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Roberto De Zerbi *OFFICIAL*

I’m in France, and believe me, RdZ really isn’t liked here; a lot of people think he’s a bad coach and overrated.
I’m not trying to be a downer—we’ve been struggling for over two years, after all—but RdZ makes rubbish decisions that even a 10-year-old could spot on the pitch.
 
Mikey10 said:
I worry too about where RDZ is already. From the shots of the bench during the game at the weekend he looked like he’d accepted defeat once the second goal went in, and the frequent throwing of players under the bus suggests someone who is already looking for something to blame should he exit.

There doesn’t seem to be any of the passion he showed on the sidelines when at Brighton.

I hope that I’m wrong, but I worry that we’ve broken another one already and hope these three weeks allow for a re-set.
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i think its an italian thing - i think we've seen a fake rdz so far being all composed and now we get the real feisty version. i hope it leads to several kicks up the backside on the players and not doubling down on his favourites.
 
The way I interpret RDZ's style is that he likes to focus way more on the improvement areas than he does the things that are OK and working. He just expects the latter to happen as part of the machine he's building. It was very subtle in his interview after Villa but he didn't really want to talk about the good things we did in the first half. He was more comfortable talking about what happened after we went 2-0 down and why it happened i.e. not getting into the right shape with 10 men as one example. That just showed where his head was at.

I think he knows that what we saw at Villa was a massive departure from what we saw against Brentford. He know the things he's been working on with his players are starting to work. As others have said though. They now need to work, rather than need to sort of work.

We have to hope that the players are brought in to his ideals and keep listening and following him. I'm pretty certain he has the attention to detail that we haven't had from the last couple of managers.
 
thfcsteff said:
Good points.

We are essentially hoping for the following...

1) Goals to start arriving from a group of players who statistically don't score many
2) Confidence to rise quickly from a group of players who are relatively new to each other (especially in key areas)
3) Fighting spirit to generate from a group of players still somewhat under the shadow of the previous season even if they weren't at the club at that time.
4) The discovery of enough fitness to be able to play multiple games with a stable line-up and great options off the bench for changes at key moments.

Of those four, only one feels nailed on and that is number 4. Everything else is wildly unpredictable.
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I think the first point needs to be taken with a pinch of salt, because depending on the system and their partners, a player's output could be quite different. If you're playing alongside a goal magnet, for instance, you're probably going to struggle to hit double-figures. Likewise, if you're a winger, the end result will vary depending on whether your manager wants you to hug the line or cut inside.

Marmoush is a good example, as I think he had decent stats at Frankfurt. Solanke had one good-ish season at Bournemouth, which suggests that under the right circumstances, he can (could?) score. The real question is whether the players have the mental attributes to get the job done when they're in front of the goal.

Unfortunately, it probably doesn't change the answer to your point - I was just being pedantic here!
 
thfcsteff said:
Good points.

We are essentially hoping for the following...

1) Goals to start arriving from a group of players who statistically don't score many
2) Confidence to rise quickly from a group of players who are relatively new to each other (especially in key areas)
3) Fighting spirit to generate from a group of players still somewhat under the shadow of the previous season even if they weren't at the club at that time.
4) The discovery of enough fitness to be able to play multiple games with a stable line-up and great options off the bench for changes at key moments.

Of those four, only one feels nailed on and that is number 4. Everything else is wildly unpredictable.
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Jesus, Steff. If you're not eternally optimistic, we're screwed...

I'm not worried one bit yet. Yeah we're bottom, it's been a very disappointing start but it will turn around. I've no doubt. On the goals, I hear about this a lot as if we have a team of Rasiaks or Andy Booths. These lads can contribute goals at a level his Brighton team did (where Evan Ferguson was his top scorer with about 12 in 37 games or something. Highest in both % and absolute terms). I'd rather a Kane or a Son, of course, but we don't have that and they were generational talents. These lads can still chip in with goals at a decent rate.

We've hired a very good manager, we've given him a hell of a lot of money and a lot of control. We've shipped out players that he didn't want for whatever reason. We've done all the things we should have done in principle - it'll turn. It just needs patience. This is what a successful rebuild or reset can sometimes look like - see Arteta at Woolwich, Fergie at United, Iraola at Bournemouth, Poch at Spurs.

We're trying to shift the weight of negativity that two years of unprecedented awful results has brought. That's not easy or quick but it will happen. We just have to, as a long haired American rocker once sang, keep the faith.
 
Mikey10 said:
Having done a lot of reading over the past few days around his various stints at other clubs (something I hadn't done before tbh) I am genuinely interested to know what the evidence is for this.

Theo Delaney on this week's Spurs Show described RDZ as having "a stellar CV." I'm just not seeing that.
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He doesn't have a stellar CV really but it is impressive. He did well at Benevento and Sassuolo, won the cup with Donetsk and left them top of the table, finished second with Marseilles (which is as high as they can realistically finish) and did a very good job with Brighton. Pep has described him as one of the most influential managers of the last 25 years. His CV is not laden with trophies but he's clearly talented.

Someone likened him potentially to Bielsa on here - I think that could turn out to be a good comparison. Either way, given all that and given the backing we've given him, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that he will turn this around. First two months of the season get written off for me - I really put no stock in the results, disappointing as they are.

This season is truly transitional for me - we finish away from the relegation zone, it'll have been successful IMO. We can still easily do that.
 
DeanoAustin said:
He doesn't have a stellar CV really but it is impressive. He did well at Benevento and Sassuolo, won the cup with Donetsk and left them top of the table, finished second with Marseilles (which is as high as they can realistically finish) and did a very good job with Brighton. Pep has described him as one of the most influential managers of the last 25 years. His CV is not laden with trophies but he's clearly talented.

Someone likened him potentially to Bielsa on here - I think that could turn out to be a good comparison. Either way, given all that and given the backing we've given him, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that he will turn this around. First two months of the season get written off for me - I really put no stock in the results, disappointing as they are.

This season is truly transitional for me - we finish away from the relegation zone, it'll have been successful IMO. We can still easily do that.
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I’m also not putting too much stock into our results so far, disappointing as they have been.

But I’m not particularly convinced by his previous managerial record tbh.

A fair bit of time spent bumping around relatively minor teams in Italy (including a sacking after three months at Palermo, a relegation with Benevento, and a more successful spell with Sassuolo); a 6th place finish at Brighton in the season he took over from Potter, followed by 11th place and a fairly undignified exit (Hurzeler had them back up to 8th the following season with 18 more points gained during the campaign); a cup at Shaktar; and a spell that started well in Marseille, but which saw him backed massively in the transfer market, and which ended with recriminations and bad feeling all round. (According to what I’ve read, Marseille now have the second most expensively assembled team in the league, but lie 15th, with many of their fans feeling the squad lacks any balance).

It seems mixed at best to me, and fairly underwhelming when viewed with even half a critical eye.

I really hope he turns out to be the new Poch (or, even better, a Poch who wins things!) but I’m seeing worrying signs, and not a lot in his past that, for me, justifies the taglines which seem to be attributed to his managerial career.
 
Mikey10 said:
I’m also not putting too much stock into our results so far, disappointing as they have been.

But I’m not particularly convinced by his previous managerial record tbh.

A fair bit of time spent bumping around relatively minor teams in Italy (including a sacking after three months at Palermo, a relegation with Benevento, and a more successful spell with Sassuolo); a 6th place finish at Brighton in the season he took over from Potter, followed by 11th place and a fairly undignified exit (Hurzeler had them back up to 8th the following season with 18 more points gained during the campaign); a cup at Shaktar; and a spell that started well in Marseille, but which saw him backed massively in the transfer market, and which ended with recriminations and bad feeling all round. (According to what I’ve read, Marseille now have the second most expensively assembled team in the league, but lie 15th, with many of their fans feeling the squad lacks any balance).

It seems mixed at best to me, and fairly underwhelming when viewed with even half a critical eye.

I really hope he turns out to be the new Poch (or, even better, a Poch who wins things!) but I’m seeing worrying signs, and not a lot in his past that, for me, justifies the taglines which seem to be attributed to his managerial career.
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They are fair comments - that's why I don't believe his CV is stellar. It's mixed with some signs he could really excel in the right environment.

But, for me, even at his worst, he's good enough to get us up the table and away from a dogfight particularly with the backing he's had. For me, if there's any question around his future at the moment, it can only be against an expectation that we'll finish in the CL/European positions or higher and I've never had that expectation for this season (I hoped but I know that's a pretty big hope).

Fact is, we were clearly a top 6 club for the best part of two decades. We no longer are - expectations have to reflect that.
 
I really think it far to early to make ANY kind of real opinion about where we are at the moment, our team has been a bit of a mess over the last couple of seasons for sure. But the guy has only had a handfull of games [ 9/10 i think] and IT WILL take more games to show any REAL progress.

Now do not get me wrong as i am not really happy about the going so far but it REALLY is early to start flapping IMO. I guess it takes all sorts. COYS
 
parklane1 said:
I really think it far to early to make ANY kind of real opinion about where we are at the moment, our team has been a bit of a mess over the last couple of seasons for sure. But the guy has only had a handfull of games [ 9/10 i think] and IT WILL take more games to show any REAL progress.

Now do not get me wrong as i am not really happy about the going so far but it REALLY is early to start flapping IMO. I guess it takes all sorts. COYS
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Don’t know if you were referring to me, but I’m definitely not flapping (😃) and agree it’s too early to judge much.

Having looked into his previous managerial tenures a bit over the last couple of days, though (something I hadn’t done before - I’d accepted what seems to be the general media view, that being of RDZ as an elite coach) I was a bit taken aback to find it is so…ordinary. I’m struggling to understand now where this branding of him as an elite coach actually comes from.

And while I definitely agree that he needs to be given time, we have a much more demanding run of games coming up for our next five fixtures. Improvement is going to need to come pretty quickly now. I’m hoping it does!
 
Mikey10 said:
I’m also not putting too much stock into our results so far, disappointing as they have been.

But I’m not particularly convinced by his previous managerial record tbh.

A fair bit of time spent bumping around relatively minor teams in Italy (including a sacking after three months at Palermo, a relegation with Benevento, and a more successful spell with Sassuolo); a 6th place finish at Brighton in the season he took over from Potter, followed by 11th place and a fairly undignified exit (Hurzeler had them back up to 8th the following season with 18 more points gained during the campaign); a cup at Shaktar; and a spell that started well in Marseille, but which saw him backed massively in the transfer market, and which ended with recriminations and bad feeling all round. (According to what I’ve read, Marseille now have the second most expensively assembled team in the league, but lie 15th, with many of their fans feeling the squad lacks any balance).

It seems mixed at best to me, and fairly underwhelming when viewed with even half a critical eye.

I really hope he turns out to be the new Poch (or, even better, a Poch who wins things!) but I’m seeing worrying signs, and not a lot in his past that, for me, justifies the taglines which seem to be attributed to his managerial career.
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The 6th place is still the best place finish Brighton has ever achieved, despite being one of the most widely praised clubs for how well they are run (well after he left). I could be wrong, but it's also the highest any of the non top 6/Villa/Saudi Sportswashing Machine group have finished probably since Leicester. 2nd with Marseille is probably the ceiling there as well.

I'd also argue his time at Brighton changed how those kind of teams could play, they went after bigger teams, not just be 3-5-2, soak it up, hit on counter. Do I think he's an elite manager? no, but it's hard for anyone to have that claim without getting a shot at a big club. I wouldn't push to belittle his record.

The issue like all managers is now his record/history doesn't matter, he's at Spurs (a special ind of circus) and has to show he can make it work here, and unlike a lot of Spurs managers in the past, he won't have the "they didn't spend", "I didn't have my first choice players" excuse.
 
Mr Gogolak said:
I think the first point needs to be taken with a pinch of salt, because depending on the system and their partners, a player's output could be quite different. If you're playing alongside a goal magnet, for instance, you're probably going to struggle to hit double-figures. Likewise, if you're a winger, the end result will vary depending on whether your manager wants you to hug the line or cut inside.

Marmoush is a good example, as I think he had decent stats at Frankfurt. Solanke had one good-ish season at Bournemouth, which suggests that under the right circumstances, he can (could?) score. The real question is whether the players have the mental attributes to get the job done when they're in front of the goal.

Unfortunately, it probably doesn't change the answer to your point - I was just being pedantic here!
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Oh I think it's a really fair point mate.
 
Mikey10 said:
Don’t know if you were referring to me, but I’m definitely not flapping (😃) and agree it’s too early to judge much.

Having looked into his previous managerial tenures a bit over the last couple of days, though (something I hadn’t done before - I’d accepted what seems to be the general media view, that being of RDZ as an elite coach) I was a bit taken aback to find it is so…ordinary. I’m struggling to understand now where this branding of him as an elite coach actually comes from.

And while I definitely agree that he needs to be given time, we have a much more demanding run of games coming up for our next five fixtures. Improvement is going to need to come pretty quickly now. I’m hoping it does!
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Not directed at you mate at all, but there are some who are. :cool:.
 
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