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Sick sick world what is wrong with people

Jurgen the German said:
Not sure it would solve the debate. Political agenda seems to come first for most people, even above facts.
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Yes but why not try it.

So @markysimmo thinks the is a problem with immigration and crime and town centres being less safe.

Why do you think the civil servants and the government don't want to release those figures.

Would be a wonderful way if getting horrible racists to shut up.

Could prove them wrong about taking social housing if we released those figures as well.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
Yes but why not try it.

So @markysimmo thinks the is a problem with immigration and crime and town centres being less safe.

Why do you think the civil servants and the government don't want to release those figures.

Would be a wonderful way if getting horrible racists to shut up.

Could prove them wrong about taking social housing if we released those figures as well.
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We should try it and I agree it’s the best way to go, just unconvinced how effective it will be given how tribal people are.
 
Jurgen the German said:
We should try it and I agree it’s the best way to go, just unconvinced how effective it will be given how tribal people are.
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I'm sure I agree with you.

But cold hard facts are the way to argue with people.

I guess different people will have different levels for acceptability regarding things like immigrant crime and how much they can tolerate. But till the stats are released it is hard to debate it. So I wonder why the powers that be don't want to release it.

It is like having closed courts for grooming cases. I'm against closed courts for anything. The wife has given evidence in some closed court cases, white people. I just don't agree with them on principle but that's a whole other matter.
 
LutonSpurs said:
Anecdotally I'd say 80s racism was much much worse. Late 90s were good. Then post 911 it got bad again but the 80s was bad for black and brown people.

Now it's more Muslim hate I experience. And it's worse than ever.
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Sorry to hear. Would you say it’s got worse since Brexit/Trump? Seems to me those events were a catalyst for people to be more outwardly bigoted. I think immigration is an issue for most western countries, not just the UK and America. Don’t get me wrong, every country needs immigrants as they are vital to the workplace and if you like a multicultural society but I also think the political parties (Labour and the democrats mainly) need to do a better job of conveying that they understand it is an issue. A lot of countries in the west are more diverse than they were 30-50 years ago which is great, but it is a lot of change to take in, I think that’s why you have a lot of right wing populists doing well in Western Europe and in America.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Sorry to hear. Would you say it’s got worse since Brexit/Trump? Seems to me those events were a catalyst for people to be more outwardly bigoted. I think immigration is an issue for most western countries, not just the UK and America. Don’t get me wrong, every country needs immigrants as they are vital to the workplace and if you like a multicultural society but I also think the political parties (Labour and the democrats mainly) need to do a better job of conveying that they understand it is an issue. A lot of countries in the west are more diverse than they were 30-50 years ago which is great, but it is a lot of change to take in, I think that’s why you have a lot of right wing populists doing well in Western Europe and in America.
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This is really strange wording. Why would you not like a multicultural society?

It's the key to reducing bigotry and racism. Australia is a prime example of this, once seen as a racist backwater, it is now a bastion of multicultiralism and racism is definitely on the decline, year on year, decade on decade.. It's a slow process, but it's the only way to go.

Enabling the view that multiculturalism is somehow dangerous or wrong is the biggest problem.
 
jrh said:
This is really strange wording. Why would you not like a multicultural society?

It's the key to reducing bigotry and racism. Australia is a prime example of this, once seen as a racist backwater, it is now a bastion of multicultiralism and racism is definitely on the decline, year on year, decade on decade.. It's a slow process, but it's the only way to go.

Enabling the view that multiculturalism is somehow dangerous or wrong is the biggest problem.
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Well I would like to assume most people do but unfortunately not everyone does. Its pretty clear there will always be horrible people out there.
 
LutonSpurs said:
Anecdotally I'd say 80s racism was much much worse. Late 90s were good. Then post 911 it got bad again but the 80s was bad for black and brown people.

Now it's more Muslim hate I experience. And it's worse than ever.
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Sorry to hear that pal.

I think there is an unfortunate added layer to this where social media plays it's part too. Those that don't offer anything to society or play active roles living behind screens online. Knowing that an the fact interactions are monetised, racism is now a money making business. I honestly believe that. You only have to look at half the bios of those spreading it too and there is not one without a crowd fund to supplement the income from blue ticks.

An example why I believe that so strongly is that there was a post recently from one of those NF bozos outside Whitechapel Station claiming that bengali writing was Arabic and also a new phenomena when in fact bengali signage has been there for 20+ years. Although laughable the sad part aside from his bigotry were the responses, not one fact check or brain between them, it was all just see Brown Face, Foreign writing, must be Muslims.....must hate Muslims....countries gone to pot etc etc etc

It's a massively sad state and it's creating an uneeded undercurrent for those that are and embrace living in a multicultural society. Fcuk we support a football club in Edmonton, one of the most multicultural areas in London.....and we all like to chest thump about it at times.
 
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Grays_1890 said:
Sorry to hear that pal.

I think there is an unfortunate added layer to this where social media plays it's part too. Those that don't offer anything to society or play active roles living behind screens online. Knowing that an the fact interactions are monetised, racism is now a money making business. I honestly believe that. You only have to look at half the bios of those spreading it too and there is not one without a crowd fund to supplement the income from blue ticks.

An example why I believe that so strongly is that there was a post recently from one of those NF bozos outside Whitechapel Station claiming that bengali writing was Arabic and also a new phenomena when in fact bengali signage has been there for 20+ years. Although laughable the sad part aside from his bigotry were the responses, not one fact check or brain between them, it was all just see Brown Face, Foreign writing, must be Muslims.....must hate Muslims....countries gone to pot etc etc etc

It's a massively sad state and it's creating an uneeded undercurrent for those that have and are content in living in a multicultural society. Fcuk we support a football club in Edmonton, one of the most multicultural areas in London.....and we all like to chest thump about it at times.
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Education is the other massive part of the equation that needs so much work. No one is born a bigot.
 
jrh said:
Education is the other massive part of the equation that needs so much work. No one is born a bigot.
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Yep absolutely that and upbringing. People look at family for guidance from a young age and it spreads top down if someone senior is filling their kids heads with rubbish

The problem with safe spaces like twitter now though it's a perfect storm, the truths now being repacked as a lie by the likes of Fox and Brand and people are so thick they think everything's a conspiracy, so truth and what's right is now hardly a consideration, makes education harder when people are now selling the "don't believe everything you are taught"

The number of holocaust deniers I'm seeing on twitter without even looking for them now is criminal.
 
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Grays_1890 said:
Yep absolutely that and upbringing. People look at family for guidance from a young age and it spreads top down if someone senior is filling their kids heads with rubbish

The problem with safe spaces like twitter now though it's a perfect storm, the truths now being repacked as a lie by the likes of Fox and Brand and people are so thick they think everything's a conspiracy, so truth and what's right is now hardly a consideration, makes education harder when people are now selling the "don't believe everything you are taught"

The number of holocaust deniers I'm seeing on twitter without even looking for them now is criminal.
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The trickle down of macaronic, bigoted, misguided views from family 'heroes' is, and always will be, a problem.

The other big problem is SM has created a think tank for the hard of thinking.

All, as you say, driven by the triangulated money model of the internet. With no consideration for consequence, fallout and collateral damage.
 
jrh said:
Education is the other massive part of the equation that needs so much work. No one is born a bigot.
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I think education can help (not poo pooing it btw:)) but lived experience/exposure is 20X the educator.

I was (not knowingly) lucky when I was younger (from primary school to early 20s) to have contact with many people from diverse backgrounds.

Travelling helps as well.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
I think education can help (not poo pooing it btw:)) but lived experience/exposure is 20X the educator.

I was (not knowingly) lucky when I was younger (from primary school to early 20s) to have contact with many people from diverse backgrounds.

Travelling helps as well.
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Oh agree, but I mean totally reforming education so it's not the same old brick it's been for centuries. Adapting it for a modern global world. Won't hold my breath though.
 
jrh said:
Oh agree, but I mean totally reforming education so it's not the same old brick it's been for centuries. Adapting it for a modern global world. Won't hold my breath though.
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I remember singing the ink is black, the page is white, in primary school assembly in 1980.
 
So if the trouble in the Middle East was like a punch up outside a Wetherspoons to this point. This is clearly the bit where some bampot comes storming in with his dingdong hanging out, drooling all over the place shouting "Come on you clams, I'll take you all on"
 
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