• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Racism in football

There was very little outcry when Russian teams were banned. The duplicity is nuts.
It's also become another situation where facts seem to have left the room and people are using it as a to political point score.

Their fans have gone round Europe abusing Arabs

The Midlands is a hot bed for Muslim community

Banning fans for not making locals feel uncomfortable née unsafe in their own city is hardly the scandalous decision people are making out.

Common sense has left the room because again, people are picking sides in some kind of religion battle when it reality we need to stop any kind of this current abuse, islamaphobic, anti semitic and everything else that comes with societies current favourite pastime which seems to be acting like a cnut
 
No, they have been “banned” because the police don’t think they will be safe.

There was some poor behaviour by their fans in Amsterdam, but I believe many more Ajax fans were arrested than Tel Aviv fans.

If the police feel Tel Aviv fans won’t be safe, surely it’s logical that the Villa fans should be banned too, and the game be played behind closed doors at a neutral venue.

If a persons safety on the UK streets is determined by where they were born, that’s a damning indictment on us.

love the way you underplay it to minimise the context (vandalism and shouting "death to all arabs" I believe it was which led to a response from the locals) and could the fact more Ajax fans were arrested be due to the fact, err, there are probably significantly more of them in their home area?

I assume all Maccabi fans are banned even ones born outside of Israel? Isn't this another case of people deliberately conflating issues with Israel and antisemitism rather than the actual situation?
 
It's also become another situation where facts seem to have left the room and people are using it as a to political point score.

Their fans have gone round Europe abusing Arabs

The Midlands is a hot bed for Muslim community

Banning fans for not making locals feel uncomfortable née unsafe in their own city is hardly the scandalous decision people are making out.

Common sense has left the room because again, people are picking sides in some kind of religion battle when it reality we need to stop any kind of this current abuse, islamaphobic, anti semitic and everything else that comes with societies current favourite pastime which seems to be acting like a cnut
So we just ignore the fact that the MP that started the petition stated that Israeli sports teams should not be allowed to participate in international competitions? Equally, do we ignore the Muslim scholars openly calling for the community to show no mercy to visiting Maccabi Tel Aviv fans? This is antisemitism and the authorities caved in to it. I get why the SAG would recommend the action, I used to sit on one for a Premier League team so I know their approach, but the Police and the Council should have shown some balls and stood firmly against it.
 
So we just ignore the fact that the MP that started the petition stated that Israeli sports teams should not be allowed to participate in international competitions? Equally, do we ignore the Muslim scholars openly calling for the community to show no mercy to visiting Maccabi Tel Aviv fans? This is antisemitism and the authorities caved in to it. I get why the SAG would recommend the action, I used to sit on one for a Premier League team so I know their approach, but the Police and the Council should have shown some balls and stood firmly against it.
No all of that feeds into the right decision being made

You are making the mistake of thinking I'm siding with the MPs and scholars, I'm not.

But there are innocent Jews and Muslims in this country, like me and Lutons whose lives are made harder because of MPs, TR, Football fans and protestors who have no middle ground and want to pick sides that suit their prejudice.

I'm Switzerland mate, I don't want any of it, on either sides. So fck them both, MPs using political and religious point scoring and any football fan that sings "fudge Arabs"

I thought we would be better at this stuff having had Chelsea fans hissing at away games etc.....how wrong am I
 
love the way you underplay it to minimise the context (vandalism and shouting "death to all arabs" I believe it was which led to a response from the locals) and could the fact more Ajax fans were arrested be due to the fact, err, there are probably significantly more of them in their home area?

I assume all Maccabi fans are banned even ones born outside of Israel? Isn't this another case of people deliberately conflating issues with Israel and antisemitism rather than the actual situation?

As I read it, the abuse from the Ajax fans/locals came first.

We shouldn't assume them guilty of a crime they have not committed here yet.
 
As I read it, the abuse from the Ajax fans/locals came first.

We shouldn't assume them guilty of a crime they have not committed here yet.

That was the initial media output but it was challenged and then corrected as it was the Tel Aviv fans starting it.

We shouldn't assume guilt but then we do in lots of situations - English football got banned for however long because of assumed guilt going forward.
 
Anti-semitism has been a massive issue for a long time. That is a fact. So has anti-Indian, anti-Pakistani, and anti-Asian. Also a fact.

You're in your late 60s and never witnessed any great racism outside of name-calling.
My Dad was racially abused at football numerous times; in the end he was forced to deck someone because they threatened him with physical violence. I saw Chelsea and West Ham NF attack black Spurs who were (it has to be said) ready for the fight because they knew it was coming. If you went a lot in the late 70s and early '80s, then you absolutely saw racism in the form of fighting and extreme abuse at football - unless you chose not to for whatever reason. Surely you remember what Chelsea was like when Ken Bates was running it? Christ, he wanted to electrify the fencing around the stands! You remember what Paul Cannoville suffered? Do you remember the abuse Chris Hughton, Garth Crooks, Ossie Ardiles and Ricky Villa got? Some of the times I had to run the fastest was because of NF West Ham attacking. I was a young teenager there for the game not the ruck. But it was always bubbling, especially going away, and the likes of Tyndall and Webster saw their opportunities to infiltrate certain clubs.

There's always the possibility that you think none of what I have outlined (factually - I was there and saw it) is nothing much, but I absolutely won't pass that judgement on you personally as I don't know you and would prefer to believe that like pretty mcuh anyone here, you find (and indeed found) such behavior vile.

Spot on pal and especially the bolded bit, it was a like war zone traveling away in the 70s 80s and it happened just like you say it did. Like you i was there to see and hear it and it was far worse then it is now. I remember one occasion when i was was really worried, It was as midweek game away against Burnley where i travelled up alone with a girl i had just started seeing.

After the game we were walking back to where i had left the car and we were on our own when a group of Burnley fans came around the corner [ there was around a dozen or so] and we both has Spurs scarfs on and as soon as they saw us they started the abuse. Now I was not that concerned but i said to the girl i was with to turn round and run and look for a policeman. She did and they seemed more concerned on me that bothering about chasing her.

They were younger then me [ mostly young teenagers] so thought i would hit the biggest and then run like fudge. I did and knew i was probaby going to get the brick knocked out of but thankfully my girl managed to get a couple of cops and they came around the corner just as i was about to run.

Never been so glad in my life to see coppers:).
 
Spot on pal and especially the bolded bit, it was a like war zone traveling away in the 70s 80s and it happened just like you say it did. Like you i was there to see and hear it and it was far worse then it is now. I remember one occasion when i was was really worried, It was as midweek game away against Burnley where i travelled up alone with a girl i had just started seeing.

After the game we were walking back to where i had left the car and we were on our own when a group of Burnley fans came around the corner [ there was around a dozen or so] and we both has Spurs scarfs on and as soon as they saw us they started the abuse. Now I was not that concerned but i said to the girl i was with to turn round and run and look for a policeman. She did and they seemed more concerned on me that bothering about chasing her.

They were younger then me [ mostly young teenagers] so thought i would hit the biggest and then run like fudge. I did and knew i was probaby going to get the brick knocked out of but thankfully my girl managed to get a couple of cops and they came around the corner just as i was about to run.

Never been so glad in my life to see coppers:).

First off, great decision on your part at Burnley that night and I can only imagine the relief at seeing those coppers.
It was strange when I went with my Dad (I ended up going solo a lot of the time simply because he encountered too much in the end to make him feel OK with going - in that sense I was fortunate he felt OK letting me go, albeit he taught me some invaluable things with regards to dealing with flashpoint moments without getting sucked in). Most of the time, people would call him p**i this and p**i that when he was actually Iranian; one for the braintrustees there! When he eventually lamped an aggressor, it was because he felt he was going to get attacked.

I had several close shaves at West Ham and Chelsea (I've mentioned the coat slashing thing here before), but the one that had me moving like Linford Christie was after a game in 81/82 at Villa. We lost 4-0, and as we got to the Bullring after the match, a group of 6 or 7 Villa came flying at us in one of the bullring walkways (as I remember it was like underground tunnels) waving a variety of objects from chunks of wood to umbrellas with which they clearly intended to do woodwork on us! As I sprinted towards New Street and the platform of our train home, I realised my mate had started to duck into a toilet; I had to double back, grab him nby the collar and drag him with me to avoid this lurching lumbering gaggle (to me they were fudging terrifying as I was in no doubt they'd have hospitalized us)...all I can say is the first time I remember stopping running was when the train whislted through Peterborough and my 'fight/flight' registered that the moment had long passed hahahahaha. Funny now, but not then!

Footnote: the following season, I made sure to go again as I wanted to make sure in my youthful way that I let the Villa fans know exactly what I thought of them. I made sure to stand near the back of the terracing just below those boxes (remember they used to put us behind the goal) and I was in one of the corners. There I was, looking up at the Villa fans above those boxes, offering all sorts of foul mouthed invective and sign language, y'know, really 'giving it the big 'un'. Suddenly, a steward tapped me on the shoulder and said, "Would you please refrain from using such foul language and gestures towards the family section!" Everyone around me burst into laughter, I went bright red, and dutifully accepted my 'prat' hat!!!!!

I have to say again, thank you for underscoring my observations, I know you were there home and away (I'd wager even more than I was TBF) but yes, loads of miles put in and when veryoldspur said he'd 'never seen much' I just thought 'WALOB'!!!!

p.s. Many many years later, 2002, at the Lane, I was happy that I was able to intervene on behalf of a very scared-looking Aston Villa supporter and his young son after a game when they were being verbally abused at close range by some 'lads'. The fudging idiots in question quickly disappeared when I suggested they do a 5 min walk back up the High Road to meet a group of Villa who had left the stadium a little later.
 
I’m younger than you guys, never had any bother with opposition fans.

A remarkable job has been done in the last 30+ years on that front.

Ironically, my only dangerous moments were with other Spurs fans, coked up and embarrassing themselves, who took exception to my advice to fudge off home.
 
Back