Richarlison

[billyiddo]

That's literally what you've said though, like an actual example of what I'm accusing you of doing

I'm not going to engage in debate while people lead with such disingenuous takes

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

Honestly I think you’re the one strawmanning by zeroing in on it.

In your view is he an option that is going to improve results? If so you’re saying he is going to do something that the currently selected players can’t do. In which case you might be saying he is sort of a saviour. If you feel he’s an option that wouldn’t materially improve results, then I’d wonder why anyone wants him as an option in the first place.

I think the view most hold is that Richy is not a saviour but as the window slammed such and he is only one of two strikers that are available, so the situation we find ourselves in with him hurts us with the lack of options we would have even with him available. No one is calling him a saviour (I repeat that because its been levelled on here by others too) but along with lack of options the optics on the whole drama is also hurting the club as it shows absolutely no signs of being let up in press conferences and the cloud remains.

Ultimately, Richy or no Richy, our goal options are fcuking awful, take the side show out of it and someone needs to be accountable for that before the Richy situation IMO

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

That's literally what you've said

Yes, and your view is ‘Aha! They said the word saviour! That means there’s absolutely no point to anything they have said whatsoever!’

 

[billyiddo]

Yes, and your view is ‘Aha! They said the word saviour! That means there’s absolutely no point to anything they have said whatsoever!’

Well yeah - try not talking gonads if you want people to engage

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

I think the view most hold is that Richy is not a saviour but as the window slammed such and he is only one of two strikers that are available, so the situation we find ourselves in with him hurts us with the lack of options we would have even with him available. No one is calling him a saviour (I repeat that because its been levelled on here by others too) but along with lack of options the optics on the whole drama is also hurting the club as it shows absolutely no signs of being let up in press conferences and the cloud remains.

Ultimately, Richy or no Richy, our goal options are fcuking awful, take the side show out of it and someone needs to be accountable for that before the Richy situation IMO

I can respect the fact that you don’t like there being a cloud. I happen to think that you need to make a stand against some in order to get more buy in from others. But I can respect the view you don’t like that.

Otherwise though, if he’s not a saviour, I just don’t think there’s any argument he should be registered. I think Solanke is better, I’d rather have Marmoush in the 9 spot because he can actually control the ball under pressure and participate in build up, and overall I don’t want an unprofessional player who speaks out against the club and the manager to have a spot when I don’t think we need them. The club were trying to facilitate a multi million pound deal with him, it’s serious business and he tried to make a point on social media instead. I’m so over that kind of behaviour.

If someone was to say ‘I think we’re more likely to win that game with Richy’ then I’d get it. I’m not quite following why we should allow him to be registered given he has unprofessionally gone against the club and the thought is that he wouldn’t really improve things?

Option for options sake, behaviour, culture, standards be dammed.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

I can respect the fact that you don’t like there being a cloud. I happen to think that you need to make a stand against some in order to get more buy in from others. But I can respect the view you don’t like that.

Otherwise though, if he’s not a saviour, I just don’t think there’s any argument he should be registered. I think Solanke is better, I’d rather have Marmoush in the 9 spot because he can actually control the ball under pressure and participate in build up, and overall I don’t want an unprofessional player who speaks out against the club and the manager to have a spot when I don’t think we need them. The club were trying to facilitate a multi million pound deal with him, it’s serious business and he tried to make a point on social media instead. I’m so over that kind of behaviour.

If someone was to say ‘I think we’re more likely to win that game with Richy’ then I’d get it. I’m not quite following why we should allow him to be registered given he has unprofessionally gone against the club and the thought is that he wouldn’t really improve things?

Option for options sake, behaviour, culture, standards be dammed.

Again I think you are missing the point and TBH I can't be bothered to go round in circles.

Ultimately we are short a striker till Jan, we are going to have to suck it up and continue to make excuses for RDZ because he doesn't have the team he needs.

Joy

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

Well yeah - try not talking gonads if you want people to engage

I’m sorry mate but I’ve actually tried to engage you on the substance and I’ve been pretty clear on why I think what I do, I’ve expanded on it, I think I’ve made pretty fair points. I’ve been respectful. Not really a great look for forum staff to say I’ve been talking gonads…I’ve offered opinion, I’ve tried to substantiate it and make a fair argument, not really sure what the issue is. You have decided to take issue with the word saviour rather than engage in the substance. And to that I would say still…if you aren’t actually confident he would improve things, why on earth do you even care about him being registered!

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

Again I think you are missing the point and TBH I can't be bothered to go round in circles.

Ultimately we are short a striker till Jan, we are going to have to suck it up and continue to make excuses for RDZ because he doesn't have the team he needs.

Joy

How am I missing the point? I don’t think we’re short, because I’d personally rather play Solanke and Marmoush ahead of him. I’d rather have Tel on the left and as the third 9 option if it came to it. You seemingly want ‘the option’ which is fine. I’m just saying I disagree. Not sure I’m missing the point.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

How am I missing the point? I don’t think we’re short, because I’d personally rather play Solanke and Marmoush ahead of him. I’d rather have Tel on the left and as the third 9 option if it came to it. You seemingly want ‘the option’ which is fine. I’m just saying I disagree. Not sure I’m missing the point.

You are missing the point but its fine.

We move on

 

[billyiddo]

I’m sorry mate but I’ve actually tried to engage you on the substance and I’ve been pretty clear on why I think what I do, I’ve expanded on it, I think I’ve made pretty fair points. I’ve been respectful. Not really a great look for forum staff to say I’ve been talking gonads…I’ve offered opinion, I’ve tried to substantiate it and make a fair argument, not really sure what the issue is. You have decided to take issue with the word saviour rather than engage in the substance. And to that I would say still…if you aren’t actually confident he would improve things, why on earth do you even care about him being registered!

I don't know why you're choosing to die on this hill when the obvious thing to do was hold your hands up and admit to misrepresenting peoples opinions.


Thinking Richarlison could have been a used as an option, given we couldn't sell him isn't as easy to argue against i suppose

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

I don't know why you're choosing to die on this hill when the obvious thing to do was hold your hands up and admit to misrepresenting peoples opinions.


Thinking Richarlison could have been a used as an option, given we couldn't sell him isn't as easy to argue against i suppose

If we take Richy out of the equation like we had sold him, If we have so many good options why are clearly not manifesting themselves into goals?

The fact people can't even acknowledge we are a striker short regardless is just all levels of delusion that I think is linked to not being able to say that the clubs maybe made a mistake this summer.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

I don't know why you're choosing to die on this hill when the obvious thing to do was hold your hands up and admit to misrepresenting peoples opinions

WHAT!!?

I’ve explained what I meant. Take out saviour and replace it with ‘people want Richy as an option because they think it would be better with him in the side’. I simply used a word that I thought encapsulated that in a light hearted way and didn’t expect it to be so triggering. But in any case, I’ve already tried to explain what I meant and engage in the substance.

You happen to not be confident in saying that having Richy would even improve results. That’s fine. I would just say again that I am wondering why you would even want him registered in that case. Because my whole argument has been that I don’t think he is better than what we’ve selected, and I happen to think the cultural and behavioural standard benefits longer term outweigh registering a player that isn’t going to improve results. If you disagree with that, fine!

Honestly mate I think this is pretty low, and frankly a bit bizarre. I’m trying to debate and I’m getting accosted for ‘misrepresenting peoples opinions’ which is clearly not what I’m doing. I used a word. We are typing things out and not speaking live here. I’ve already explained way back what I was going for.

 

[billyiddo]

WHAT!!?

I’ve explained what I meant. Take out saviour and replace it with ‘people want Richy as an option because they think it would be better with him in the side’. I simply used a word that I thought encapsulated that in a light hearted way and didn’t expect it to be so triggering. But in any case, I’ve already tried to explain what I meant and engage in the substance.

You happen to not be confident in saying that having Richy would even improve results. That’s fine. I would just say again that I am wondering why you would even want him registered in that case. Because my whole argument has been that I don’t think he is better than what we’ve selected, and I happen to think the cultural and behavioural standard benefits longer term outweigh registering a player that isn’t going to improve results. If you disagree with that, fine!

Honestly mate I think this is pretty low, and frankly a bit bizarre. I’m trying to debate and I’m getting accosted for ‘misrepresenting peoples opinions’ which is clearly not what I’m doing. I used a word. We are typing things out and not speaking live here. I’ve already explained way back what I was going for.

Ok so you agree that people weren't calling Richy our saviour - glad that's settled

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

If we take Richy out of the equation like we had sold him, If we have so many good options why are clearly not manifesting themselves into goals?

The fact people can't even acknowledge we are a striker short regardless is just all levels of delusion that I think is linked to not being able to say that the clubs maybe made a mistake this summer.

I simply don’t think we are a striker short because personally I wouldn’t be playing him ahead of Marmoush, Solanke, or Tel.

We are not scoring enough goals yet because we have a lot of new players learning to play a new way.

Again you like to assume why an argument is being made, rather than just engaging on the substance as it is. I think we facilitated plenty of moves for Richy, none of them worked out, and I happen to believe the cultural and behavioural standards benefits outweigh registering someone that has been unprofessional.

And I’ll say again, are we short because you think that having Richy would have improved things so far?

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

Ok so you agree that people weren't calling Richy our saviour - glad that's settled

It was settled about an hour ago when I made the post explaining what I meant.

Again, I think it’s very low for you to be insinuating that I’ve tried to misrepresent people’s opinions here. And very odd / personal.

 

[billyiddo]

It was settled about an hour ago when I made the post explaining what I meant.

Again, I think it’s very low for you to be insinuating that I’ve tried to misrepresent people’s opinions here. And very odd / personal.

But i mean you literally did - hence why you've had to explain why you didn't mean what you actually said.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

And I’ll say again, are we short because you think that having Richy would have improved things so far?

We are short because we have one out and out 9 in the side so I think culling one of the only two 9s we have is short sighted, I would say the same if it was Big Will

Tel and Marmoush are not 9s, Marmoush has proven that all season and Tel could not even get on the bench today in front of two CBs. He is also not being deployed centrally ever

Not one of the players you mention have notched a single goal this season, that has nothing to do with Richy BTW, I am just stating a fact.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

But i mean you literally did - hence why you've had to explain yourself.

No mate, this is what I said:

“Maybe the players that we do have might started getting a bit annoyed with a prevailing narrative that Richy is the saviour of this team, when actually they just need the time to acclimate to this system? Maybe RDZ is protecting them by saying this?”

Whose opinions am I mis representing there? Yours? Marty’s? I was talking in the context of RDZ responding to a question in a press conference, and explaining why HE might feel the need to go to bat for the players he has selected, rather than let a narrative prevail that we should be registering Richarlison or offering him a way back because results haven’t been good enough. The word saviour was used as a catch all for the narrative that the journalist asking the question may have been getting at, and why RDZ felt the need to nip it in the bud.

I never insinuated that anyone on this forum thought anything that they didn’t. And the fact that I engaged respectfully and expanded on what I meant, and that you’ve still accused me of doing that, is low, personal, and odd from a forum staff member.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

We are short because we have one out and out 9 in the side so I think culling one of the only two 9s we have is short sighted, I would say the same if it was Big Will

Tel and Marmoush are not 9s, Marmoush has proven that all season and Tel could not even get on the bench today in front of two CBs. He is also not being deployed centrally ever

Not one of the players you mention have notched a single goal this season, that has nothing to do with Richy BTW, I am just stating a fact.

Even accepting these facts, I would still rather Marmoush in the 9 position, in an RDZ system, than Richy. With no Europe I think we have better options than Richy for that spot. Just my opinion.

Tel…yeah it’s close. But again I go back to the behavioural standards point. I happen to believe that’s important enough, when we have Solanke and Marmoush infront of Richy, to see through. Again just my opinion.

 

[billyiddo]

No mate, this is what I said:

“Maybe the players that we do have might started getting a bit annoyed with a prevailing narrative that Richy is the saviour of this team, when actually they just need the time to acclimate to this system? Maybe RDZ is protecting them by saying this?”

Whose opinions am I mis representing there? Yours? Marty’s? I was talking in the context of RDZ responding to a question in a press conference, and explaining why HE might feel the need to go to bat for the players he has selected, rather than let a narrative prevail that we should be registering Richarlison or offering him a way back because results haven’t been good enough. The word saviour was used as a catch all for the narrative that the journalist asking the question may have been getting at, and why RDZ felt the need to nip it in the bud.

I never insinuated that anyone on this forum thought anything that they didn’t. And the fact that I engaged respectfully and expanded on what I meant, and that you’ve still accused me of doing that, is low, personal, and odd from a forum staff member.

What you said was : Maybe the players that we do have might started getting a bit annoyed with a prevailing narrative that Richy is the saviour of this team

You've then spent a several pages trying to explain why that isn't what you actually meant and that there is no prevailing attitude that Richy is our saviour.

Literally the only thing i was arguing against