Redknapp

[elltrev]

I fuly agree with this sentiment Steff. Harry seems to appear to be happy to settle for second best. He is not a winner. His record in crucial "must win" games is abysmal. He is content to be "up there" and thinks this is the best we can hope for. Well I for one want the very best for the club. To be winners, to win cups, to qualify for the CL on a regular basis. I feel we should strive to be the best. Some are happy with mediocrity - attractive football mediocrity but mediocrity nevertheless. That is fine, that is their choice.

I am heartily sick of jibes from scum such as "bottlers", "wimps", "failures", "mind the gap" etc etc. Will we do any better under HR, I doubt it. Will we be consigned to being "nearly men", I suspect so. For me that is not enough. I want us to win things. I dont think Harry will inspire us to win things. After the last two season collapses, I too have lost faith in him to deliver. We have a very talented squad of players, with one or two additions and a real belief, we could achieve great things. To dare is to do. We must dare to believe. Harry patently doesnt believe and he doesnt inspire others to either. We must be led by a winner.

In my opinion

To be fair, his record in crucial must-win games was what got us into the Champions League last season. And than helped us to finish top of our group, beat AC Milan 1-0 away from home and then hold them at home to get to the next round. It's been worse this season and in the league last season though, I agree.

With regard to belief, isn't that was Harry's all about? Telling the players that 'no-one can live with them'? Belief has played a big part in transforming us into a team that's finished 4th twice in 3 years.

Still, I can understand that people get annoyed with what seems like nonchalance and a lack of ambition in his interviews.

 

[Zg Spur]

I fuly agree with this sentiment Steff. Harry seems to appear to be happy to settle for second best. He is not a winner. His record in crucial "must win" games is abysmal. He is content to be "up there" and thinks this is the best we can hope for. Well I for one want the very best for the club. To be winners, to win cups, to qualify for the CL on a regular basis. I feel we should strive to be the best. Some are happy with mediocrity - attractive football mediocrity but mediocrity nevertheless. That is fine, that is their choice.

I am heartily sick of jibes from scum such as "bottlers", "wimps", "failures", "mind the gap" etc etc. Will we do any better under HR, I doubt it. Will we be consigned to being "nearly men", I suspect so. For me that is not enough. I want us to win things. I dont think Harry will inspire us to win things. After the last two season collapses, I too have lost faith in him to deliver. We have a very talented squad of players, with one or two additions and a real belief, we could achieve great things. To dare is to do. We must dare to believe. Harry patently doesnt believe and he doesnt inspire others to either. We must be led by a winner.

In my opinion

I agree completly.

Sent from my HTC Wildfire S A510e using Fapatalk 2

 

[ArcspacE]

8) Do I believe Martinez/Rodgers/Lambert/my uncle could walk in and do a better job (or even have 60% chance of) = No

I've asked this question before - what exactly are you basing this conclusion on? Or any other manager in fact?

Bear in mind Redknapp came to us with a shady record at best and look what he managed to pull off

This sounds so much like the first proper girlfriend brake-up / shag - you think you'll never find better and resign to roaming the earth aimlessly with a broken heart - absolute rubbish! To suggest Arry is the absolute managerial ceiling for Tottenham Hotspur is largerly untrue, imho

 

[Enter the Pitbull]

Bear in mind Redknapp came to us with a shady record at best and look what he managed to pull off

Talk about shady, look at Klopp in Germany - relegated with Mainz, signs with Dortmund, suddenly leads them to two titles in a row!

 

[ArcspacE]

Talk about shady, look at Klopp in Germany - relegated with Mainz, signs with Dortmund, suddenly leads them to two titles in a row!

One of many examples, no doubt.

I simply fail to see the logic in conclusively stating we cannot and will not find a better manager than Arry should he leave. fudging hell, that's ridiculous!

This btw is a completely different argument to him leaving or not - just for clarity's sake

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I've asked this question before - what exactly are you basing this conclusion on? Or any other manager in fact?

Bear in mind Redknapp came to us with a shady record at best and look what he managed to pull off

This sounds so much like the first proper girlfriend brake-up / shag - you think you'll never find better and resign to roaming the earth aimlessly with a broken heart - absolute rubbish! To suggest Arry is the absolute managerial ceiling for Tottenham Hotspur is largerly untrue, imho

I think the point is, at least what I believe it to be, is that so much can screw up a manager's reign at a club, and there really is no guarentee of success. You can hire someone totally proven, or someone that looks like he's going to definitely be the next big thing, and it can fail miserably. Or you can hire someone that looks like all he has shown before is complete managerial failure and it can be an absolute masterstroke.

It has to be the right man for the right club, and there has to be loads of other things in place and going his way to make it work. Rodgers, Lambert or Martinez would probably do well with us, but there's no guarentee. And the point is, why would you risk it by sacking a manager who in the majority of his full seasons with us has seen us in the top 4?

Maybe one of these managers could get us top 3, or top 2, or push for the title, but I'm sure Harry could do it in the odd season. Do I think one of these new guys would do it consistently better than Harry? No, I don't think any manager would. Because of all the different factors that can affect a final league placing - luck - it's important to be roughly in the right ball park when it comes to your finishing positions. If we say Harry has been consistent top 5 and majority top 4, someone will need to be consistent top 4 and majority top 3/top2 to improve on that. I'm talking over a number of years, not just one great season and then slipping back down again. Over a number of years, I don't think anyone would see us improve on the finishing positions Harry has gotten us. Bare in mind this means finishing above one of Chelsea, Emirates Marketing Project or Man United on a yearly basis, with all their money. We may do it on the odd one, but right now, realistically, we can only ask to be finshing somewhere between 3rd and 6th.

It's about where we finish over a number of years, because too many factors can affect the odd league placing. Harry is doing a great job in that regard. Absolutely no point in risking that for someone that may maintain the good work, but may also fail to settle (because even proven managers fail at clubs) and send us back down below where we should be. I wouldn't count one season of 3rd place as improving what Harry has done here, I'd count it as improvement if it was 2 out of 3 seasons finishing 3rd but never out of the top 4 on the other. Can anyone really see us realistically doing that, with the league as competitive as it is?

 

[Jordinho]

Can't agree that Redknapp had a shady record. He's done fairly well given the clubs he's been at. West Ham were consistenly in the top half under him, Portsmouth won the Division One title and he kept them up. The subsequent financial meltdowns were down to the insane wages someone else thought it approriate to offer players. Ten years at Bournemouth, ten at West Ham (7 as manager) and 6 at Portsmouth.

What other managers in this league were even close when he came to us if you exlude SKY 4 managers?

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

One of many examples, no doubt.

I simply fail to see the logic in conclusively stating we cannot and will not find a better manager than Arry should he leave. fudging hell, that's ridiculous!

This btw is a completely different argument to him leaving or not - just for clarity's sake

Redknapp is a manager of vast experience with average players and bottom end teams. He had NO experience at this level whatsoever. I think its fair to say since he joined he has far exceeded all expectation of him.

To be clear, Redknapp didnt join us with a record comparible to Hiddink, Capello, Mourinho...

And yet people mention managers like Rodgers, Martinez and Lambert as potential successors and are shouted down as naive and unrealistic because these managers dont have experience at this level!

There are things all three managers do I believe better than Redknapp. I think they each have a great deal of potential, and already show worthy qualities. If we took one on I would be excited at the prospect.

Amazing how quickly people forget.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Can't agree that Redknapp had a shady record. He's done fairly well given the clubs he's been at. West Ham were consistenly in the top half under him, Portsmouth won the Division One title and he kept them up. The subsequent financial meltdowns were down to the insane wages someone else thought it approriate to offer players. Ten years at Bournemouth, ten at West Ham (7 as manager) and 6 at Portsmouth.

What other managers in this league were even close when he came to us if you exlude SKY 4 managers?

There is of course the standard response of "Why did it take 30+ years and a desperate Daniel Levy for Redknapp to get a big club opportunity? Especially if he was so good?"

 

[glorygloryeze]

http://www.glory-glory.co.uk/showth...ussion-allowed&p=120239&viewfull=1#post120239

:?:

Am I the only one wondering about this bit of 'ITK' and whether it is true or not??

 

[Pirate55]

To be fair, his record in crucial must-win games was what got us into the Champions League last season. And than helped us to finish top of our group, beat AC Milan 1-0 away from home and then hold them at home to get to the next round. It's been worse this season and in the league last season though, I agree.

With regard to belief, isn't that was Harry's all about? Telling the players that 'no-one can live with them'? Belief has played a big part in transforming us into a team that's finished 4th twice in 3 years.

Still, I can understand that people get annoyed with what seems like nonchalance and a lack of ambition in his interviews.

Crucial games

man u in league cup final - lost
portsmouth - facup semifinal - lost
chelski - facupsemifinal - lost
Emirates Marketing Project a - win
Emirates Marketing Project a - lost
arse a - lost
norwich h - lost
aston villa a - drew

These are the crucial game imo. The outcome fundamentally affected our seasons

When the going gets tough, Harry is found sadly wanting.

 

[ArcspacE]

Can't agree that Redknapp had a shady record. He's done fairly well given the clubs he's been at. West Ham were consistenly in the top half under him, Portsmouth won the Division One title and he kept them up. The subsequent financial meltdowns were down to the insane wages someone else thought it approriate to offer players. Ten years at Bournemouth, ten at West Ham (7 as manager) and 6 at Portsmouth.

What other managers in this league were even close when he came to us if you exlude SKY 4 managers?

So that would be fairly well with bottom end teams? Sounds a lot like Rodgers, Martinez, Lambert, etc.

The point I'm trying to make is - when Redknapp came to us he was absolutely conclusivelly factually no better on paper (bar the FA Cup) than Rodgers, Martinez, Lambert at this current time. Yet the bizarre logic is pedalled around here daily to a mass-propagandistic level than if those managers were to be given a shot they will absolutely concluisivelly factually do worse than Arry.

Do you see the absurdity in the above scenario and border-line hypocrisy?

Simple question follows: Why and how?

I'm not suggesting those should be considered per se - simply looking to understand this particular mode of reasoning

 

[Lost Mango]

But the success at places such as Portsmouth were due to having better players on insane wages that his rivals couldn't afford.

As was his FA Cup win.

He had a win % of 39% or something at Bournemouth and not stunning at West Ham.

he is a decent manager but how much of his success at tottenham is because he has inherited and bought a top4/5 squad and how much to his ability?

Klopp is a great example ..... poor results at Mainz, some one took at punt on him and gave him a very good squad at Dortmund and the sun suddenly shines. Is he the next Messiah or just in the right place at the right time?

 

[Jordinho]

There is of course the standard response of "Why did it take 30+ years and a desperate Daniel Levy for Redknapp to get a big club opportunity? Especially if he was so good?"

He did turn down Saudi Sportswashing Machine after Allardyce was sacked and Levy had been interested in him for some time, but it hadn't worked out earlier.

Graham, Gross and Santini came with league winning experience, none of them did too well.

Our two best managers since Venables both came with one measly cup win to their name.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Crucial games

man u in league cup final - lost
portsmouth - facup semifinal - lost
chelski - facupsemifinal - lost
Emirates Marketing Project a - win
Emirates Marketing Project a - lost
arse a - lost
norwich h - lost
aston villa a - drew

These are the crucial game imo. The outcome fundamentally affected our seasons

When the going gets tough, Harry is found sadly wanting.

Lost on penalties.
Dominated the game and got sucker punched.
Given a ghost goal against us.
Won.
Could have so easily been a win had we scored with Bale's cross to Defoe, not in Redknapp's control.
Arsenal away - poor performance. It happens.
Norwich at home. Similar poor performance. Not as if Norwich haven't shocked a few teams this season - they should have got at least a point at Old Trafford too.
Villa - they score from their only actual chance, a 30 yard deflected shot and we dominate the game even with ten men.

So many factoes affect results. It isn't all just down to the manager. In the season we got 4th we also beat Arsenal and Chelsea which put us in pole position for the CL...conveniently leave those off your list.

 

[ArcspacE]

But the success at places such as Portsmouth were due to having better players on insane wages that his rivals couldn't afford.

As was his FA Cup win.

He had a win % of 39% or something at Bournemouth and not stunning at West Ham.

he is a decent manager but how much of his success at tottenham is because he has inherited and bought a top4/5 squad and how much to his ability?

Klopp is a great example ..... poor results at Mainz, some one took at punt on him and gave him a very good squad at Dortmund and the sun suddenly shines. Is he the next Messiah or just in the right place at the right time?

Exactly - crucial point so often ignored for obvious reasons and all blame for the financial trouble in both clubs he left is attributed solely to the charimen.

Simirarly how our transfer impotence in recent transfer windows is all down to Levy. :lol:

You couldn't make it up

 

[Enter the Pitbull]

Clearly the manager is never culpable for any losses then!

 

[Jordinho]

So that would be fairly well with bottom end teams? Sounds a lot like Rodgers, Martinez, Lambert, etc.

The point I'm trying to make is - when Redknapp came to us he was absolutely conclusivelly factually no better on paper (bar the FA Cup) than Rodgers, Martinez, Lambert at this current time. Yet the bizarre logic is pedalled around here daily to a mass-propagandistic level than if those managers were to be given a shot they will absolutely concluisivelly factually do worse than Arry.

Do you see the absurdity in the above scenario and border-line hypocrisy?

Simple question follows: Why and how?

I'm not suggesting those should be considered per se - simply looking to understand this particular mode of reasoning

For the record: I'm not in either the 'Must stay' or 'Must go' camps.

Redknapp had proved himself over some time. Given the right material he would achieve. The squad he inherited were better than the ones he had at both West Ham and Portsmouth, but the main issue at the time was to avoid relegation and he was the perfect choice to get the players performing again. I was delighted we got him then.

The current flavours of the month have a total of 5 years experience in the Premier League. I haven't studied either of them closely enough to make any claims over whether any of them are ready to make the step up, but I doubt we'll be fighting for top 4 the first season. The safest option is to stick with Redknapp for another season unless we have a candidate that the board is 100% certain can do better.

 

[a spur from swansea]

I fuly agree with this sentiment Steff. Harry seems to appear to be happy to settle for second best. He is not a winner. His record in crucial "must win" games is abysmal. He is content to be "up there" and thinks this is the best we can hope for. Well I for one want the very best for the club. To be winners, to win cups, to qualify for the CL on a regular basis. I feel we should strive to be the best. Some are happy with mediocrity - attractive football mediocrity but mediocrity nevertheless. That is fine, that is their choice.

I am heartily sick of jibes from scum such as "bottlers", "wimps", "failures", "mind the gap" etc etc. Will we do any better under HR, I doubt it. Will we be consigned to being "nearly men", I suspect so. For me that is not enough. I want us to win things. I dont think Harry will inspire us to win things. After the last two season collapses, I too have lost faith in him to deliver. We have a very talented squad of players, with one or two additions and a real belief, we could achieve great things. To dare is to do. We must dare to believe. Harry patently doesnt believe and he doesnt inspire others to either. We must be led by a winner.

In my opinion

Thanks for your opinion but shouldn't it be based on some hard core facts..........not a winner......when they england job came up i would say 90% of the press wanted him to become the manager plus a few of the top end players like rooney and gerrard wanted him too,..........must win games.......first game in charge drawing with the goons 4-4 after being 4-2 down in the last five minutes,beating liverpool next...........beating chelsea,goons and Emirates Marketing Project in the last few games to get the champs league place.............beating ac milan in san siro.................name calling........ if you can't take a bit finger pointing well follow another sport because thats part and parcel of being a football fan,poor dab...........adding to the squad,we are at the moment............we all like to see a player like hazzard coming here,but anyone with any sense see he wouldn't have come here even if we got champs league.........?ú25 mill transfer fee,?ú100 grand+,a week,we can't afford him simply as,so i can't see a different manager will make any difference in trying to get sum of these new superstars in.

Yeah we 're all tinkled off what happened this season.........harrys fault a bit perhaps but the players should take most of the blame,the game where we lost it i think was chelsea away,we had two/three not chances but open goals and we fecked it up,if we beaten them then it would have killed their season their and then but it gave them a lifeline to hold onto for another few weeks especially where de matteo had just taken over and a few results were going for him.

I'm not sure how old you are mate but with age you gain experience and be a bit more rounded and so I can't understand how you can't see that where we are now compared to ten years ago for instance we are in a much much stronger position and you got to say harry and his backroom staff have turned the club around,if getting into the champs league is the holy grail,well he has hasn't he.

People bang on every time on this thread for harry to go..............so who is this messiah then............the winner,everyone keeps talking about..........please name him...........We've had managers in the past whove started to do something......burkinshaw,venables,pleat and jol and replaced them because for various reasons,didn't fit a particular picture so lets not go down that route again.........

 

[ArcspacE]

Clearly the manager is never culpable for any losses then!

Here's how it works


- Team does well - all manger's plaudits - triffic guy, best in 250 years statistically

- Team collapses and enters relegation form for 10 weeks - blame players, FA, pitch, weather, sponsors, Arsenal, Roger Federrer, etc.

- Poor transfer window - tight-fisted snake-eyed chariman fudged it all up. Gave poor manager no spare change.

- Successful transfer window - masterstroke of a genius manager spotted a oldie-but-a-goodie bargain

- Wage bill doubles during said manager's tenure in a single season - buffoon chairman signed ridiculous contracts and messed up all bonus payments. Nothing to do with poor manager - he knows nuffink!