Given the hype, still an underachievement.
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Rooney - Is he s**t?
- Thread starter markysimmo
- Start date
Given the hype, still an underachievement.
Baleforce
Arthur Rowe
you can't judge a player on hype, by its very definition it's an exaggeration
Baleforce
Arthur Rowe
the opinion of many is that football has moved too far from its roots, influenced by money and the importance of winning over entertaining, yet a fat kid from liverpool breaks the Manchester United goal scoring record and people still aren't happy, how much more of a rags to riches story could people want?
A massive majority of professional footballers are a rags to riches story - very few are sons of hedge fund managers or ambassadors.
I'm not a fan of Rooney but fair play to him, a record is a record. The only aspect of it that grates a little is people pointing out that it took him 200 games fewer than Charlton. Rooney is a striker, Charlton was a midfielder.
I'm not a fan of Rooney but fair play to him, a record is a record. The only aspect of it that grates a little is people pointing out that it took him 200 games fewer than Charlton. Rooney is a striker, Charlton was a midfielder.
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
Rooney is a strange one for me, he is obviously a talented footballer thats without questions but I struggle to understand this relative early career plateau, he has been average for for the last 2/3 years. How do people explain it? Is it mismanagement? Is it what the call Ajex syndrome where players are full time from 16 so their career falls off earlier than others?
jts1882
Dean Richards
He's over-rated and not over-rated at the same time. There is no question that he is a very good player, and on form one of the best in the PL, but the hype does sometimes go over the top.
The point about him peaking early is well made. I think his talent meant he never had to work that hard. He never had the relentless ambition that caused the likes of Ronaldo and Bale to work hard to get in the absolute best physical condition. You look at a small player like Messi and see that even he works hard on physical training. It's hard to escape the conclusion that Rooney has coasted through his career. That doesn't mean he isn't a very good player, deserving of most of the accolades, but it does make you wonder what he could have been.
The point about him peaking early is well made. I think his talent meant he never had to work that hard. He never had the relentless ambition that caused the likes of Ronaldo and Bale to work hard to get in the absolute best physical condition. You look at a small player like Messi and see that even he works hard on physical training. It's hard to escape the conclusion that Rooney has coasted through his career. That doesn't mean he isn't a very good player, deserving of most of the accolades, but it does make you wonder what he could have been.
jts1882
Dean Richards
Fergie let players do what they want as long as they deliver. With Rooney he had a choice, let him play at the level he was or try and punish him. He must have determined that pushing Rooney would end up counterproductive. Fergie was very good at judging which buttons to push with which players. The hair drier treatment was reserved for ones he thought it would work on.
Look at Roy Keane, he was allowed all sort of leeway while at the top of his game, but was dispatched when he declined. It's possible the manner of the dispatch was partial revenge for having to put up with the previous.
Look at Roy Keane, he was allowed all sort of leeway while at the top of his game, but was dispatched when he declined. It's possible the manner of the dispatch was partial revenge for having to put up with the previous.
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
Should be nowhere near the next England starting 11 lineup. There's better players than him in every position he can play in.
K.D.D.D.D.Soc
Ian Walker
Virtually everyone plays on too long and it's not fair to have a go at him, he doesn't select the teams. I've never liked him but he's done well for his club, his England career hasn't been as good as it could have been but you can say that about everyone in the last 10 years.
glorygloryeze
Tom Huddlestone
Didn't Fergie try to punish Rooney in that final season before he retired though?
Plus the season two years before that when Rooney was threatening to leave due to United's "lack of ambition"
If Fergie had stayed longer i think Rooney would not have been as pampered as he has been since (by both club country).
He has been a great player for United it has to be said, but if he could have achieved more imo
jts1882
Dean Richards
That Rooney came out with the lack of ambition comments and Fergie kept him on rather illustrates my point. Fergie indulged him because he was still an asset. I'm not sure what you mean by Fergie trying to punish him in the final season, but perhaps this was a sign that Fergie no longer considered Rooney a key asset. You could be right, Rooney might have been less pampered or dispatched if Fergie had stayed.
I think the other problem with Rooney is lack of football brain and discipline. Scholes and Giggs were able to change their game to extend their careers, Rooney less so. Even though he has changed position he still tends to play the same indisciplined way. This was also a problem for Gerrard, although he did play a different game effectively in the Suarez season.
I think the other problem with Rooney is lack of football brain and discipline. Scholes and Giggs were able to change their game to extend their careers, Rooney less so. Even though he has changed position he still tends to play the same indisciplined way. This was also a problem for Gerrard, although he did play a different game effectively in the Suarez season.
AuroRaman
Chris Armstrong
Agree with this. Rooney still plays like he's 10 years old in the park/on the street with his mates. On one hand, when it clicks, it's great to see, he's always chasing the ball, looking to get involved, will pick the ball up from any position. On the flip-side, that sort of indiscipline just doesn't work in the modern game.
To this day, one of the finest performances I've ever seen was Rooney at the Lane, honestly can't remember what game it was, think the scoreline may have been 1-3. It was a time when everything clicked for him, he was running around all over the park, making things happen, driving with the ball, deceptively quick, just a maestro performance. Could and should have been hailed as one of the greats at the true elite level if he had both the personal and professional discipline.
glorygloryeze
Tom Huddlestone
Are you talking about the season Harry got us top 4 for the first time, and we scored first through Defoe early on but lost even though they had a man sent off?
AuroRaman
Chris Armstrong
I think it may have actually been earlier than that season, but minds gone blank now! Do you remember him having a particularly good game in that match (didn't he score?)
Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk
glorygloryeze
Tom Huddlestone
He did score to make it 3-1 when they were down to 10 men. September 2009
Perhaps you're thinking of the Jol "lasagnagate" season when they went 2-0 up with Rooney scoring both goals (one of which came from Lee Young-Po faffing about with the ball and giving it away to Park Ji-Sung)?
That was April 2006; we lost 2-1 (Jenas pulling a goal back)
Records are records, 195 PL goals is still a decent achievement.
However, re Rooney himself, my view is he was always overhyped, and the reason for his inability to step up to next level is he's not really got a weapon, he's skill is all round, he's good at almost everything (except intelligence), but not great at any specific things (e.g. not fastest, not best at taking on, not best passer, etc.).
Re why he seems to have peaked 2-3 years ago, looks like his legs are gone, and his run around approach doesn't help.
However, re Rooney himself, my view is he was always overhyped, and the reason for his inability to step up to next level is he's not really got a weapon, he's skill is all round, he's good at almost everything (except intelligence), but not great at any specific things (e.g. not fastest, not best at taking on, not best passer, etc.).
Re why he seems to have peaked 2-3 years ago, looks like his legs are gone, and his run around approach doesn't help.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
All semantics, but I'd disagree with the assessment of "all time" great. Top level yes, perhaps extraordinary in his adaptability/utility, but not great.
And while his goals/games are impressive, how bad Manure & England have played with him in side (repeatedly) and his inability to lift the side with any consistency despite quality around him leaves him (in my opinion) as high end of good players.