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Politics, politics, politics

It wouldn't make me rejoin the party, but I'd vote Labour again if Corbyn was replaced with a left-winger who didn't have the same anti-imperialist baggage, and wouldn't tolerate the likes of Milne and Fisher. Thornberry, say. That might just happen. A lot of Corbyn's natural supporters would rather focus on the domestic agenda.

But without any prospect of a Labour leadership election or a general election any time soon, hopefully the main impact of all this will be further decline in respect for Corbyn in the TUs, PLP, CLPs and perhaps even Momentum, driving a People's Vote ambush at conference.
 
It wouldn't make me rejoin the party, but I'd vote Labour again if Corbyn was replaced with a left-winger who didn't have the same anti-imperialist baggage, and wouldn't tolerate the likes of Milne and Fisher. Thornberry, say. That might just happen. A lot of Corbyn's natural supporters would rather focus on the domestic agenda.

But without any prospect of a Labour leadership election or a general election any time soon, hopefully the main impact of all this will be further decline in respect for Corbyn in the TUs, PLP, CLPs and perhaps even Momentum, driving a People's Vote ambush at conference.

I agree here, always been a labour voter but he is just too weird for me, I can't vote for him or Labour whilst he is there.
 
I agree here, always been a labour voter but he is just too weird for me, I can't vote for him or Labour whilst he is there.

I can't decide whether the series of weird leaders - and from angry cyclops Brown through stumbling Ed to tovarisch Steptoe, Labour has had a horrible run - was a reaction against Blair, or just chance misfortune.
 
I can't decide whether the series of weird leaders - and from angry cyclops Brown through stumbling Ed to tovarisch Steptoe, Labour has had a horrible run - was a reaction against Blair, or just chance misfortune.

Hahaha could be true, I always thought David M'band was gonna come back from New York as a hero and take it all over.

Corbyns recent antics, wow, just wow
 
Anybody who cannot see that this anti Semitism thing is nothing more than a Tory (Murdoch) press inspired meme to discredit a Labour leader who might actually do something to change society and make things a bit more tolerable for ordinary workers needs their head read. As I have said previously, I'm partly glad, because it shows how worried the economic elite in this country is. About time too. If it was some bland pretender, some weak kneed Ramsay McDonald, do you seriously think there would be all this noise? Of course not.
 
It wouldn't make me rejoin the party, but I'd vote Labour again if Corbyn was replaced with a left-winger who didn't have the same anti-imperialist baggage, and wouldn't tolerate the likes of Milne and Fisher. Thornberry, say. That might just happen. A lot of Corbyn's natural supporters would rather focus on the domestic agenda.

But without any prospect of a Labour leadership election or a general election any time soon, hopefully the main impact of all this will be further decline in respect for Corbyn in the TUs, PLP, CLPs and perhaps even Momentum, driving a People's Vote ambush at conference.

That's definitely the case for me. As far as foreign policy goes, I'd rather we didn't have any more adventures like Iraq and would rather we didn't arm horrible regimes like the Saudis, even if it costs us money as a country.

Re. Thornberry, I'd vote for her given the Tory alternative, but I don't trust her that much. Wasn't there some dodgy stuff re. social housing recently, something about her or her brother? I'd have to look it up.

I agree here, always been a labour voter but he is just too weird for me, I can't vote for him or Labour whilst he is there.

Out of curiosity, who would you vote for in a general election tomorrow?
 
Corbyn is up against one of the weakest governments we've ever seen. Its held together by sticky tape. The Conservatives are a blip away from civil war.... Corbyn to the rescue as the strength and consensus building answer? Corbyn is just the default other option. He's not good enough. To take control Labour need more. Someone who can play the game.
Agreed.
Any other half decent opposition would have forced a GE on the back of public support by now.
However, there is the Brexit variable.
Irrespective of your view on Brexit, it was always going to be a poisoned challace and as an oppisitopp is best left alone.
If there was a huge groundswell for cancelling Brexit (there is a small one, but not huge), then an opposition could lead on that.
And that opportunity may arise by the end of the year.
But as it stands, being out of Govt Is a stronger position than being in Govt.
I do wonder if labour are deliberately putting themselves in the position so when an opportunity arises Corbyn can step aside (he didn't want the job remember, just the platform to make his views better heard) and a centre left personality can take over and charge into no.10 (not sure who)
 
It's an upside down world when Corbyn, who has never ordered the death of anybody, is condemned by Netanyahu, a guy who has no problem with his troops shooting medics, journalists and children with sniper rifles.

It's also an upside down world when The Labour Party is the racist party, particularly the left of the party, when those people have actively campaigned against racism. When it's The Tory Party who have overseen an immigration policy that disproportionately hurt Black British citizens (and by hurt, I mean detained, deported and denied healthcare), and who have at least 3 sitting MPs that have made racist remarks towards black people. You hear mutterings about "Islamophobia" but I haven't heard many asking "do The Tories have a problem with black people?"

The bile aimed at Corbyn, from day 1, is like something I have never seen. It's probably most insidious from the pretend left like The Guardian. They (especially the pretend left) shut up for a minute just after the last election, when it turned out that they really knew the square root of phuck all when it came to what people were prepared and not prepared to vote for. The Tories were supposed to increase their majority to over 100 seats according to the pundits, and Labour took away their majority in Parliament. And at that moment, I actually thought that maybe some of them, the Chuka's of the world, would actually be able to come back into the fold.

It didn't last. The same people who brought you the 'controls on immigration' mugs as merchandise for the Labour Party (they were a real thing), the same people (Chuka himself) who said straight after Brexit that “If continuation of the free movement we have is the price of Single Market membership then clearly we couldn’t remain in the Single Market" would then attack Corbyn over Brexit. Imagine if Corbyn said this, these same people would use it as something to attack him with, continuously, and it would be amplified by the likes of The Guardian.

At the last local elections "Corbyn hates Jews" went into overdrive in the news cycle. And just lately, when Chequers went down badly and Labour jumped back ahead by 5 points across various polls, the latest "Corbyn hates Jews" business started up again -- also coinciding with Labour's internal NEC elections where the right are scared of not holding sway when the next conference is held. Funny that.

I only ever really expected Corbyn to be a place-holder, to drag the party to the left in terms of policy until a new leader emerged. He's done better than I expected and he is stronger than many give him credit for. It must take a lot of resilience to withstand personal attacks, day after day, not just from those who are supposed to be opposed to you, but those who claim to be on your side. He never really wanted to be leader, he stepped forward for the left because nobody else wanted to. He's stayed in charge on behalf of the Labour Party membership who elected him (twice) to lead the party, because let's face it, who needs this headache? The old boy would rather be on his allotment imo. But he is (again imo) staying on out of a sense of responsibility to those who really wanted change and voted for him to lead Labour, and also the many people who wanted change and voted for Labour and their policies at the last GE.

I hope his rebuttal to Netanyahu is the first of many. The people against him can not be placated, they will be against him no matter what. So phuck them. Attack them back. For all the sh1t he has had to eat, it's the least he should do. And if sensible Chucka et al don't like it, then maybe they'll find the balls to be who they really are and form a new centrist bloc with Soubry and friends, plus the Lib Dems. The Centrist, Corporate, Conservative Party.

Or, if you like, the CCCP.

The Labour Party has a problem with anti-Semitism. This is a party with just under 600,000 members. I don't think there has even been 600 members accused of anti-Semitism. That's 0.1 percent. But let's say that there is an army of hidden anti-Semites embedded in the party, 6,000 of them. That's still only 1 percent. Yet the media story isn't "Less than 1 percent of Labour members are cranks and racist" instead the story is "Labour poses an existential threat to Jews in the UK" -- and 3 Jewish newspapers led with roughly that headline very recently. What a crock of sh1t. Enough is indeed enough.

Corbyn is by a million miles the best Labour leader in my lifetime. But the anti-Semitism thing in the Momentum wing is real, as is their past closeness to Irish paramilitaries (though the Czech spy thing was clearly a smear). You can support a nationalist/separatist cause without supporting those who pursue it through violent means
 
Anybody who cannot see that this anti Semitism thing is nothing more than a Tory (Murdoch) press inspired meme to discredit a Labour leader who might actually do something to change society and make things a bit more tolerable for ordinary workers needs their head read. As I have said previously, I'm partly glad, because it shows how worried the economic elite in this country is. About time too. If it was some bland pretender, some weak kneed Ramsay McDonald, do you seriously think there would be all this noise? Of course not.

How would you react if someone said that Tory Islamophobia had been cooked up by the Guardian to discredit Brexit? And then, after you had pointed to every unsavoury tweet and retweet, to Goldsmith's anti-Khan campaign and so on, they dismissed all that as "a meme"?

Would you even bother arguing with them, or would you just give up? After all, they would be denying simple reality.
 
Some of the claims concerning Corbyn have been beyond laughable, at one point they couldn't make up their mind as to whether he was a communist spy or a nazi.
 
How would you react if someone said that Tory Islamophobia had been cooked up by the Guardian to discredit Brexit? And then, after you had pointed to every unsavoury tweet and retweet, to Goldsmith's anti-Khan campaign and so on, they dismissed all that as "a meme"?

Would you even bother arguing with them, or would you just give up? After all, they would be denying simple reality.

I don't consider the Guardian to be a credible source of information either.
 
Corbyn is by a million miles the best Labour leader in my lifetime. But the anti-Semitism thing in the Momentum wing is real, as is their past closeness to Irish paramilitaries (though the Czech spy thing was clearly a smear). You can support a nationalist/separatist cause without supporting those who pursue it through violent means

Like I said, 600,000 members and you'd be struggling to find 600 cases* of anti-semitism imo. Times that figure by ten and you'd still be saying 1% of the party. That's a problem, yes, but certainly not one that presents an "existential threat to Jews in the UK" and other such horsesh1t that has appeared in the media recently.

*As in, 600 members. (I didn't write that very well).
 
That's definitely the case for me. As far as foreign policy goes, I'd rather we didn't have any more adventures like Iraq and would rather we didn't arm horrible regimes like the Saudis, even if it costs us money as a country.

Re. Thornberry, I'd vote for her given the Tory alternative, but I don't trust her that much. Wasn't there some dodgy stuff re. social housing recently, something about her or her brother? I'd have to look it up.

Out of curiosity, who would you vote for in a general election tomorrow?

Thornbury was sacked for mocking the working classes: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/po...nberry-sacked-over-prejudiced-flag-tweet.html

It was an Andrew Mitchell/plebgate incident
 
That's definitely the case for me. As far as foreign policy goes, I'd rather we didn't have any more adventures like Iraq and would rather we didn't arm horrible regimes like the Saudis, even if it costs us money as a country.

Re. Thornberry, I'd vote for her given the Tory alternative, but I don't trust her that much. Wasn't there some dodgy stuff re. social housing recently, something about her or her brother? I'd have to look it up.

She's an odd duck, but a lot of people think it's time for a female leader, she's a compromise between left and soft left, and the Rochdale flag affair would give her enough Remainist cred to allow Labour to stay evasive on Brexit.

It's difficult to see many candidates from the "core group" and "core group positive" that would stand up to much scrutiny.
 
I know about that, I don't give a sh1t about that (I'm working class and live in a council house). But there was something recently, I'll have to search for it.

Husband flogged an ex-council house in Islington, doubled money. Primary residence rather than investment: occupational optics hazard of being a left-winger with money living in Islington.
 
She's an odd duck, but a lot of people think it's time for a female leader, she's a compromise between left and soft left, and the Rochdale flag affair would give her enough Remainist cred to allow Labour to stay evasive on Brexit.

It's difficult to see many candidates from the "core group" and "core group positive" that would stand up to much scrutiny.

I think it'd be fair enough if they said it had to be a woman next time. Or maybe put Barry Gardiner in a dress, I quite like him (although I don't know a lot about him to be honest, I just like the way he fights his corner).
 
Husband flogged an ex-council house in Islington, doubled money. Primary residence rather than investment: occupational optics hazard of being a left-winger with money living in Islington.

Well that doesn't bother me so much if that's all it is. Hardly his fault it's an ex-council house that has gone up by a stupid amount. I thought it might have been something more corrupt, so that's re-assuring.
 
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