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Putin & Russia

Not in a “I’m being deliberately provocative to teach you all how to debate properly” way.
Hmm. Don't think I claimed to be doing that (getting people to debate properly). I claimed to be trying to provoke a reaction in those stating that they hoped Trump would die so that we could get back to "normal" to think about what they were saying and talk it through rather than just blindly follow the "Trump is bad and everything he wants is bad therefore I need to oppose everything he suggests, including trying to end the worst conflict the world has seen in over 70 years and wishing death on people is morally acceptable in the case of Trump and those i strongly opposed politically"
 
I don't think there's a reasoned argument that correctly analyses that every single one of Trump's statements and policies are wrong and (to quote one of the number of posters on this thread) the sooner Trump ends up in a box, the better. There is 100% a dangerous sheep narrative surrounding Trump, which has led to very unreasonable arguments posted by many in mainstream forums such as this one along the lines that it would be morally acceptable to at the very least to wish for an end to Trump's life due to his views and policies and this sheep rhetoric actually led to an attempt to assassinate him just a few months ago.

For context this is the quote that my "disrespectful" post aimed at "reasonably argued views" was in reply to (Grays_1890 referring to Trump and Musk):

"Sooner they all see the inside of a wooden box the sooner the rest of normal humanity can go back to getting anywhere near normality into their lives"

Additional context: these "reasonably argued" views are being exposed in context of Trump's actions in doing everything he can to end a war that has so far claimed an estimated 500K+ human lives in the space of 3 years. I.e. the implication being "wish Trump and Musk would just die so we can all get back to fighting and killing the Russians like all us normal people with morals should want to do"

Trumps a proven rapist, he has sexually abused many women, thats why the recent film that was released was failed to be shut down, thats why the likes of Kermode who made a statement as such when reviewing the film were free to do so because it was written into law that his actions met the freehold of *struggle cuddle*. He is also pathological liar and a racist, thats not a sheeps narrative there is enough of his own statements out there to show it, I don't take my prompts from what others tell me to, I listen to his own statements and make my own mind up based on a fairly broad experience of the world at 42 and having travelled and met people from every level and walk of life.

I don't have to deep dive into his politics to justify my feeling, my conscience is perfectly clear on my view, I was not making an argument, I was making a statement and I sleep perfectly well with it.

I will leave you and others to dissect the rest till your hearts content, but sooner he is dead the better the world will be as far as I am concerned and I don't choose that statement lightly
 
Trumps a proven rapist, he has sexually abused many women, thats why the recent film that was released was failed to be shut down, thats why the likes of Kermode who made a statement as such when reviewing the film were free to do so because it was written into law that his actions met the freehold of *struggle cuddle*. He is a pathological liar and a racist.

I don't have to deep dive into his politics to justify my feeling, my conscience is perfectly clear on my view, I was not making an argument, I was making a statement and I sleep perfectly well with it.

I will leave you and others to dissect the rest till your hearts content, but sooner he is dead the better the world will be as far as I am concerned and I don't choose that statement lightly

Must have missed his r.a.p.e. conviction, not going to lie...my bad, sorry. If your position is that you think capital punishment should be in place for r.a.p.e and sexual assault and whatever Musk has been convicted of (unsure on this one too, sorry) thats your view,fine. Unsure what any of that stuff has to do with whether he's right or wrong on Ukraine though
 
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Must have missed his r.a.p.e. conviction, not going to lie...my bad, sorry. Unsure what any of that stuff has to do with whether he's right or wrong on Ukraine either.

He wasn't convicted because of the New York ruling of only being convicted if using your penis to *struggle cuddle* someone, it was agreed he sexually abused Carroll by using his fingers against her will, but the jury and judge both agreed it met the threshold of what would meet the common understanding of what constitutes *struggle cuddle* which is “penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim. That's why legally he hasn't been able to counter the statements that he is in fact a rapist

The blokes a human scumbag, couldn't really care what his political cucks say about him.
 
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He wasn't convicted because of the New York ruling of only being convicted if using your penis to *struggle cuddle* someone, it was agreed he sexually abused Carroll by using his fingers against her will, but the jury and judge both agreed it met the threshold of what would meet the common understanding of what constitutes *struggle cuddle* which is “penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim. That's why legally he hasn't been able to counter the statements that he is in fact a rapist

The blokes a human scumbag, couldn't really care what his political cucks say about him.
He wasn't "convicted" as it wasn't a criminal trial, it was a civil lawsuit which carries a lower standard of evidence. I.e. they didn't have to "prove" that Trump raped her, they just had to convince a jury that on the balance of probabilities her story was more than 50% likely to be true. If you think the consequence of a civil finding of sexual assault should be death rather than damages, then fair enough.

What has Musk done to warrant the death wish out of interest?
 
Not in a “I’m being deliberately provocative to teach you all how to debate properly” way.
No i agree with you.

But i also accept that people have different views to my own. Yet if you have a different opinon to others they will accuse you of being contrain or provocative in a way of shutying down people's opinion. Which i think actually does more harm then good in the long run.
 
He wasn't "convicted" as it wasn't a criminal trial, it was a civil lawsuit which carries a lower standard of evidence. I.e. they didn't have to "prove" that Trump raped her, they just had to convince a jury that on the balance of probabilities her story was more than 50% likely to be true. If you think the consequence of a civil finding of sexual assault should be death rather than damages, then fair enough.

What has Musk done to warrant the death wish out of interest?

And taking into account his wider history of racism and sexual assault, yeh I think the world would be better when he is 6ft under.
 
Ok.....presumably you supported his actions though?
What ever happens in that respect he has coming. One of modern life's most despicable humans.

If your a fan, and believe his life of historic accusations and lawsuits and his own comments and actions are just............bad luck.........and he is a decent bloke......then you do you mate
 
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What has Musk done to warrant the death wish out of interest?
I haven't got the energy to list everything bad that Musk has done. Many things are covered here:

You will argue the death sentence is too harsh, I would say the world would be better of without people like him. Maybe we could just send him into Ukraine with a rifle and let him have a chance.
 
I haven't got the energy to list everything bad that Musk has done. Many things are covered here:

You will argue the death sentence is too harsh, I would say the world would be better of without people like him. Maybe we could just send him into Ukraine with a rifle and let him have a chance.
I'm sure you could point at any number of people based on your criteria and state that the world was better off without them. Mass culling of people that don't pass the Bullet "good person" test?
 
What ever happens in that respect he has coming. One of modern life's most despicable humans.

If your a fan, and believe his life of historic accusations and lawsuits and his own comments and actions are just............bad luck.........and he is a decent bloke......then you do you mate
Wouldn't you say there's a bit of a gap between "being a fan" and "agreeing with some of his stances, including on Ukraine" before an even bigger gap to "i wish he was dead"?
 
Wouldn't you say there's a bit of a gap between "being a fan" and "agreeing with some of his stances, including on Ukraine" before an even bigger gap to "i wish he was dead"?

I think you can step back, tack a snapshot on his life and come to a pretty reasonable conclusion that the guy is a scumbag, this might be the wrong thread for it and he might be right on Ukraine, I don't think he is, he is clearly cosying up to the side that has his b0ll0cks in a vice.......

But that aside I think anyone with the right moral compass can look at a guy like Trumps charge sheet and be generally disgusted by the human being. Hence my view that the world would be better without him.

On that note, I won't spoil this thread for those who want to discuss the nuances of Ukraine by spoiling it wishing Trump has a heart attack in the coming days. You lot enjoy yourself on that, I will step back..........enjoy
 
Thinking the world would be better off with someone dead and thinking he should be murdered are two completely different things.
Not sure they are. They're close bed-fellows in my book. As evidenced in this case by Gray's response to this lind of questioning: "he'd have had it coming" (in terms of if he was supportive of the assassination attempt)
 
I haven't got the energy to list everything bad that Musk has done. Many things are covered here:

You will argue the death sentence is too harsh, I would say the world would be better of without people like him. Maybe we could just send him into Ukraine with a rifle and let him have a chance.
I saw someone sum him up perfectly the other day. Was along the the lines of "making cuts because you have to and showing empathy to those impacted is one thing......being like Musk and basking in those decisions and celebrating the ruin of honest folks lives is the other end of the scale"

And he is spot on. That and then celebrating those decisions by posing with a chrome chainsaw makes the bloke demented.
 
Nope. All bar one of the expert witnesses have reconsidered.
2 independent panels of leading neonatal doctors have reported against the conviction.
The causes of death have been discredited (air pumped in, insulin injections) and the only 'evidence' was questionable time sheets and door access readings which were meaningless.

The unit was a brickshow and the mortality rate was exceptionally high but that was more likely to be the poor hygiene, the falling apart infrastructure and the chronically overworked, understaffed nursing and support team.

David Davis is a voice being heard on it but it doesn't sound like a conspiracy from what I have followed
I'm sorry but a lot of that isn't true. The Letby case has unfortunately been hijacked by a huge amount of noise and I'm afraid you've been bamboozled by some of it as have many:
- Not a single expert witness has reconsidered. In fact, only a single "expert witness" gave evidence at trial, Dr. Dewi Evans.
- Medical evidence of foul play was also produced by the prosecution from all senior consultants that worked on the unit with Letby, all of whom are essentially "expert witnesses", being consultant neonatologists or paediatricians, all of whom suspected foul play in the deaths that occurred and all of whom suspected Letby to be behind it (and began a long-running campaign to attempt to convince senior hospital management to remove Letby from duty and begin an investigation). None of the prosecution witnesses in respect of the medical evidence have reconsidered their opinions.
- The mortality rate was only severely high while Letby was on duty. It was normal before she started work there. When the consultants successfully petitioned to have her moved from night shifts to day shifts, the unusually high pattern of deaths moved from night to day. When Letby was removed from duty, the significantly high mortality rate dropped back to normal. Police are currently investigating the spike in deaths that occurred at the Liverpool hospital where Letby was briefly moved to. These investigations are ongoing.
- Many of those that attempt to dispute the Letby convictions tend to play the game of taking each piece of evidence and dismissing it in isolation as circumstantial or unconvincing. When the vast majority of convictions are built on weight of circumstantial evidence that on their own don't add up to much, but taken together build an overwhelming picture of guilt. In Letby's case:
- All senior doctors working with her thought she was harming babies. One of them walked in on her standing over a crashing baby doing nothing but watching it die.
- A leading paediatric/neonatal expert witness agreed with their views that foul play had caused the deaths.
- The death spikes started when she joined the unit. Moved from nights to days as her shift changed and stopped when she was removed from duties.
- Letby attempted to hide her presence at the deaths, with evidence presented that she had modified shift entries and police found over 200 shift registers at her home address that she'd stolen from the hospital.
- Letby wrote things in her diary alluding to guilt , including the "I'm evil" and "I did this" quotes.
- As is typical in serial killer cases, Letby collected "trophies" from her victims, with the police finding objects belonging to the dead babies at her home address along with copies of their medical records which she had again stolen from the hospital.
- Letby "stalked" the families of the victims, including visiting their social media profiles on the anniversary of the babies deaths and footprint analysis showed she took interest or was looking for signs of grief.
 
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