we could sell Lamela and bring in Willian on a free, which wouldn't harm the quality of the squad at all, would certainly improve the fitness and might bring in £15 million or so of transfer funds.

Up front we just need to add another number 9, who is capable of playing up top on his own. The Kosovan centre forward Vedat Muriqi would be ideal I think. I thought he would cost about 20 million before covid hit. I guess he may well be cheaper now (depending on Fenerbace's financial situation).

40 odd million quid net outlay to improve our first team right back, centre half, left back, defensive midfield as well as adding much needed centre forward cover..... probably more like £20 to £25 million outlay if selling Lamela. Wage bill would take a bit of a hike however due to the freebies amongst that lot.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

If we sell Aurier then I think we need to bring in two new right backs. I'd happily do that if one of them was an experienced player like Meunier on a free and the other was a young player like Bogle from Derby. While Bogle is very young, he is good enough to play a part already. Balance of transfer fee cash would be about zero here with us strengthening the present and the future.

At left back it would be good to bring in a new first choice option such as Kazawa on a free. Davies/Sessegnon can be kept as cover. Again strengthening the now and hoping that Sessegnon can be the future.

At centre half we'd be mad not to go after Robin K0ch from Freiburg. Only 1 year left there so surely £20 million would do it no problem. Only 23 years old but already an excellent centre half so sorts now and the future. We would then have upgraded 3 positions in our back four for only £20 million of outlay. Sell Foyth and Rose as well and we'd probably be only £6 million or so worse off.

To strengthen our defensive midfield position, in theory we could possibly sell Dier for somewhere close to what it would cost us to bring in Hojbjerg from Southampton (both have a year left on their contracts and Hojbjerg has so far refused to discuss a new deal with the Saints). So that would be a good pretty much zero cost upgrade. Better still put the Dier money towards Kalvin Phillps from Leeds (I expect Phillips would cost about £15 million on top of the Dier fee). Other advantage of Phillips is that he is English so doesn't take up an overseas spot.

I think we're pretty sorted in terms of attacking midfield players. If we need to generate funds then theoretically we could sell Lamela and bring in Willian on a free, which wouldn't harm the quality of the squad at all, would certainly improve the fitness and might bring in £15 million or so of transfer funds.

Up front we just need to add another number 9, who is capable of playing up top on his own. The Kosovan centre forward Vedat Muriqi would be ideal I think. I thought he would cost about 20 million before covid hit. I guess he may well be cheaper now (depending on Fenerbace's financial situation).

40 odd million quid net outlay to improve our first team right back, centre half, left back, defensive midfield as well as adding much needed centre forward cover..... probably more like £20 to £25 million outlay if selling Lamela. Wage bill would take a bit of a hike however due to the freebies amongst that lot.

Can’t really argue with any of that TBF
As I said before I’ve never seen Bogle play but he is highly rated
Willian is interesting as the fee is nil and his wages aren’t silly

 

[DaveT316]

While I love all of the above thinking - very creative! - I’m really not sure there will be that many takers for Aurier and Dier, even at £10-15m for each.

CV19 is going to make a lot of people think twice about spending any sort of money. I think we’ll see barely any activity on transfers that cost much this summer.

I think the most likely sort of positive outcome we can hope for this summer is the N’Dombele Barca swap for Umtiti and Semedo - i.e. no net outlay - even if the linked itself feels a bit tenuous.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

While I love all of the above thinking - very creative! - I’m really not sure there will be that many takers for Aurier and Dier, even at £10-15m for each.

CV19 is going to make a lot of people think twice about spending any sort of money. I think we’ll see barely any activity on transfers that cost much this summer.

But you still have teams like Neverton and Saudi Sportswashing Machine with money to burn and teams that need improving
Although I don’t see us selling Dier myself

 

[DaveT316]

But you still have teams like Neverton and Saudi Sportswashing Machine with money to burn and teams that need improving
Although I don’t see us selling Dier myself

Does Neverton have money to burn? If so, they surely will be looking at better players than our rejects.

Toon agreed are an unknown given the likely takeover. I’m just praying they take Rose!

 

[parklane1]

But you still have teams like Neverton and Saudi Sportswashing Machine with money to burn and teams that need improving
Although I don’t see us selling Dier myself

Neither do i to be honest, i think come next season there will be a few on here who will be dissapointed to find Jose rates the guy.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Neither do i to be honest, i think come next season there will be a few on here who will be dissapointed to find Jose rates the guy.

Not sure about that. Initially Jose was starting Dier more often than not but his starts were decreasing as time went on, although he started a few more games again recently. Mind boggling that some people want him to be captain. You would think that a prerequisite for any captain is that he must be a sure fire, nailed on starter every game? Dier isn’t that and hasn’t been for years now, partially due to injuries of course but also due to form/other players being better than him.