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Redknapp

billyiddo said:
no sorry i do not agree with the sentiment that a manager who has achieved a lot somewhere else is in anyway more likely to achieve something with your club than a lesser known manager that has shown the attributes you require from him. of course there are a handful of exceptions, but most if not all of those (and we're talking 3/4/5 tops in the world) will be out of our reach.

if there is a person who has shown X Y and Z of what you want from a future manager then you get them in because they are the best person for the job - wining a trophy with another team does not equal winning a trophy with your team - the sooner clubs in our position realize this the sooner English managers will get the experience their foreign counterparts get and sooner they prove that we too can produce top managers

(of course if there is a manager who has the required attributes who has achieved top level success that we can get then fine go for them but too many people focus on what a manager has won rather than the qualities that he will bring here)
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I never said that. You're missing my point completely and therefore this debate has reached its conclusion between us.
 
The Moonlit Knight said:
I never said that. You're missing my point completely and therefore this debate has reached its conclusion between us.
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why bail out on an interesting debate just because you think i have missed the point, why not try and reword it if you think i have misunderstood ? Im happy to listen to what you have to say so why not pay me the same courtesy ?

correct me if i am wrong but you have implied that we shouldn't be going for a manager that hasn't proven himself at the 'top level' because we have a lot to lose should it not work out ?

what i am saying to you is that the best man for the job is one which has shown the attributes that we require - regardless of their successes elsewhere, there is as much risk in appointing (for arguments sake) Rodgers as there is a foreign manager who has trophy wins elsewhere.


yes it is easier to go for an unproven manager when you are mid table or whatever but that shouldn't be the case - the best man for the job has the required qualities. i don't view managing a top club or winning a trophy as a quality/attribute
 
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I have no way of knowing ( and in all honesty no one does) if the likes of Rodgers, Lambert, Martinez, Moyes, O'Neill etc would be a sucsess as a manager here, they would all be a risk but then again so would Jose, Hiddingdong because it always is.

But i find it hard to understand that some seem to think that any of them are more or less of a risk then Redknapp was when we appointed him, his record of one trophy and two relegations did not ( from what i remember from the time) inspire most fans i knew. He has done better then most thought he would there is no doubt about that, so why can the names mentioned not do the same?
 
parklane1 said:
But i find it hard to understand that some seem to think that any of them are more or less of a risk then Redknapp was when we appointed him, his record of one trophy and two relegations did not ( from what i remember from the time) inspire most fans i knew. He has done better then most thought he would there is no doubt about that, so why can the names mentioned not do the same?
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I think comparing the risk to appointing a new manager now to appointing Redknapp is a bit of a red herring. Surely, the question is whether replacing Redknapp with some one else is a risk and the likelihood of someone coming in and improving on the results that we have had under Redknapp.
 
parklane1 said:
I have no way of knowing ( and in all honesty no one does) if the likes of Rodgers, Lambert, Martinez, Moyes, O'Neill etc would be a sucsess as a manager here, they would all be a risk but then again so would Jose, Hiddingdong because it always is.

But i find it hard to understand that some seem to think that any of them are more or less of a risk then Redknapp was when we appointed him, his record of one trophy and two relegations did not ( from what i remember from the time) inspire most fans i knew. He has done better then most thought he would there is no doubt about that, so why can the names mentioned not do the same?
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From what I can gather from this thread, it seems they can't because expectations are infinitely higher now than they were when we were bottom of the table after eight games. Lambert/Martinez/Moyes/Rodgers would be expected to rotate the squad effectively, make us more lethal when converting our chances and conduct organized, tactical training sessions. All while winning most games and finishing in the Top 4.

Sure, it's a valid point. But why should they not be able to, anyway? And if they can't, what about people like AVB, RDM (if Chelsea foolishly dismiss him and appoint a 'big name'), Francesco Guidolin or even Antonio Conte (unlikely, but still)? Managers who have proven that they can both handle pressure and do the above-mentioned things, often at clubs with much higher expectations than ours? Why not them?

Just an academic question that I'd like an answer to.
 
milo said:
I think comparing the risk to appointing a new manager now to appointing Redknapp is a bit of a red herring. Surely, the question is whether replacing Redknapp with some one else is a risk and the likelihood of someone coming in and improving on the results that we have had under Redknapp.
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But there are some who were suggesting that appointing any of the managers named was to much of a risk, but appointing Redknapp was not one and that is not true ( imo).

Only Levy will decide if/when Redknapp departs, not us fans.
 
DubaiSpur said:
From what I can gather from this thread, it seems they can't because expectations are infinitely higher now than they were when we were bottom of the table after eight games. Lambert/Martinez/Moyes/Rodgers would be expected to rotate the squad effectively, make us more lethal when converting our chances and conduct organized, tactical training sessions. All while winning most games and finishing in the Top 4.

Sure, it's a valid point. But why should they not be able to, anyway? And if they can't, what about people like AVB, RDM (if Chelsea foolishly dismiss him and appoint a 'big name'), Francesco Guidolin or even Antonio Conte (unlikely, but still)? Managers who have proven that they can both handle pressure and do the above-mentioned things, often at clubs with much higher expectations than ours? Why not them?

Just an academic question that I'd like an answer to.
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The truth is there is no answer because no body knows if they can or not, just like no one knew if Redknapp would be a success or a failure, appointing a manager is always a risk no matter who they are and that is the point i and others were trying to make.
 
parklane1 said:
But there are some who were suggesting that appointing any of the managers named was to much of a risk, but appointing Redknapp was not one and that is not true ( imo).

Only Levy will decide if/when Redknapp departs, not us fans.
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I agree that any managerial appointment is a risk and find it hard to understand why anyone could think otherwise. What I find odd is that people think that replacing Redknapp will be easy or that it will be easy for the next manager to improve on our results under Redknapp.
 
parklane1 said:
But there are some who were suggesting that appointing any of the managers named was to much of a risk, but appointing Redknapp was not one and that is not true ( imo).

Only Levy will decide if/when Redknapp departs, not us fans.
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You'd be surprised what effctive fan pressure can do to the decision-making process of the club. 30,000 fans chanting '(Insert manager here) OUT!' at game after game, refusing to attend the matches and staging protests outside the stadium will, almost definitely, force a chairman into action. Because in the end, the club has to keep the fans happy, no matter the cost. Even in this age of superclubs trampling roughshod over fan power, that is one of football's great truths.

Not by any means suggesting we do this, or that Redknapp deserves it, but if we did do it, Levy would undoubtedly be forced into doing it.
 
milo said:
I agree that any managerial appointment is a risk and find it hard to understand why anyone could think otherwise. What I find odd is that people think that replacing Redknapp will be easy or that it will be easy for the next manager to improve on our results under Redknapp.
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Again i am not saying it will be easy, but that does not mean if we have to do so we shoud not try.
 
DubaiSpur said:
You'd be surprised what effctive fan pressure can do to the decision-making process of the club. 30,000 fans chanting '(Insert manager here) OUT!' at game after game, refusing to attend the matches and staging protests outside the stadium will, almost definitely, force a chairman into action. Because in the end, the club has to keep the fans happy, no matter the cost. Even in this age of superclubs trampling roughshod over fan power, that is one of football's great truths.

Not by any means suggesting we do this, or that Redknapp deserves it, but if we did do it, Levy would undoubtedly be forced into doing it.
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Not sure that is true, i remember the fans protesting about El Tel being sacked, most fans i knew did not want Jol out but the club did so anyway. In Levy we have a chairman who will do what he thinks is best for the club and if that means getting rid of Rednapp or not doing so he will.
 
billyiddo said:
why bail out on an interesting debate just because you think i have missed the point, why not try and reword it if you think i have misunderstood ? Im happy to listen to what you have to say so why not pay me the same courtesy ?

correct me if i am wrong but you have implied that we shouldn't be going for a manager that hasn't proven himself at the 'top level' because we have a lot to lose should it not work out ?

what i am saying to you is that the best man for the job is one which has shown the attributes that we require - regardless of their successes elsewhere, there is as much risk in appointing (for arguments sake) Rodgers as there is a foreign manager who has trophy wins elsewhere.


yes it is easier to go for an unproven manager when you are mid table or whatever but that shouldn't be the case - the best man for the job has the required qualities. i don't view managing a top club or winning a trophy as a quality/attribute
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People keep talking about the next Manager who can take us forward. Those people completely miss the point. We are a bloody good side at the moment. The most important thing a new manager can do for us is make sure we don't go backwards. Risk aversion. The more proven the Manager, the less risk there is of them taken us backwards. When your side had a lot of room for improvement you can take more chances with the Manager. Realistically to improve our team is going to be very tough. There is more chance of us going backwards than forwards (irrespective of the Manager actually).

But at our development stage, taking a chance could be catastrophic. We aren't Chelsea who can take a chance on a Manager and still attract players the following season regardless of Champion's League status by throwing money at them. One terrible season could undo years of hard work.
 
parklane1 said:
Not sure that is true, i remember the fans protesting about El Tel being sacked, most fans i knew did not want Jol out but the club did so anyway. In Levy we have a chairman who will do what he thinks is best for the club and if that means getting rid of Rednapp or not doing so he will.
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Different circumstances. Fans wanting a Manager to stay isn't anywhere near as influential on a Chairman as fans demanding a Manager's head.
 
The Moonlit Knight said:
People keep talking about the next Manager who can take us forward. Those people completely miss the point. We are a bloody good side at the moment. The most important thing a new manager can do for us is make sure we don't go backwards. Risk aversion. The more proven the Manager, the less risk there is of them taken us backwards. When your side had a lot of room for improvement you can take more chances with the Manager. Realistically to improve our team is going to be very tough. There is more chance of us going backwards than forwards (irrespective of the Manager actually).

But at our development stage, taking a chance could be catastrophic. We aren't Chelsea who can take a chance on a Manager and still attract players the following season regardless of Champion's League status by throwing money at them. One terrible season could undo years of hard work.
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i don't particularly deny any of that - the only part where we seem to have a difference of opinion is on who would be the best manager for the job (in a hypothetical situation where we replace Redknapp) you say a proven manager - my opinion is that a manager who has proven he has the required attributes that we are looking for IS the right man for the job, if that person happens to have a proven track record at a big club and is attainable then great let's get him in, if not i would take a manager who has less of a track record in terms of trophy/league wins etc but shows the qualities that we are looking for as opposed to being just a big name manager who has a record of achievement elsewhere.

Nayim does a good job on the last page of laying out Rogers positives, the things which make him a suitable candidate for the job - i put more stock in looking at a manager in that respect than to look at his history on Wikipedia and seeing that they have won X amount of trophies in a foreign country or that they have managed a big club, as i have said before winning trophies elsewhere is not an attribute or a quality which you would take to a new club it is just something which you have achieved - Wenger isn't regarded as a world class manager because of the trophies he has won, he is a wold class manager because of the methods he put in place and the attributes he has which has allowed him to win those trophies.

as for the part in bold, i think you have to aim to go forwards when appointing a new manager, what's that quote about standing still and being left behind ?
 
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billyiddo said:
i don't particularly deny any of that - the only part where we seem to have a difference of opinion is on who would be the best manager for the job (in a hypothetical situation where we replace Redknapp) you say a proven manager - my opinion is that a manager who has proven he has the required attributes that we are looking for IS the right man for the job, if that person happens to have a proven track record at a big club and is attainable then great let's get him in, if not i would take a manager who has less of a track record in terms of trophy/league wins etc but shows the qualities that we are looking for as opposed to being just a big name manager who has a record of achievement elsewhere.

Nayim does a good job on the last page of laying out Rogers positives, the things which make him a suitable candidate for the job - i put more stock in looking at a manager in that respect than to look at his history on Wikipedia and seeing that they have won X amount of trophies in a foreign country or that they have managed a big club, as i have said before winning trophies elsewhere is not an attribute or a quality which you would take to a new club it is just something which you have achieved - Wenger isn't regarded as a world class manager because of the trophies he has won, he is a wold class manager because of the methods he put in place and the attributes he has which has allowed him to win those trophies.

as for the part in bold, i think you have to aim to go forwards when appointing a new manager, what's that quote about standing still and being left behind ?
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And yet people talk about firing Redknapp to bring in Rodgers? I just don't get it personally. Rodgers may well turn out to be a great Manager. But it's more likely he'll turn out to be the next George Burley or Mike Walker in my opinion.
 
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