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Ryan Mason

I think you need to look across a season to judge a player rather than focus on individual games where there will be good and bad moments. Across last season we conceded a lot of goals. Some of that was due to the mason bentaleb partnership in front of the back 5 not providing the protection required. This season we have looked a lot more solid with the Dier/Dembele partnership and Mason has not really added to it when he has played. Tbh he is your archetypal box-box midfielder rather than a defensive one and he is a good player but just not better than the other options he is competing with and the same goes for Carroll.
 
Spurs7891 said:
Apparently, we have only won 2 out of the 10 matches in which Mason or Carroll started. They are just not good enough for us.
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Yet some of their games we have been ahead when those players have played... Saudi Sportswashing Machine at home we were ahead when Carroll was playing... He came off subbed and we lost!!!

I'm not arguing their good enough just saying that the stats can be misleading in isolation
 
Robspur12 said:
I think you need to look across a season to judge a player rather than focus on individual games where there will be good and bad moments. Across last season we conceded a lot of goals. Some of that was due to the mason bentaleb partnership in front of the back 5 not providing the protection required. This season we have looked a lot more solid with the Dier/Dembele partnership and Mason has not really added to it when he has played. Tbh he is your archetypal box-box midfielder rather than a defensive one and he is a good player but just not better than the other options he is competing with and the same goes for Carroll.
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Good post and pretty much my opinion as well.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Yet some of their games we have been ahead when those players have played... Saudi Sportswashing Machine at home we were ahead when Carroll was playing... He came off subbed and we lost!!!

I'm not arguing their good enough just saying that the stats can be misleading in isolation
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You're right the stats can be misleading but the fact is neither Carroll nor Mason are good enough to command a regular place in our team.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Yet some of their games we have been ahead when those players have played... Saudi Sportswashing Machine at home we were ahead when Carroll was playing... He came off subbed and we lost!!!

I'm not arguing their good enough just saying that the stats can be misleading in isolation
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Indeed.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Yet some of their games we have been ahead when those players have played... Saudi Sportswashing Machine at home we were ahead when Carroll was playing... He came off subbed and we lost!!!

I'm not arguing their good enough just saying that the stats can be misleading in isolation
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Carroll does quite a good job of helping us see out games imv - keeps possession better than any other option we have in CM (other than Dembele of course) which helps when under the cosh as we stop the opposition from having the ball and attacking us - think he has been under used these past couple of months
 
billyiddo said:
Carroll does quite a good job of helping us see out games imv - keeps possession better than any other option we have in CM (other than Dembele of course) which helps when under the cosh as we stop the opposition from having the ball and attacking us - think he has been under used these past couple of months
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My thoughts as well, I like Carroll and for me he is one player I want us to keep and as you say used more often especially towards the end of games.
 
parklane1 said:
My thoughts as well, I like Carroll and for me he is one player I want us to keep and as you say used more often especially towards the end of games.
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A lot depends on the player himself. If he is happy to be a squad player at a Top 6 Club then fine. He wants regular starts he will need to move on, because there is no way on earth he will break into our best X1.
Same for Mason too I am afraid.

Every club needs a few squad players who are happy to be just that, its whether these two and maybe Bentalabe accept that. Jermaine Jenas was perfect for me in that way, towards the end of his career he never appeared to kick up a fuss that he wasnt getting a regualar start and he was a decent replacement who could chip in with goals when called upon.
 
parklane1 said:
My thoughts as well, I like Carroll and for me he is one player I want us to keep and as you say used more often especially towards the end of games.
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the only thing is im not sure if that alone is enough to keep him in the squad, all 3 of the reserve CMs in the balance this summer have unique abilities - a player comprising the best of each would be fantastic, i suppose it's a case of keeping the one (or two) which are most likely to improve their all round game.

i couldn't call which will be the ones to go
 
Spur of the moment said:
Sure you can say what you like, but if you cannot come up with intelligent, balanced criticism then don't expect to be taken too seriously.

For sure it was not one of his better games, but to suggest Mason did next to nothing is just plain wrong. He put in the hard yards as always and made an absolutely critical interception first half, had he not been back in the box at that point we would likely have conceded at a critical moment just before half-time:

45'+1'

CLOSE! That’s top-class defending from Mason, who gets across in front of Davis to prevent the former Rangers midfielder getting on the end of Tadic’s cross, which would have capped off a superb Southampton counter-attack that their goalscorer, who is flourishing in his role behind Long, started.​
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Ah dear is this still going? In my opinion watching the game he was very poor, I like him as I like all our players but on this day he was awful and if you can't see that then it's not my problem. Quoting one tackle he made is all well and good but I don't see the quote about the horrendous pass he played that led to their winner?
 
Spurmac1974 said:
Ah dear is this still going? In my opinion watching the game he was very poor, I like him as I like all our players but on this day he was awful and if you can't see that then it's not my problem. Quoting one tackle he made is all well and good but I don't see the quote about the horrendous pass he played that led to their winner?
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Surely out brick defending was a bigger contribution to their winner???
 
There is a reason that Dembele is currently benching Mason. Mason doesnt cut it for me. He is no Harry Kane. I foresee a future stint in the Championship or lower league table clubs. He has had a real poor season IMHO.
 
afsoc4life said:
There is a reason that Dembele is currently benching Mason. Mason doesnt cut it for me. He is no Harry Kane. I foresee a future stint in the Championship or lower league table clubs. He has had a real poor season IMHO.
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One reason is also the injury he sustained at Sunderland (whilst scoring the winner, our first winner of the season as I recall). I am not for one second suggesting he is better than Dembele, but I do feel that conclusions about Mason's season that don't take his injury into account are unbalanced.
 
paxtonwolf said:
A lot depends on the player himself. If he is happy to be a squad player at a Top 6 Club then fine. He wants regular starts he will need to move on, because there is no way on earth he will break into our best X1.
Same for Mason too I am afraid.

Every club needs a few squad players who are happy to be just that, its whether these two and maybe Bentalabe accept that. Jermaine Jenas was perfect for me in that way, towards the end of his career he never appeared to kick up a fuss that he wasnt getting a regualar start and he was a decent replacement who could chip in with goals when called upon.
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I do agree with this, however IF Poch is planning on bringing in other options for CM ( which imo he should/has to) then there will be outgoings because if not we will have players sitting on their arses not getting games. Now if that is to happen I would rather we kept Carroll over Mason and I think he is the better player ( imo), I really do not know what will happen with Bentaleb he is still a kid and could still have a future here as he matures.
 
afsoc4life said:
There is a reason that Dembele is currently benching Mason. Mason doesnt cut it for me. He is no Harry Kane. I foresee a future stint in the Championship or lower league table clubs. He has had a real poor season IMHO.
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Mason will comfortably make it in the premier league at a good standard

He is better than a lot of players but were spoilt with Dembeke who is the best in the league IMO

Mason is better all round than the likes of McCarthy for example and he went for £14M IIRC.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Mason will comfortably make it in the premier league at a good standard

He is better than a lot of players but were spoilt with Dembeke who is the best in the league IMO

Mason is better all round than the likes of McCarthy for example and he went for £14M IIRC.
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Players make mistakes that lead to things happening, changed the course of the next few mins of the game. It's not being hyper critical it's just true. As I said before I like him and I know he's playing through an injury but he had a stinker last week when we needed him to control the game. I think you would find it difficult to get much support that he's better than McCarthy outside of Spurs fans.
 
Spurmac1974 said:
Players make mistakes that lead to things happening, changed the course of the next few mins of the game. It's not being hyper critical it's just true. As I said before I like him and I know he's playing through an injury but he had a stinker last week when we needed him to control the game. I think you would find it difficult to get much support that he's better than McCarthy outside of Spurs fans.
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Really.... I know Everton fans who have started to realise how limited McCarthy is. I said it last year that he is poo and it's shown this year with their awful defensive record despite playing two well regarded (but clearly crap) holding midfielders.

I think Mason has plenty to offer but as I've also said it's an area we need to build up our strength in as the drop without Moussa is noticeable
 
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