Roberto De Zerbi *OFFICIAL*

[thfcsteff]

Not sure, maybe it's definition of culture/mentality/whatever (conversation I had with @thfcsteff), it feels like a lazy narrative, this squad has lost more than anyone bar relegated sides for two and change seasons now (and some of them went down with better home records than us). I know @Bishop will say the squad is that bad, but again don't agree, the inability to win anything is way beyond the squad quality now. Professional athletes don't like to lose, it's not like they are dialing it in.

Agreed!

To me, there are two possible answers (not sure if someone has another?)

- There is some mystery "loser" mentality/culture in Tottenham that suddenly appeared in late stage of Ange's first season and despite changing pretty much the whole team bar 3 or 4 and the manager 3 times, still has stuck with us. I say only since then as despite Jose/Conte bitching, those sides won games, got 4th, got European spots

I think there was definitely a break-point between Ange's staunch 'my way or no way' approach and the injiury crisis which really bit hard second-season. That first season he was unlucky IMO, however in making it clear he would not adapt his ways to accomodate the injuries versus who he had available, it's fair to say he placed pressure on himself and the squad. 5th was a reasonable finish, albeit we all thought it would be CL as we headed into Xmas. That second-season was absolutely brutal, and IMO, the waves of unrest which led to him essentially being isolated from January onwards did not help one bit. We then won a trophy and took the opinion that the experience of winning together in adversity would not translate into the new league season. I personally think a fair amount of the players were both surprised and disappointed in such a judgement/decision. I'm not going to express my view again as we've done it to death LOL.

- Disaster managerial appointments, Ange simply failed tactically at the PL level, Frank failed tactically and motivationally, RDZ came initially and without changing too much seemed to pick up the team, but with new season he's gone full RDZ system and the question now is, is his bait/press tactic 3 years behind for the PL? his oddities re the #10 position is seriously limiting us. And yes, injuries, gaps in certain areas has hurt, but I'd say again and again, not 17th-20th worse team in PL valid.

It is an interesting perspective for sure. I'll avoid treading the path of opinion on each, needless to say I think there absolutely has to be something to it.

I'm not pretending to know the answer, but if I look at the two choices, while 4 bad manager choices in a row seems highly unlikely (or not knowing our leadership), vs. some narrative that is simply impossible to define (but easy stick to beat the players with), I'm more likely to believe the manager is the issue.

We saw RDZ come in last season and essentially play to the strengths of those he had. This season it is his way or no way, which I agree, is a dangerous game to implement from the getgo.

Re the Richi thing, I have no issue with picking manager over player but the disaster is the execution. As is typical Spurs, we didn't get rid of him in time, and we didn't give ourselves the change to use him if the inevitable emergency happened. Giving him a squad number and leaving him out of the match day squad would have given us way more options and protected his value more than the approach we have taken. That brickshow I put on Lange/Vinai/etc more than RDZ.

Superbly stated. Thank you.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

Agreed!



I think there was definitely a break-point between Ange's staunch 'my way or no way' approach and the injiury crisis which really bit hard second-season. That first season he was unlucky IMO, however in making it clear he would not adapt his ways to accomodate the injuries versus who he had available, it's fair to say he placed pressure on himself and the squad. 5th was a reasonable finish, albeit we all thought it would be CL as we headed into Xmas. That second-season was absolutely brutal, and IMO, the waves of unrest which led to him essentially being isolated from January onwards did not help one bit. We then won a trophy and took the opinion that the experience of winning together in adversity would not translate into the new league season. I personally think a fair amount of the players were both surprised and disappointed in such a judgement/decision. I'm not going to express my view again as we've done it to death LOL.





It is an interesting perspective for sure. I'll avoid treading the path of opinion on each, needless to say I think there absolutely has to be something to it.




We saw RDZ come in last season and essentially play to the strengths of those he had. This season it is his way or no way, which I agree, is a dangerous game to implement from the getgo.



Superbly stated. Thank you.

There’s a good article in The Athletic about whether Spurs fan can expect RDZ to click from here on in, given the first of his 5 games at Brighton. In that article, it also makes reference to the fact that he acknowledges the game has changed, the physicality of the league and where you duel and press. So you’d have to assume he’s most certainly aware and has adapted aspects of his system to work in this era.

Big day tomorrow to see if it all comes together! What was interesting about his 6th game was that they beat Chelsea 4-1. I think they had a set piece, an own goal, and other luck bouncing their way while Chelsea missed some good chances too. Point being, I think part of this is simply if we get the ball in the net, we’ll be ok. We simply cannot keep having periods in games where we are by far on top and not scoring, because it’s just impossible to sustain that level for 90 mins.

 

[Mikey10]

There’s a good article in The Athletic about whether Spurs fan can expect RDZ to click from here on in, given the first of his 5 games at Brighton. In that article, it also makes reference to the fact that he acknowledges the game has changed, the physicality of the league and where you duel and press. So you’d have to assume he’s most certainly aware and has adapted aspects of his system to work in this era.

Big day tomorrow to see if it all comes together! What was interesting about his 6th game was that they beat Chelsea 4-1. I think they had a set piece, an own goal, and other luck bouncing their way while Chelsea missed some good chances too. Point being, I think part of this is simply if we get the ball in the net, we’ll be ok. We simply cannot keep having periods in games where we are by far on top and not scoring, because it’s just impossible to sustain that level for 90 mins.

First team to score tomorrow wins imo. Two mentally fragile teams.

 

[thfcsteff]

There’s a good article in The Athletic about whether Spurs fan can expect RDZ to click from here on in, given the first of his 5 games at Brighton. In that article, it also makes reference to the fact that he acknowledges the game has changed, the physicality of the league and where you duel and press. So you’d have to assume he’s most certainly aware and has adapted aspects of his system to work in this era.

Big day tomorrow to see if it all comes together! What was interesting about his 6th game was that they beat Chelsea 4-1. I think they had a set piece, an own goal, and other luck bouncing their way while Chelsea missed some good chances too. Point being, I think part of this is simply if we get the ball in the net, we’ll be ok. We simply cannot keep having periods in games where we are by far on top and not scoring, because it’s just impossible to sustain that level for 90 mins.

I think we've been very unlucky for sure, and we have to be tough enough to blast past that bad luck and take games that we're bossing over the line.
I remain concerned as to who is going to put the ball in the next. My faith in Solanke is slim to say the very least...

 

[Muttley]

Big day tomorrow to see if it all comes together! What was interesting about his 6th game was that they beat Chelsea 4-1. I think they had a set piece, an own goal, and other luck bouncing their way while Chelsea missed some good chances too. Point being, I think part of this is simply if we get the ball in the net, we’ll be ok. We simply cannot keep having periods in games where we are by far on top and not scoring, because it’s just impossible to sustain that level for 90 mins.

I couldn't help reading this and thinking of the Wan-Bissaka moment when he was last man and took Marmoush out. We have one moment like this when we finally get the rub of the green and it can all turn quickly for our club. There is of course that argument that over a season this stuff balances itself out. I don't agree in the case of last season. In Ange's second season absolutely because of the injuries and the focus on the EL. Last season though, Howard Webbs lot cost us 8-10 points and we wouldn't even have been in the relegation zone and fighting for survival. Thinking of games like the Hammers one, we just weren't a 17th place team, as proven by RDZ when he came in.

This season feels different again. We can see the clear errors of PGMOL again unfortunately but there also feels like a different dynamic. That fragility is still there despite a new manager and a churn of the squad. It is really hard to put your finger on why we're not starting to turn the corner.