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Politics, politics, politics

So it's only tory voters that movement of people is no longer a big deal
It's still a big deal for everyone, but has fallen into third place last time I checked.

Both parties will leave half of their base feeling betrayed with any kind of Brexit - that's why neither is likely to be able to govern afterwards.
 
It's still a big deal for everyone, but has fallen into third place last time I checked.

Both parties will leave half of their base feeling betrayed with any kind of Brexit - that's why neither is likely to be able to govern afterwards.
And exactly why is trying to make a No Deal look like EU inflexibility and a reversal would be on the Commons shoulders
 
So for all the votes and all the bullsh1t..."nothing has changed" until February. She's off to seek concessions she's been told in advance won't be given.

So if in February, May's deal is basically the same and gets voted down, will Tory Remainers allow no-deal? Some of them have talked of doing 'anything' to avoid it, so we'll see...
 
And exactly why is trying to make a No Deal look like EU inflexibility and a reversal would be on the Commons shoulders
I think there has been some improvement. May now gets to show the EU something that will pass parliament. Until now she and they have been guessing as to what will pass.

The EU can now choose between altering the deal to suit (still a terrible deal for us) and no deal.
 
So for all the votes and all the bullsh1t..."nothing has changed" until February. She's off to seek concessions she's been told in advance won't be given.

So if in February, May's deal is basically the same and gets voted down, will Tory Remainers allow no-deal? Some of them have talked of doing 'anything' to avoid it, so we'll see...
All May has now is brinkmanship, and she's not even very good at it. No deal looks the most likely outcome imo.
 
The way to play the game would be moving to managed no deal - i.e. say the Withdrawal Agreement is dead if backstop can't be changed to Malthouse, and start actively making unilateral/bilateral arrangements for some of the important things that would be affected by no deal.

We should also publically apply to join NAFTA. The thing the EU fears the most is the US economic sphere turning up on their doorstep. You can't do brinksmanship if you don't have a threat of a worse consequence for them
 
So for all the votes and all the bullsh1t..."nothing has changed" until February. She's off to seek concessions she's been told in advance won't be given.

So if in February, May's deal is basically the same and gets voted down, will Tory Remainers allow no-deal? Some of them have talked of doing 'anything' to avoid it, so we'll see...

I think, longer term, that is the absolute worst attitude to have.

Im well aware of the issues it will create, but to "do anything" to avoid it will only end up with us completely hamstrung long term IMO.
 
In 2015, car manufacturers invested £2.5bn in the UK. Since then it has fallen ever year and in 2018 was just £589m.


Are there any positive Brexit stories?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

The Tories and in particular the ERG have got a lot to answer for. They have got comfortable jobs and fat salaries and many of them 7 figure trustfunds behind them. So they won’t feel any adverse effects from Brexit the self-centred bastards!
 
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The Tories and in particular the ERG have got a lot to answer for. They have got comfortable jobs and fat salaries and many of them 7 figure trustfunds behind them. So they won’t feel any adverse effects from Brexit the self-centred bastards!

I'd say the opposite. The establishment always want the status quo, because under those conditions they've got all the wealth and power. Revolutionary change comes from those with much less to lose, which is why Brexit is a latest incarnation of the class war
 
I'd say the opposite. The establishment always want the status quo, because under those conditions they've got all the wealth and power. Revolutionary change comes from those with much less to lose, which is why Brexit is a latest incarnation of the class war

More the few like Boris and Mogg appealing to and manipulating the thick who want it to be like the 50's when their parents were still alive. Most of these still think we are in a battle with Germany. They are all stuck in the days of empire.
 
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I'd say the opposite. The establishment always want the status quo, because under those conditions they've got all the wealth and power. Revolutionary change comes from those with much less to lose, which is why Brexit is a latest incarnation of the class war
Yes but they think the status quo is pre rights for European workers - this is what they are trying to get back to.
 

It is outstanding, unimaginable, that the nation will commit to something that has no clear benifits that ANYONE can outline, but has a massive list of problems that are obvious.

Furthermore, the brexit the government is trying to deliver is not what was promised during the campaign. To top is all off if we had another vote, I don't think we'd leave; which if true, means at this moment in time Brexit is undemocratic.

Why are we going along with something that has no good news, and no clear benifits?
 
It is outstanding, unimaginable, that the nation will commit to something that has no clear benifits that ANYONE can outline, but has a massive list of problems that are obvious.

Furthermore, the brexit the government is trying to deliver is not what was promised during the campaign. To top is all off if we had another vote, I don't think we'd leave; which if true, means at this moment in time Brexit is undemocratic.

Why are we going along with something that has no good news, and no clear benifits?

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." - H. L. Mencken
 
Tory unity is proving slightly stronger than expected; Labour unity rather weaker. Second referendum, A50 revocation or meaningful extension looking less likely; some sort of agreement between now and summer, based on the WA with the PA very much up for grabs, looks pretty likely. Can-kicking will still apply for the transition and the pressure on businesses and on parties to come up with a position won’t end - the economic consequences might start materialising by then, but it will be too late.
 
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