I dont think so, you are just coming out with crap now and had to resort to an attempted personal attack as you couldnt grasp a differing viewpoint of to engage in discussion with it.
-
Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara
'Soldier beheaded' outside barracks in Woolwich
- Thread starter GlennGoddle
- Start date
I dont think so, you are just coming out with crap now and had to resort to an attempted personal attack as you couldnt grasp a differing viewpoint of to engage in discussion with it.
AuroRaman
Chris Armstrong
Hahaha! Oh you are precious! Did you not just insult my intellect in a very recent post!
Good night mate, it been a pleasure answering all your posts, you've certainly kept me on my toes with your differing arguments when I have knocked each previous one out the park. Sweet dreams
I dont think so, you are just coming out with crap now and had to resort to an attempted personal attack as you couldnt grasp a differing viewpoint of to engage in discussion with it.
Gilzeantoscore
Justin Edinburgh
It was always going to be the case. I picked it up on earlier threads. People need to realise that extremists target popular websites like this to spout their brick. They are propagandists, pure and simple.
Gilzeantoscore
Justin Edinburgh
I'm right onto you too sport.
Hahaha! Oh you are precious! Did you not just insult my intellect in a very recent post!
Good night mate, it been a pleasure answering all your posts, you've certainly kept me on my toes with your differing arguments when I have knocked each previous one out the park. Sweet dreams
Ok keep telling yourself that. You were the one saying I moved the goalposts, then resorted to childish insults so its clear you do not really have the intellect to either grasp the arguments, or refuse to. Either way, it is obvious you are an ignorant individual who doesn't really give a brick about the discussion, I suspect it would be very different had it been the other way round.
AuroRaman
Chris Armstrong
Mate, you are aware all your previous posts are available on this thread? Do I really need to school you on where you've gone wrong throughout this whole discussion? You have made some highly ignorant comments and incredibly absurd insinuations about myself in your posts, and when I have called you up on it you have been found wanting and made to look like a child.
I have answered absolutely everything you have put forward to me. Read the posts back, take stock and realise you are the one that has bumbled his/her way through this. Peace and Love x
You have failed to pull anybody up on anything instead crying about goalposts being moved so have a read over your own posts first. You then tried a personal attack as you were frustrated that you cant have it all your own way, and used laughable statistics. You also tried to play the race card by throwing in references to liken my views to certain parties which is pretty low and shows a lack of respect for alternate views to that of your own, it is clear that your views are hugely inbalanced and therefore will not even consider an alternative view. I have not even needed to start childish insults as you have, and you have made yourself look like a complete ignirant fool as a result.
No doubt you will deny it all as you yet again go off on a tangent.
Hootnow
Jermaine Jenas
Do you mean Islamist or Islamic?
Because if you mean Islamic:
http://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/new..._community_because_of_two_criminals_1_2207481
http://www.thisisleicestershire.co....tory-19068681-detail/story.html#axzz2UOywPrpp
http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/local/portsmouth-muslim-leaders-condemn-woolwich-atrocity-1-5119619
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...lee-rigby-murder_n_3328374.html?utm_hp_ref=uk (this one mentioning the armed forces and Muslims' history of serving in the British armed forces)
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...d-Muslim-leaders-unite-to-condemn-attack.html
From the first page of google search. I'm sure there are more.
Every time, the same cliches come out. Islamic leaders have persistently and consistently condemned terrosist attacks committed throughout the world. And yet after every attack, the same thing comes out about Muslim leaders not condemning the attacks.
As for Muslims serving in the British armed forces:
http://www.britainsmuslimsoldiers.com/#/ww-1/4554736063
Hootnow
Jermaine Jenas
I've just liked the page to see what you two were referring to. Could you pick out the facts which you consider misleading and then present your own sources to refute those claims.
Thanks.
Hootnow
Jermaine Jenas
Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich
Haha I apologise for that but you know what I'm like
The only realise I ask is because especially since the revolution, there has been a LOT of misinformation and outright lies spread. With all due respect, I am almost certain this is an outright lie (not from you obviously, from the satellite channel). The society has become so polarised that it is easy to believe anything about the 'other' because they're less than human. The seculars? Of course they're agents for other countries? The Islamists? Of course they were willing to pass a law saying you could have sex with your dead wife. The Christians? Of course they wear black as sadness until Egypt becomes Christian again.
Its quite sad for me because the Islamists do enough stupid crap stuff they can be attacked for without the need for other groups to make up things about them.
You don't think the 3 'secular' Egyptian dictators since 53 have had a huge impact on the structure of Egyptian society today?
One of my wife's grandmothers is still alive and she tells me beautiful stories of what Cairo and Alexandria was like in the 20s, 30s and 40s. Jews, Christians, Muslims, Italians, Greeks, Armenians all living together. Who, sometimes openly through forced expulsions and sometimes through his economic policies basically obliterated all of those communitives except for the Muslim and Christian? Nasser or an Islamist? Who was it, through his mismanagement of pan-Arabism and his leading of the country through the 6 day war, effectively delivered a death knol to pan-Arabism and effectively forced people to consider other ideologies? Again Nasser. Who after Nasser's death, in his struggle to combat the Nasserists and leftists in the government and in the general population, released the Islamists from prison? Sadat (and we both know how that ended for him). Who then after him, thought that the way to deal with the militant Islamist problem was to allow them to go off and fight in Afghanistan and the Balkans? Only for them to return and wage war on him? Again, Mubarak. Who in his drive to combat the MB, allowed Salafis to air their disgusting views on TV and in the mosques? Who, through his chronic mismanagement of the economy, through his lack of education drives and his increasing poverty rates, made people turn to deeper religion as a way of coping with the horrific grind of their daily lives?
All of this was done by the 3 secular dictators. I think the youth are becoming more liberal not because of Mubarak but because of the internet. It is hard for him to restrict the population when you can watch American and European tv shows, films (and porn) on the internet for free. The society and culture is out there. And it is almost impossible for any dictator to restrict access to that now.
I agree. That kind of change isn't instantaneous though and doesn't happen under brutal dictators. Britain was a country where religion is the way of life. So was the rest of Europe. For various reasons, other parts of the world are slightly behind on that arc. But it will come. Heck, even in the UK, they criminally prosecuted and chemically castrated a gay man in the 50s. And not just any man, the man who had effectively broken the enigma code. 100 years ago, women couldn't vote. We all know what the situation of blacks was in the USA just 50 years ago and even now across some parts.
This may sound like a long time but in the context of human history? Its mere seconds. It isn't an instant process however.
Like I said, a big helping point is getting people talking to each other and meeting each other. It is very easy to hold misconceptions and foster hate against other people if you don't know any of them. I'd warrant that quite a few of the people in this thread don't talk on a regular basis to any Muslims whatsoever.
Haha I apologise for that but you know what I'm like
The only realise I ask is because especially since the revolution, there has been a LOT of misinformation and outright lies spread. With all due respect, I am almost certain this is an outright lie (not from you obviously, from the satellite channel). The society has become so polarised that it is easy to believe anything about the 'other' because they're less than human. The seculars? Of course they're agents for other countries? The Islamists? Of course they were willing to pass a law saying you could have sex with your dead wife. The Christians? Of course they wear black as sadness until Egypt becomes Christian again.
Its quite sad for me because the Islamists do enough stupid crap stuff they can be attacked for without the need for other groups to make up things about them.
You don't think the 3 'secular' Egyptian dictators since 53 have had a huge impact on the structure of Egyptian society today?
One of my wife's grandmothers is still alive and she tells me beautiful stories of what Cairo and Alexandria was like in the 20s, 30s and 40s. Jews, Christians, Muslims, Italians, Greeks, Armenians all living together. Who, sometimes openly through forced expulsions and sometimes through his economic policies basically obliterated all of those communitives except for the Muslim and Christian? Nasser or an Islamist? Who was it, through his mismanagement of pan-Arabism and his leading of the country through the 6 day war, effectively delivered a death knol to pan-Arabism and effectively forced people to consider other ideologies? Again Nasser. Who after Nasser's death, in his struggle to combat the Nasserists and leftists in the government and in the general population, released the Islamists from prison? Sadat (and we both know how that ended for him). Who then after him, thought that the way to deal with the militant Islamist problem was to allow them to go off and fight in Afghanistan and the Balkans? Only for them to return and wage war on him? Again, Mubarak. Who in his drive to combat the MB, allowed Salafis to air their disgusting views on TV and in the mosques? Who, through his chronic mismanagement of the economy, through his lack of education drives and his increasing poverty rates, made people turn to deeper religion as a way of coping with the horrific grind of their daily lives?
All of this was done by the 3 secular dictators. I think the youth are becoming more liberal not because of Mubarak but because of the internet. It is hard for him to restrict the population when you can watch American and European tv shows, films (and porn
) on the internet for free. The society and culture is out there. And it is almost impossible for any dictator to restrict access to that now. I agree. That kind of change isn't instantaneous though and doesn't happen under brutal dictators. Britain was a country where religion is the way of life. So was the rest of Europe. For various reasons, other parts of the world are slightly behind on that arc. But it will come. Heck, even in the UK, they criminally prosecuted and chemically castrated a gay man in the 50s. And not just any man, the man who had effectively broken the enigma code. 100 years ago, women couldn't vote. We all know what the situation of blacks was in the USA just 50 years ago and even now across some parts.
This may sound like a long time but in the context of human history? Its mere seconds. It isn't an instant process however.
Like I said, a big helping point is getting people talking to each other and meeting each other. It is very easy to hold misconceptions and foster hate against other people if you don't know any of them. I'd warrant that quite a few of the people in this thread don't talk on a regular basis to any Muslims whatsoever.
AuroRaman
Chris Armstrong
Right, where shall I begin with this? Firstly, I would like to add that this is the first time I have ever had to endure a tit-for-tat with anyone on this forum and you are the first person, hand on heart, in my whole existence that has labelled me as ignorant. Well done =D>
When we started our exchanges, you will notice I was agreeing with elements of your first posts, and offering my own opinion where I disagreed with you. We exchanged a couple more posts where I again agreed with most elements of what you were trying to say but highlighting where I didn't agree with you and offering first-hand examples. Then for some inexplicable reason, when I offered an alternative global view to your annoyance at the term 'trying', you made some defamatory remarks about how I was tarring every Western man/the West with the same brush. I challenged you on this and whilst you still continued posting on the thread, you didn't offer me the decency of replying.
In the meantime, you managed to call Steff ignorant for his views, even though he had clarified and apologised for where he was mistaken. He acknowledged an element of his post where he had been mistaken but asked you for an apology for labelling him as something he is clearly not (seems to be a speciality of yours). You still have not apologised, the most you could muster was it 'was not your intention'.
I once again challenged you about your earlier comments regarding my thoughts and character, and you provided me with some nonsensical paragraph that didn't address what you had labelled me in the slightest. I decided not to pursue this and thanked you for replying. You continued banging a drum that had been challenged and answered by people with, it seems, far more first-hand knowledge than you with regards to your concerns. You mentioned that I was 'plucking evidence from the air', whereby I corrected you. You decided not to pursue this, wisely, and then made the assumption I had said you were uninformed for thinking Sharia Law in the UK is wrong. Once again (sigh), I corrected you and said that it was delusional to have a fear that this type of law would be a dominant force in the UK. I also stated that this was EDL rhetoric, which I believe is where you have this idea that I played the race card (!!!) and was aiming a barb at you, which let me categorically state now I wasn't. I was very simply stating that that a fear of Sharia Law becoming dominant was something the EDL peddled out. If you took this as a slight on your character then I sincerely apologise for not making myself clearer.
You then agreed that the above wouldn't happen, which was quite frankly incredibly confusing considering you had tried to call me up on mentioning it. I also mentioned the Catholic Church which you conveniently side-stepped. I offered you a Facebook page which posted about a range of issues, including benefits, housing and immigration. Now, in your post above you have talked about laughable statistics? Is this what you are referring to? I don't care that you find it to be propaganda, I don't care that you are not interested, I was merely suggesting it to you as something of interest and something that might pleasantly surprise you in terms of our Immigration issues. Maybe I should have also mentioned that the sources for these posts are in the comments section of each one, with most sources being respected government, census and highly-regarded periodical organisations. The clue is in the title about whether this page is propaganda or not...'just the ACTUAL FACTS'. No biggie and in all honesty, you were having a discussion with someone else and I involved myself. I wasn't trying to belittle you or start an argument, I very simply thought you may be interested in the content.
So after you had questioned my integrity earlier in the thread, deflected and ignored a few questions I asked of you, I had to ask, 'how old are you?' A fair question, one that many posters on here ask when they are engaged in discussion, heated or otherwise. I likened your attitude to a Coen Brother character. I will hold my hands up and apologise for that as it was a flippant comment. In the meantime, you questioned my intellect and stated I was posting crap. Is this not childish in itself?
Now you are saying I am going off on a tangent and being an ignorant fool. You state I do not give a brick about the discussion yet I have replied to every one of your posts and replied with answers to question you have posed of me or with my opinion of what you had posted. How is this going off on a tangent may I ask? Or not giving a brick about the discussion? You say my views are hugely imbalanced but I have managed to look at a situation like this from a global perspective. Having lived in a Muslim country for two years, been well-travelled and going to International schools throughout my life, I believe I have gained a good insight on this subject in particular from a multitude of cultures. Being Sikh-born but brought up in an entirely Western-culture has helped me look at things from a fairly unique perspective as well. When I have made reference to this in my posts you have dismissed them as anti-west. I will always consider an alternative view and will happily engage in discussion. However, I have found this incredibly difficult with you because you seem to have an attitude that you are accusing me of having.
I understand that you have been involved in various exchanges with others on this thread. And it is not easy to follow a thread on here at the best of times! So, in the hope that I'm not sounding patronising as it is not my game, I can see where you may not have answered specifics in my posts as it can get confusing replying to 3-4 different people at once.
I hate that I have had to go through a fine-tooth comb with this, but when you are labelled anti-West, without intellect and an ignorant fool in the space of 24 hours, I feel well within my rights to defend myself.
edit - being accused of playing 'the race card' to add to the last paragraph!
Last edited:
I refer to the website which contains said misleading information, as my post has already said. also, my previous post means that there is no hope of having a meaningful discussion with regards to this, because any attempt at a discussion leads to the 'race' card being played.
With regards to the information and the other poster, it is clear you hold a passionate view on the matter which is fair enough, as does the other poster, however the problem is when somebody feels that their passion over an issue, driven by the belief that they have a moral highground trumps all other prerogatives before even considering them. And, to to top it off then use insinuations to sully the viewpoint in order to feel as though they have validated their own points? I'm sorry but is that is how you debate then there is no debate to be had here.
Hootnow
Jermaine Jenas
As soon as I saw the properganda about how many per cent of people go to the first country as refugees it summed your whole viewpoint up, assuming you support such drivel under the banner of 'keep calm Britain' which you clearly do as suggested by your eagerness to push the site address to me.#
Are you talking about this one? If not, please refer me to the post which you are referring to. As I said, I'm not playing games or trying to wum. I'm trying to find out the exact claims you think are propaganda and the facts you have to refute them.
I haven't played the race card at any point during this discussion. I asked a simple question.
AuroRaman
Chris Armstrong
I await your reply to my previous post.
AuroRaman
Chris Armstrong
THFC may not have realised there are sources in the comments section and I didn't refer this to him.
I am confused myself about the propaganda insinuation though, as stated in my post above.
I would highly doubt that.