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Putin & Russia

Mikey10 said:
Not sure about the drones, but if they've got 70,000 troops around Kursk they are going to be seriously exposed in other areas along the front.
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Yes, Russia moved troops to Kursk in a massive meatwave exercise and therefore Ukraine were able to regain some other areas where Russia had removed troops.
Often these areas are just farmland and destroyed villages e.g. the headline might say 100sqkm but that is just 10km square which in a country the size of Ukraine is such a tiny blip, when you weigh up the thousands of soldiers that die to claim that land.

Both sides have thousands of drones, exploding soldiers and hardware. Morals aside, it seems like teenagers would be extremely skilled operators in that scenario, due to all their hours using Playstation and Xbox controllers. I can even imagine a future realtime-gamifield version wherein the details are filtered so the soldier/player sees a sanitised version of the hunt, rather than the true imagery.
 
I've posted before that it isn't Russian propoganda about Ukrainian nazis. And there are (since partially buried) official US, EU and UK intelligence monitoring neo nazism and paramilitarism in Ukraine and applying western sanctions against Ukrainian neo nazi paramilitary organisations operating in eastern Ukraine. Amnesty International (that famous Russian propaganda outlet) have published reports on the activities of neo nazi groups in Ukraine that have been tolerated and even supported by the Ukrainian government. I've posted information in this thread about the Wotanjugend, the Russian neo nazi organisation that was banned in Russia and fled to Ukraine and managed to set up an official HQ in Kiev and publish a Russian language version of the Christchurch manifesto safe from prosecution under the noses of the Ukrainian government.

Ukraine was the capital of European neonazism. It was the only state where actual neo nazi groups activity publishing material calling for violence and persecution of minorities were tolerated by authorities. It' was the only European state where neo nazi paramilitaries were funded and armed by the government. These are pure facts.
 
Bullet said:
Yes, Russia moved troops to Kursk in a massive meatwave exercise and therefore Ukraine were able to regain some other areas where Russia had removed troops.
Often these areas are just farmland and destroyed villages e.g. the headline might say 100sqkm but that is just 10km square which in a country the size of Ukraine is such a tiny blip, when you weigh up the thousands of soldiers that die to claim that land.

Both sides have thousands of drones, exploding soldiers and hardware. Morals aside, it seems like teenagers would be extremely skilled operators in that scenario, due to all their hours using Playstation and Xbox controllers. I can even imagine a future realtime-gamifield version wherein the details are filtered so the soldier/player sees a sanitised version of the hunt, rather than the true imagery.
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There's a really good sci-fi novel (and movie) precisely about using kids thinking they're playing a video game to fight a real life conflict with drones. It's called Ender's Game.
 
I think one thing that can't be underestimated is how Russia is using this war to push the envelope of military technology. These drone attacks used on Ukraine in Kursk are way beyond western military capability or air defences. That's because Russia has had 3 years of fighting a western-equipped opponent. The experimental missile attack last year was a message too about how Russian engineering had found a way to breach the best air defences we have to offer
They're very unlikely in a position to mass produce that missile technology at this moment in time but the strike did send shockwaves around western governments and media. It's also partly why.western governments have been reluctant to let Ukraine use western long range missiles against targets in Russian territory. It allows Russia to examine the debris and trajectory and develop defences against them. Technology advances more rapidly in war than at any other time. Russia are sharing all this intelligence with China who have built a navy in the last 3 years that is larger than all of Europe's put together.
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
I've posted before that it isn't Russian propoganda about Ukrainian nazis. And there are (since partially buried) official US, EU and UK intelligence monitoring neo nazism and paramilitarism in Ukraine and applying western sanctions against Ukrainian neo nazi paramilitary organisations operating in eastern Ukraine. Amnesty International (that famous Russian propaganda outlet) have published reports on the activities of neo nazi groups in Ukraine that have been tolerated and even supported by the Ukrainian government. I've posted information in this thread about the Wotanjugend, the Russian neo nazi organisation that was banned in Russia and fled to Ukraine and managed to set up an official HQ in Kiev and publish a Russian language version of the Christchurch manifesto safe from prosecution under the noses of the Ukrainian government.

Ukraine was the capital of European neonazism. It was the only state where actual neo nazi groups activity publishing material calling for violence and persecution of minorities were tolerated by authorities. It' was the only European state where neo nazi paramilitaries were funded and armed by the government. These are pure facts.
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Have they eliminated them yet?
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
Have they eliminated them yet?
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No they've "rebranded" them. So the largest paramilitary organisations (e.g. Azov) were absorbed into the Ukrainian military officially in exchange for removal of their neo nazi iconography and western sanctions were also lifted which for example would have made it a criminal offence for the MoD or private defence contractors to supply Azov directly or indirectly with weapons, financial or technical support.
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
No they've "rebranded" them. So the largest paramilitary organisations (e.g. Azov) were absorbed into the Ukrainian military officially in exchange for removal of their neo nazi iconography and western sanctions were also lifted which for example would have made it a criminal offence for the MoD or private defence contractors to supply Azov directly or indirectly with weapons, financial or technical support.
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Have Russia eliminated them yet is what I meant.(That was one of their primary reasons for invading)

Plus have they been caught doing any Neo-naziing since the war kicked off?
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
Have Russia eliminated them yet is what I meant.(That was one of their primary reasons for invading)

Plus have they been caught doing any Neo-naziing since the war kicked off?
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No, Russia haven't achieved any of their claimed strategic goals at the beginning of the invasion or subsequent re-prioritisation. The closest strategic objective is the control of the entirety of the Donbas.
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
I think one thing that can't be underestimated is how Russia is using this war to push the envelope of military technology. These drone attacks used on Ukraine in Kursk are way beyond western military capability or air defences. That's because Russia has had 3 years of fighting a western-equipped opponent. The experimental missile attack last year was a message too about how Russian engineering had found a way to breach the best air defences we have to offer
They're very unlikely in a position to mass produce that missile technology at this moment in time but the strike did send shockwaves around western governments and media. It's also partly why.western governments have been reluctant to let Ukraine use western long range missiles against targets in Russian territory. It allows Russia to examine the debris and trajectory and develop defences against them. Technology advances more rapidly in war than at any other time. Russia are sharing all this intelligence with China who have built a navy in the last 3 years that is larger than all of Europe's put together.
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The drones they use aren't beyond western capability. Drones are one of the most low tech items that is being used. Effective against Ukraine, yes, high tech, no. Western air defences are different to Ukraine. There's a layered defence that Ukraine can't match, that includes aircraft, long range missiles and then short range missiles to intercept attacks (Israel's Iron Dome). Ukraine hasn't got access to the latest Western tech either.

Yes, China is getting intelligence from Russia, as the West are getting intelligence from Ukraine.
 
DubSpur said:
The drones they use aren't beyond western capability. Drones are one of the most low tech items that is being used. Effective against Ukraine, yes, high tech, no. Western air defences are different to Ukraine. There's a layered defence that Ukraine can't match, that includes aircraft, long range missiles and then short range missiles to intercept attacks (Israel's Iron Dome). Ukraine hasn't got access to the latest Western tech either.

Yes, China is getting intelligence from Russia, as the West are getting intelligence from Ukraine.
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I didn't say the drone technology itself was beyond western capabilities, it's the advanced drone tactics and innovative use of fibre optics to prevent jamming that is beyond our current capabilities and understanding of how drones can be used to most effect on the battlefield. It's similar to how the Germans overwhelmed most of their opponents in the early part of WW2 with innovative blitzkrieg tactics using fairly cheap mass produced technology. Panzer tanks were light and basic and had been developed under the disguise of being tractors.

The Russians are using this war to become battle hardened and innovative in the deployment of modern warfare techniques.

Their advanced drone tactics used to dismantle Ukraine's occupation of Kursk are the talk of the town in military analysis communities.

And that's one of the biggest risks of extending this conflict: that Russia, which has had far greater success than Ukraine in recruitment drives, will end up with a huge, battle hardened military with experience of developing innovative battlefield solutions using drones and other modern warfare tactics.
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
I didn't say the drone technology itself was beyond western capabilities, it's the advanced drone tactics and innovative use of fibre optics to prevent jamming that is beyond our current capabilities and understanding of how drones can be used to most effect on the battlefield. It's similar to how the Germans overwhelmed most of their opponents in the early part of WW2 with innovative blitzkrieg tactics using fairly cheap mass produced technology. Panzer tanks were light and basic and had been developed under the disguise of being tractors.

The Russians are using this war to become battle hardened and innovative in the deployment of modern warfare techniques.

Their advanced drone tactics used to dismantle Ukraine's occupation of Kursk are the talk of the town in military analysis communities.

And that's one of the biggest risks of extending this conflict: that Russia, which has had far greater success than Ukraine in recruitment drives, will end up with a huge, battle hardened military with experience of developing innovative battlefield solutions using drones and other modern warfare tactics.
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The main reason why they had such success in Kursk is that US cut off all intelligence. Before that Ukraine were holding their own. The use of the drones by Russia isn't some new advanced drone tactics, it's doing exactly what Ukraine have done previously to Russia. The only difference is that they've been able to use fibre optics in greater numbers than Ukraine. The Russians aren't coming up new tactics, they're using the same ones they've relied on for centuries, the meat grinder, with one or two examples of copying Ukraine tactics.

If Russia had any innovative tactics that were effective the war would be over a long time ago. They had every advantage at the start of the war in terms of numbers and hardware. It's been Ukraine constantly coming up with the innovative tactics and it's the only reason that they are still in the war. Western allies will have seen those tactics first hand.
 
Bullet said:
Meanwhile...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1663260211782582272

https://twitter.com/x/status/1902351662703923539
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Why engage in whataboutery? You mistake my disdain at our own government and media's propaganda and shoving of our OWN concerns and sanctions against Ukrainian neo-nazism under the carpet for some form of Russian support or propaganda. I can simply remove my own acknowledgement over what a slippery and dangerous character Putin is from my assessment of facts. I.e. not EVERYTHING Putin says about Ukraine is untrue. And in our own government and media's desperation to counter Russian propoganda, they've decided to openly lie to us and engage in propoganda themselves. Tbe whole thing is a total s*** show. I'm merely saying that the "expert" dressing down someone for claiming that Ukraine has a neo nazi problem is a symptom of a deeply problematic situation of: "say anything that may support Russian agenda/criticise Ukraine = you're a sh**bag" which is resulting in the same polarising gonads that surrounds most of the big political issues of our time from Brexit through to Gaza where there can't be any grey, it has to be black or white, this I don't know how to use the like button and this is the wrong answer, like politics is maths or physics.
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
Why engage in whataboutery?
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I mentioned Serbia and Russia because you said "It was the only state where actual neo nazi groups activity publishing material calling for violence and persecution of minorities were tolerated by authorities. It' was the only European state where neo nazi paramilitaries were funded and armed by the government. These are pure facts."

So perhaps you should stop lying.

I don't disagree that there are shades of grey and nothing is 100% right or wrong.

But I would say Ukraine has a light grey stain in the corner, whereas Russia is charcoal grey to its core.
 
Musk, Putin and Trump are Cnuts..........simple as that.

Sooner they all see the inside of a wooden box the sooner the rest of normal humanity can go back to getting anywhere near normality into their lives
 
Grays_1890 said:
Musk, Putin and Trump are Cnuts..........simple as that.

Sooner they all see the inside of a wooden box the sooner the rest of normal humanity can go back to getting anywhere near normality into their lives
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Although Trump is the only one actually trying to bring normality to the world at this moment in time. If he'd have lost the election you'd have had the various conflicts continuing and there wouldn't have even been any talk of peace negotiations, cease fires and Macron and co. would still be fully on the "keep going" and "whatever it takes" band wagon.
 
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