'Soldier beheaded' outside barracks in Woolwich

[Crawley]

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

This man was against the war on terror, but what he clearly doesn't understand is that the more acts of terror there are, the more we'll fight it.

One thing I hate is when the EDL fly Israel flags. How dare they use that flag as a symbol of our religion and wave it around as if one of them even know a Jew.

Er, you do realise it's possible to be an English jew, right?

And as such, there is every conceiveable chance you could be anti-muslim?

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

KD, please stop derailling the conversation, I've supported you when you've been wronged but you're in the wrong this time.

There is a world of difference between saying get over something that happened to your race or countrymen before you were born and the events of yesterday.

I'll take this convo to PM if you like to keep the thread on track. Cheers.

My point is that incidents like this which involve twisted sickos shouldn't push you into harbouring racist thoughts or justifying racism. If it does then you've probably had those thoughts for a long time.

 

[Crawley]

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

I'll take that bait Crawley.
Are you suggesting that the opinions I have stated are a 'type of justification' for the act? Seriously?
Do you think the ONLY way someone can condemn these acts is to also condemn Islam?
It appears that this clown shoe was a 'Christian' before converting. Should we then assume that perhaps he took the Old Testament a little too far?
This arsehole has as much to do with 'faith' as Ray Charles does with brain surgery, and I think it's a sad sad day when arseholes like the EDL jump up and put their fudging balaclavas on and run around the place USING this as a touch-paper to start some sort of race/faith war.

If it turns out he was a devout, 100% practicing man of faith with a clear plan, then I owe you an apology and you will get it mate. In the meanwhile, you should accept that holding a view such as mine is NOT a 'type of justification' for the act.

Justifying was a poor choice of word. My bad.

However, I still say putting his actions down to drug use, or insanity, is avoiding the issue.

From his rants, it is obvious the fella doesn't quite know what he is trying to say, and as such there is a part of me that thinks despite it's barbaric nature, this isn't going to be a full-on assault from islamic extremists.
But..............as an individual, he carried out his actions in the name of Islam, so that makes this a hate crime, because he was attacking what he deems to be an enemy of islam.

Also, Steff, it has now been made clear this guy was known to anti-terror forces for some years, and was a known radicalised (is that a word?) Islamist.
Therefore, everything points to this being a deliberate attack on what he sees as his and Islams enemies. But, the fact he has brought this "war" to our own shores is going to make a section of society jump up and defend themselves in a way that many will not like i.e automatically lumping all Muslims into one category. Terrorists.

It's obviously wrong, but it will happen. It's human nature. I can guarantee that during WW11 the majority of Brits hated ALL Germans at some stage, because they saw them as threatening their freedom, right?

Went on a bit there. Beer induced.......

 

[Crawley]

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

My point is that incidents like this which involve twisted sickos shouldn't push you into harbouring racist thoughts or justifying racism. If it does then you've probably had those thoughts for a long time.

I don't think anyone is justifying racism.

I think the main issue here is more the fact that a number of radicals seem to be able to say and do whatever they want, while taking advantage of the very place that aims to protect and keep them............Great Britain. That is hypocrisy.

 

[elltrev]

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

This man was against the war on terror, but what he clearly doesn't understand is that the more acts of terror there are, the more we'll fight it.

One thing I hate is when the EDL fly Israel flags. How dare they use that flag as a symbol of our religion and wave it around as if one of them even know a Jew.

Then I guess what 'we' clearly don't understand is that the more we fight it, the more acts of terror there will be. Can anyone honestly see an end to this self-perpetuating cycle of violence that has been put in motion?

 

[elltrev]

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

I don't think anyone is justifying racism.

I think the main issue here is more the fact that a number of radicals seem to be able to say and do whatever they want, while taking advantage of the very place that aims to protect and keep them............Great Britain. That is hypocrisy.

Johnola seemed to be at the end of Page 3.

 

[Crawley]

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

Johnola seemed to be at the end of Page 3.

No, I feel he was angry at those who would do us harm. Which in this (and other) instance are radical Islamists within our own country.

If it was a bunch of Frenchmen acting the same way, and preaching death to our people, I'm sure the reaction would be the same. (Only we wouldn't be as scared of the French )

 

[elltrev]

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

No, I feel he was angry at those who would do us harm. Which in this (and other) instance are radical Islamists within our own country.

If it was a bunch of Frenchmen acting the same way, and preaching death to our people, I'm sure the reaction would be the same. (Only we wouldn't be as scared of the French )

"This is the last straw for me. Muslims get out. No more business from me, nothing but hassle from me from now on."

It's the tarring of all muslims with the same brush, whatever you want to call it, that people rightfully have an issue with.

Anyway I think this kind of reaction is in the minority.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

The reason I called the comment ignorant was because you have jumped to the conclusion of it not being faith or religion or race related when the evidence clearly says that may well be the case. You also said it will lead to all muslims being tarred as terrorists, by who? Its the old get out to avoid the issue again, brush it under the carpet snd pretend its not racially/politically/religion motivated

Your definition of ignorance is obviously rather different to mine. I would've said 'ignorant' was to immediately assume, as many have, that this man was a muslim based on some words he shouted. Minutes after it happened it was being called a 'terrorist' act...in fact, seing as you cannot find it in yourself to muster an apology (understandable if you honestly believe what you wrote) let me refer you to the the boldface part of your post above and return the compliment. Your ignorance in this matter will only allow the details to be swept under a carpet whilst the swirling hoardes pick over it and appropriate these tragic actions for their own agendas. You appear to have a pre-determined mindset about what this is. I would certainly call that both narrow-minded and ignorant. Each to their own. The only thing we can apparently agree on is that this was a disgusting crime.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

Justifying was a poor choice of word. My bad.

However, I still say putting his actions down to drug use, or insanity, is avoiding the issue.

From his rants, it is obvious the fella doesn't quite know what he is trying to say, and as such there is a part of me that thinks despite it's barbaric nature, this isn't going to be a full-on assault from islamic extremists.
But..............as an individual, he carried out his actions in the name of Islam, so that makes this a hate crime, because he was attacking what he deems to be an enemy of islam.

Also, Steff, it has now been made clear this guy was known to anti-terror forces for some years, and was a known radicalised (is that a word?) Islamist.
Therefore, everything points to this being a deliberate attack on what he sees as his and Islams enemies. But, the fact he has brought this "war" to our own shores is going to make a section of society jump up and defend themselves in a way that many will not like i.e automatically lumping all Muslims into one category. Terrorists.

It's obviously wrong, but it will happen. It's human nature. I can guarantee that during WW11 the majority of Brits hated ALL Germans at some stage, because they saw them as threatening their freedom, right?

Went on a bit there. Beer induced.......

No worries mate I go on a bit all the time and do not have the excuse of a beer (I probably need one LOL)...I have a better view of your discussion point now. I think they key question for me remains why a British born young man, who was raised Christian, found himself in such a mood/state that he was susceptible to being 'radicalized' as I absolutely, 100% believe that he has little or no concept of the words he shouted or the extremists he fraternized with on occasion. He spoke jibberish, conflicted nonsense. He found something 'anti' with a 'message' and decided to play around with it. Why? And why do these people pop up? I think it will be interesting to see what 'country he was referring to, because the man was born in London!

 

[AuroRaman]

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

No, I feel he was angry at those who would do us harm. Which in this (and other) instance are radical Islamists within our own country.

If it was a bunch of Frenchmen acting the same way, and preaching death to our people, I'm sure the reaction would be the same. (Only we wouldn't be as scared of the French )

It was still a completely macaronic and ignorant statement to post. If he was 'just angry', then I assume he'll be back on the thread to apologise, I'm sure we have some Muslim posters on here?

 

[spitshine]

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

What I can't fathom is why weren't the b&stards killed? Usually in such a situation they are shot and killed especially in a terrifying situation as this. Dosen't make sense

 

[awesome dawson]

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

What I can't fathom is why weren't the b&stards killed? Usually in such a situation they are shot and killed especially in a terrifying situation as this. Dosen't make sense

They probably wanted to be killed rather than spend a lifetime behind bars.

No fifty virgins in prison. Good on the police for showing restraint and just putting them down without blowing their heads off.

 

[AuroRaman]

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

They probably wanted to be killed rather than spend a lifetime behind bars.

No fifty virgins in prison. Good on the police for showing restraint and just putting them down without blowing their heads off.

It's a testament to our police force and their specialised training that they will always attempt to take out a threat without having to resort to killing. In a case like this it must require incredible restraint.

 

[raboner]

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

The man in the video was a Spurs supporter

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' in 'Islamist terror attack' oustide barracks in Woolwich

Honestly?
My first thought was that it was British-born lads who have family back in one of the war-torn African countries such as Sierra Leone or the Congo, where it is sadly more for people to be hacked to pieces with machetes and knives...the one guy on that video seems high on PCP or something...I was a bit alarmed to hear of a potential 'religious' connection...whatever they feel it's connected to, this one is also (it seems) as much about straight up nutters than anything else.

It now seems as though the guy in the video might well have been to, or trying to get to, Somalia.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/23/woolwich-attack-soldier-lee-rigby-mi5?guni=Network%20front:network-front%20main-3%20Main%20trailblock:Network%20front%20-%20main%20trailblockosition3

These poor, war-torn and brutal countries are very very dangerous already, but if they are becoming places where radicalism is getting a strong foothold, then the west really, really needs to address a huge reality here. The Guardian had an op-ed piece today which primarily revolved around whether this was an act of 'terrorism' or not, but it got into some interesting areas.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/23/woolwich-attack-terrorism-blowback?INTCMP=SRCH

Sadly, it appears that the 'main' guy was, indeed, seeking some sort of macaronic 'guidance' as to where to vent his anger, and doing so from a radical loon. So I was wrong to assume he was simply high. However, I stand by saying he must've been mentally ill and further, that he latched onto something for the vent it could give him and not any strong belief system.

It also appears that he was, indeed, a dealer and someone fudging about with the whole 'thug life' image, but again, piecing together what's being discovered, the overriding feeling is of someone who was quite simply lost and mentally ill. This report from The Sun (not the best but no worse than the Mail) sheds further light on him (ignore their photo captioning, which sadly shows they cannot tell who's who).

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4940232/Footie-mad-class-joker-who-turned-into-killer-extremist.html

Interesting to see mention of drone attack murders of innocent civilians abroad, and interesting to learn of the murders of some members of the muslim community in the last couple of months, which went largely unreported.

The whole thing is an unfolding spiral of madness...

 

[scaramanga]

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

"This is the last straw for me. Muslims get out. No more business from me, nothing but hassle from me from now on."

It's the tarring of all muslims with the same brush, whatever you want to call it, that people rightfully have an issue with.

Anyway I think this kind of reaction is in the minority.

How about "Anyone who holds their religion in higher esteem than our democratic way of life get out"?

Doesn't have the same ring to it, probably won't be making banners with it any time soon.

Would encompass a brickpile of Muslims, but hopefully a whole load of other mentals with imaginary friends too.

 

[Gordinho]

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

How about "Anyone who holds their religion in higher esteem than our democratic way of life get out"?

Doesn't have the same ring to it, probably won't be making banners with it any time soon.

Would encompass a brickpile of Muslims, but hopefully a whole load of other mentals with imaginary friends too.

You see Scara this is where you are such a clown shoe, you make a really good point then ruin it by insulting the intelligence of those with a different belief system to you. You simply do not understand the concept of respect for others. You do this with religion and politics. Your posts in the Liverpool thread were nothing short of a disgrace. If you didn't own the board you'd have been banned by now under rule four of your own rules.

4. WUMs and trolls

People who deliberately seek to wind up other posters or who repeatedly post the same thing across multiple threads are unwelcome here.

If you suspect that a poster is acting as a wind up merchant or trolling don't respond, but please report examples to the admin team. The admin team will consider the matter and, if the majority agree, the appropriate action will be taken.

Acts of trolling are designated as such by the opinion of the admins. These are not open to debate and if your behaviour is continually detrimental to the quality of the board we will take action.

Nothing will be done though, not to you at any rate. Rules only work one way in some cases.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

damn..see you in a month Gordinho mate

 

[scaramanga]

Re: 'Soldier beheaded' oustide barracks in Woolwich

You see Scara this is where you are such a clown shoe, you make a really good point then ruin it by insulting the intelligence of those with a different belief system to you. You simply do not understand the concept of respect for others.

It's precisely because of my respect for people that I dislike religion so much.

Belief in any of the major religions (can't speak for the smaller ones) requires one to relegate mankind to some lesser being than their GHod. It also requires people to throw away their one and only life (the most valuable thing anyone can have) in the false hope of another.

If my language is strong enough to offend at times then I can only apologise, but freeing people from their religious chains is incredibly important to me - it will hopefully be the thing our generation and the one after it are remembered for.

You do this with religion and politics. Your posts in the Liverpool thread were nothing short of a disgrace. If you didn't own the board you'd have been banned by now under rule four of your own rules.

Nothing will be done though, not to you at any rate. Rules only work one way in some cases.

I don't remember what I wrote in the Liverpool thread, but as I almost always speak my mind I can take a pretty good guess.

I don't like the area, but I think I've only really posted opinion of somewhere I don't like (equally I'm sure plenty from Liverpool would hate Chichester for being stuck up - I've heard that opinion plenty if times) and some facts about state reliance. You're always free to offer alternative points of view as others did.

As for banning, all of us on the moderation team are subject to the same rules as anyone else. If you feel rules are being breached then report the posts. I'm sure there's been times in the past where all of us have deserved points and I'll take them just like I'd expect anyone else to.