Quacks & Pseudoscience

[scaramanga]

Why do you need to convince me that I am wrong?

It would reduce the amount of wrong stuff being said by a measure of 1 person for a start......

The refusal of the medical establishment to accept any challenge on vaccines is worrying. The CDC recommends over a 100 shots of vaccine for an american kid by the time they 18.

That's not a refusal to accept, it's because there simply hasn't been an accurate and reasoned challenge to the method of vaccination

They are over 400 more vaccines in development. Why? If you get a vaccine on the CDC recommended list it worth $50 billion over its life.

The people that make those vaccines are not the ones who buy them. If there were no buyers, there would be no vaccine producers.

Every single one of those is safe?

That depends on your judgement of the word safe. Going by a dictionary definition "not likely to cause or lead to harm or injury" then yes, they are.

Every one is necessary?

Yes, absolutely necessary. Every one of them has a very strong case - mainly because it fights an infectious disease that we don't want our kids to contract.

There are no side effects of these?

Nobody has claimed there aren't side effects - the side effects are clearly marked and published on the NHS (and other national equivalent) websites.

We shouldn't question what is going on here?

You can question all you want, but when those questions are answered with logic, expert opinion and sound reasoning, you should probably stop.

We shouldn't question why autism rate have increased 20,000% in 50 years?

Do you have any evidence of this? I mean real evidence, not hearsay or conjecture.

The rate is increasing in 20 years 1 in 4 kids will be autistic

Well that's a silly projection don't you think?

Here's another one for you - if you continue the current trend of iPhone sales (ignoring a blip this quarter) then in 20 years everyone on the planet will own 16 iPhones.

The tide is turning against the type of blind faith in Big Pharma that we see from so many of the internet warriors.

I tried to dig my way through the stupid but I started drowning in it.

See the film, even if you don't agree with. It raises important issues and I would say the arguments are compelling.

That's the problem with this kind of flimflam - the arguments are compelling because it's art and doesn't have to be accurate. For that reason the film makers can just make brick up (as they do throughout the whole film) and don't need to provide proper evidence. Those of us that believe in science hold ourselves to a higher standard.

The film is doing very well in the America

If you're trying to tell me that there are a lot of stupid people out there, you won't get any argument from me.

(despite Big Pharma threatening to withdraw advertising to cinemas that showed it - why would they do that in the land of free speech?).

Did they? How many "Big Pharma" ads have you ever seen at a cinema? I can honestly say I don't think I've seen one ever.

Fortunately Amazon is big enough to resist such bullying tactics and Vaxxed the movie sits at the top of their charts and with great reviews (which gives me much pleasure)

Again, the world is full of stupid people. Please try your best not to be one of them - you owe it to society.

 

[Craig_J]

Why do you need to convince me that I am wrong? I would never try and stop your pumping your kids full of all these vaccines. If you want to do that - knock yourself out. You believe they are risk free. I happen to think they are very risky and I just don't want to be part of it. And I don't want my kids to be part of it.

The refusal of the medical establishment to accept any challenge on vaccines is worrying. The CDC recommends over a 100 shots of vaccine for an american kid by the time they 18.

They are over 400 more vaccines in development. Why? If you get a vaccine on the CDC recommended list it worth $50 billion over its life. As Scara proudly says the imperative for big pharma is returning profits for their shareholders - not our best interests.

Every single one of those vaccines is safe? Every one is necessary? There are no side effects of any these? It is worth the risk? We shouldn't question what is going on here? We shouldn't question why autism rates have increased 20,000% in 50 years? The rate is increasing so fast that in 20 years 1 in 4 kids will be autistic if nothing changes.

The tide is turning against the type of blind faith in Big Pharma that we see from so many of the internet warriors. They are now millions of people questions their role in this catastrophe.

See the film, even if you don't agree with. It raises important issues and I would say the arguments are compelling.

The film is doing very well in the America (despite Big Pharma threatening to withdraw advertising to cinemas that showed it - why would they do that in the land of free speech?). Fortunately Amazon is big enough to resist such bullying tactics and Vaxxed the movie sits at the top of their charts and with great reviews (which gives me much pleasure)

View attachment 2891

I assume 'Weiner' is from your personal collection?

 

[scaramanga]

@JPBB - I'm about to link to a website which I hope you will use to consider your position on vaccination carefully.

I'm not exaggerating when I say the link between each pair of measurements on each of these graphs is every bit as strong as the one between vaccines and autism:

http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

 

[milo]

Why do you need to convince me that I am wrong? I would never try and stop your pumping your kids full of all these vaccines. If you want to do that - knock yourself out. You believe they are risk free. I happen to think they are very risky and I just don't want to be part of it. And I don't want my kids to be part of it.

I don't believe that they are risk free, I believe that the benefits outweigh the risks. The diseases that vaccines protect against are killers and reduced vaccination rates mean that people who do not have the choice whether to vaccinate or not, because of known allergic reactions or other complications, are put at risk by people who cannot interpret evidence or understand risk.

 

[milo]

@JPBB - I'm about to link to a website which I hope you will use to consider your position on vaccination carefully.

I'm not exaggerating when I say the link between each pair of measurements on each of these graphs is every bit as strong as the one between vaccines and autism:

http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

One of my favourites is the increase in type 2 diabetes and wearing synthetic soled shoes. Ergo diabetes is caused by interrupting the earth's magnetic field.

 

[Seedy Ron]

Ergo diabetes is caused by interrupting the earth's magnetic field.

If Gifter was still with us, which apparently he is in spirit, he'd be fully on board with that hypothesis.

 

[JPBB]

I don't believe that they are risk free, I believe that the benefits outweigh the risks. The diseases that vaccines protect against are killers and reduced vaccination rates mean that people who do not have the choice whether to vaccinate or not, because of known allergic reactions or other complications, are put at risk by people who cannot interpret evidence or understand risk.

Yes, I have spoken to hundreds, maybe over a thousand, parents who had exactly the same view. Now they have a vaccine damaged kid. The kids life is destroyed. Their life is destroyed.

They have to put up with "scientists" comparing their situation to the people wearing synthetic shoes. it makes them angry and sad.

 

[gifter_redux]

Just logged in to see if there was a discussion on the diet vs statins paper in the news?

Wasn't that the exact argument I had on here with that Qwack JTS1882 about 4years ago?!

 

[gifter_redux]

My own experience is that vaccines do not work.

Take Polio, the year after vaccinations begun the classification for Polio was changed, almost the entire drop seen statistically is actually where previously a broad range of symptoms was now moved to 'Meningitis', then 'Physical Meningitis', now there are countless, chiefly the medically indestinguishable 'Non-Polio Acute Flaccid Paralysis' (which the Indian health minister spoke out about after the WHO, or some crony body, declared the OPV a complete success, he relayed that the truth was now that they have exactly the same number of cases of the more damaging 'non-polio acute flaccid paralysis' meaning they spent Millions making the sufferers even more unwell).

Very sorry most people do not have the critical thought capacity to see these things until they or their family are damaged by treatments, or are just not willing to accept capitalism leads to these issues if we let Pharma fund and dictate health policy.

My 3.5year old daughter has never met her Doctor, she has had only 1 dose of Calpol (utterly against my wishes, and not needed as her mother agreed upon reflection), because I know that you must focus on nutrition if you are not vaccinating you children IMO (well everyone should due to soil depletion, but that's too much for this puny thread).

Strange that knowing our refusal to vaccinate, I was invited to give a neonatal talk by the NHS, because of how remarkably well my daughter has done.

Be Well.

 

[gifter_redux]

Goodbye!

 

[JPBB]

The people that make those vaccines are not the ones who buy them. If there were no buyers, there would be no vaccine producers.

For me this is the crux of the matter.

Pharma do not give a brick if a vaccine is needed, or is good, bad or indifferent. If it goes wrong they can't be sued, the Government indemnifies them. It's a great gig.

As Scara so rightly points out, they only care about selling it to a terrified junior health minister. It is pretty easy to do because they are backed up by the many scientists who rely on Pharma for their jobs. Understandable, they need their funding to pay the mortgage and they have seen what they do to people who dare to challenge them (see Wakefield)

Meanwhile autism rates are going through the roof and people suffer. Who cares? Certainly not Scara and big pharma. They simply deny it. Or make facetious arguments. Or quite simply dismisses us as stupid because we don't have a white coat.

But I am standing up. And so are many millions of others. Big Pharma don't like it. And I am not reliant on their funding. So they get to me, by persuading states to withdraw schooling, health, housing, even my freedom if I do not vaccinate my kids. (see California).

What worries me is this type of forced medication reminds me of a fascist state.

 

[scaramanga]

Yes, I have spoken to hundreds, maybe over a thousand, parents who had exactly the same view.

What are their medical qualifications?

Now they have a vaccine damaged kid. The kids life is destroyed. Their life is destroyed.

What is "vaccine-damaged"? You'll need to be way more specific than that if you don't want to sound like a quack.

They have to put up with "scientists" comparing their situation to the people wearing synthetic shoes.

Only if they believe silly nonsense about autism and vaccines. They're not in the analogy if they're able to think properly.

it makes them angry and sad.

What does that have to do with the efficacy or risk of medicine?

 

[scaramanga]

For me this is the crux of the matter.

Pharma do not give a brick if a vaccine is needed, or is good, bad or indifferent. If it goes wrong they can't be sued, the Government indemnifies them. It's a great gig.

As Scara so rightly points out, they only care about selling it to a terrified junior health minister. It is pretty easy to do because they are backed up by the many scientists who rely on Pharma for their jobs. Understandable, they need their funding to pay the mortgage and they have seen what they do to people who dare to challenge them (see Wakefield)

Meanwhile autism rates are going through the roof and people suffer. Who cares? Certainly not Scara and big pharma. They simply deny it. Or make facetious arguments. Or quite simply dismisses us as stupid because we don't have a white coat.

But I am standing up. And so are many millions of others. Big Pharma don't like it. And I am not reliant on their funding. So they get to me, by persuading states to withdraw schooling, health, housing, even my freedom if I not vaccinate my kids. (see California).

What worries me, is this type of forced medication reminds me of a fascist state.

You tell us you've spoken to many parents who have suffered due to vaccination, have you spoken to any Refrigerator Mothers?

If not, why not? Don't you want the full story on ruined lives?

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Yes, I have spoken to hundreds, maybe over a thousand, parents who had exactly the same view. Now they have a vaccine damaged kid. The kids life is destroyed. Their life is destroyed.

They have to put up with "scientists" comparing their situation to the people wearing synthetic shoes. it makes them angry and sad.

You keep talking about vaccine damaged kids. I ask again, How have the parents proven that whatever problem they have was directly caused by the vaccine? secondly, are you talking specifically about autism here or are you talking about any form of 'damage'?

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

For me this is the crux of the matter.

Pharma do not give a brick if a vaccine is needed, or is good, bad or indifferent. If it goes wrong they can't be sued, the Government indemnifies them. It's a great gig..

In the EU every single medicine released for commercial use on the market has to be released by a QP (Qualified Person). Their job is to review the testing completed on the medicine to ensure that it is fit for purpose. QP's are legally bound to this responsibility which means that if 'it all goes wrong' they will be legally investigated and if found to be negligent or worse purposefully releasing dangerous drugs they will go to jail. So even if the Pharma company does not care (they do, there's nothing worse for business than making a drug that kills people), the QP should do.

This is the problem. People like you make incorrect sweeping statements to the general public who don't know any better and pick up on them.

As Scara so rightly points out, they only care about selling it to a terrified junior health minister. It is pretty easy to do because they are backed up by the many scientists who rely on Pharma for their jobs. Understandable, they need their funding to pay the mortgage and they have seen what they do to people who dare to challenge them (see Wakefield)

Meanwhile autism rates are going through the roof and people suffer. Who cares? Certainly not Scara and big pharma. They simply deny it. Or make facetious arguments. Or quite simply dismisses us as stupid because we don't have a white coat..

No one is denying that the autism rates are increasing. They are denying that the increase in autism is anything to do with vaccinations, this has been shown to be true by a large number of clinical studies. To date there is yet to be a single study that has shown any correlation between autism and vaccinations.

Trust me, if there was a link shown between vaccinations and autism, Pharma companies would find a way to make money out of that anyway. If there was a mechanism that the MMR or any other vaccine caused autism they would pump millions of pounds into creating the very first MMR vaccine proven to not cause autism. But the bottom line is that there is no scientific link.

But I am standing up. And so are many millions of others. Big Pharma don't like it. And I am not reliant on their funding. So they get to me, by persuading states to withdraw schooling, health, housing, even my freedom if I do not vaccinate my kids. (see California).

What worries me is this type of forced medication reminds me of a fascist state.

Not vaccinating your children puts your own children and other children at risk. If people had your attitude in the 50s we'd all be dead by now.

 

[JPBB]

What are their medical qualifications?

Some have medical qualifications. Most don't. Vaccines are indiscriminate in who they damage.

What is "vaccine-damaged"? You'll need to be way more specific than that if you don't want to sound like a quack.

Mostly neurological issues. Autism is the most prevalent. But meningitis is very common too. As is measles. They have the measles vaccine then get measles. Doesn't seem worth it.

What does that have to do with the efficacy or risk of medicine?

Your response is typical of how medicine treats vaccine damage. They don't care. They don't listen.

You tell us you've spoken to many parents who have suffered due to vaccination, have you spoken to any Refrigerator Mothers?

I think what you are suggesting is that the people that I have spoken to made their children autistic by not showing them enough love. That is very offensive. And typical of how the medical industry try to deflect attention away from vaccination damage.

 

[JPBB]

Strange that knowing our refusal to vaccinate, I was invited to give a neonatal talk by the NHS, because of how remarkably well my daughter has done.

What? You are not a doctor. And you don't even have a white coat.

 

[scaramanga]

Some have medical qualifications. Most don't. Vaccines are indiscriminate in who they damage.

Let's ignore those without medical qualifications for now - listening to them would be even more ridiculous than the discussion we're already having.

How does the sum total of epidemiological knowledge/experience compare between the handful of trained people you've met and the thousands of experts who tell us there is no link.

And when you say medical training, what exactly do you mean? Are we talking fully qualified physicians here or homeopaths?

Mostly neurological issues. Autism is the most prevalent. But meningitis is very common too. As is measles. They have the measles vaccine then get measles. Doesn't seem worth it.

How common is very common? One in 14,000? More?

Your response is typical of how medicine treats vaccine damage. They don't care. They don't listen.

If you stop talking nonsense, people will start to listen.

I think what you are suggesting is that the people that I have spoken to made their children autistic by not showing them enough love. That is very offensive. And typical of how the medical industry try to deflect attention away from vaccination damage.

Far from it. What I'm pointing out is that for decades, because of one person's flawed analysis, people believed that autism was caused by a lack of love and connection from mothers.

It has since been shown to be nonsense, yet the reasoning and links were at least as strong as the ones you are suggesting are real. So if you're talking to one group who wrongly think they know better than the entire weight of medical opinion and evidence, you should really be talking to both.

 

[JPBB]

Let's ignore those without medical qualifications for now - listening to them would be even more ridiculous than the discussion we're already having.

Your refusal to accept that anyone without a medical qualification can have a valid opinion leaves me saddened.

I hope that you or your family are never touched by vaccine damage.

But I am afraid such is its prevalence that the likelihood is that you will, either in this generation or the next.

GHod help you if you are. It is a living hell.

Goodbye. i am off to find another Spurs forum.

 

[scaramanga]

Your refusal to accept that anyone without a medical qualification can have a valid opinion leaves me saddened.

Why would I listen to anyone else for medical advice?

Do you ask your accountant to fix your plumbing? Or your mechanic to cut your lawn?

I hope that you or your family are never touched by vaccine damage.

But I am afraid such is its prevalence that the likelihood is that you will, either in this generation or the next.

My son's had his vaccines thanks as I am a responsible parent, and (as is the case with the overwhelming majority) has not suffered any consequences.

He did stub his toe and get a nasty cut yesterday though - I bet it's those Big Pharma bastards again.

GHod help you if you are. It is a living hell.

I'm sure it is - all the more reason to ensure that people have the correct information to help deal with this. Conspiracy theories and disinformation will not help.

Don't forget. The main instigator of all this flimflam is SOMEONE TRYING TO SELL YOU HIS VACCINE.

Goodbye. i am off to find another Spurs forum.

You should stick around, hopefully you'll learn something.