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Politics, politics, politics
- Thread starter markysimmo
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SteveAWOL
Chris Jones
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls
I wish I knew how to get more people voting but despite all the sensationalist headlines about UKIP the fact is that barely a third of the UK electorate bothered to cast a ballot for an MEP, which is about the same proportion as every other European Parliament election since 1979.
Even on the continent the population have grown disillusioned with the nebulous EU and turnout has slumped to 43%, can buy hope that the spectre of the rise of the far right will stir the centrist parties into action whilst they still hold sway.
The leaders of the 4 main parties are much of a muchness, all being men from privileged backgrounds who went to public school and/or Oxbridge but Farage has tapped into that right wing vote in a similar way to Sarah Palin in the USA and every other demagogue who's blamed immigrants for high unemployment rates. Will be fascinating to read UKIP' manifesto to see if they actually have any policies beyond leaving the EU...
Indeed... Send the residents of Benefits Street and such like to Romania / Bulgaria /Poland in exchange for some of their citizens who have the skill sets the UK needs to fill the shortfall in GPs and science teachers. The immigrant workers taxes then pay for the unemployed Brits benefits which can be reduced as the cost of living is much lower over there.
I wish I knew how to get more people voting but despite all the sensationalist headlines about UKIP the fact is that barely a third of the UK electorate bothered to cast a ballot for an MEP, which is about the same proportion as every other European Parliament election since 1979.
Even on the continent the population have grown disillusioned with the nebulous EU and turnout has slumped to 43%, can buy hope that the spectre of the rise of the far right will stir the centrist parties into action whilst they still hold sway.
The leaders of the 4 main parties are much of a muchness, all being men from privileged backgrounds who went to public school and/or Oxbridge but Farage has tapped into that right wing vote in a similar way to Sarah Palin in the USA and every other demagogue who's blamed immigrants for high unemployment rates. Will be fascinating to read UKIP' manifesto to see if they actually have any policies beyond leaving the EU...
Indeed... Send the residents of Benefits Street and such like to Romania / Bulgaria /Poland in exchange for some of their citizens who have the skill sets the UK needs to fill the shortfall in GPs and science teachers. The immigrant workers taxes then pay for the unemployed Brits benefits which can be reduced as the cost of living is much lower over there.
Paxtonloudmouth
Michael Brown
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls
I understand both. The tories did not win the election. To win an election in first past the post requires a party to have a majority of the house. Basically Labour lost that election,the Tories did not win it.
Blair won because the labour party could have been run by a dog in 1997 and won. The Major government was a disgrace. Unemployment was a price worth paying and all that.
Also I am not a Trot,but close good try.
I understand both. The tories did not win the election. To win an election in first past the post requires a party to have a majority of the house. Basically Labour lost that election,the Tories did not win it.
Blair won because the labour party could have been run by a dog in 1997 and won. The Major government was a disgrace. Unemployment was a price worth paying and all that.
Also I am not a Trot,but close good try.
AuroRaman
Chris Armstrong
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls
[-X We don't like that term round these here parts
[-X We don't like that term round these here parts
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls
A unique and interesting way of solving our unemployment problem.
A unique and interesting way of solving our unemployment problem.
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls
The first past the post gets to form a government, the first to form a government is the winner. Maybe if the seats were split 49% to Lab, 26% Con, 25% LD you might have a point, but the Conservatives were the clear winners in the 2010 election. If Labour didn't play such dirty tricks over constituency boundaries then it would have been even clearer.
Blair was in charge of the Labour party because they realised that to appeal to modern Britain, they couldn't rely on appealing to the jealous and the work-shy. The Labour party probably would have won by default but they'd already made the discovery that Britain wasn't stuck in the post-war self-destructiveness that still plagues this country.
I'm sure we've debated politics before and I'm sure you're fairly anti-business, anti-wealth, etc. If not, my apologies.
The first past the post gets to form a government, the first to form a government is the winner. Maybe if the seats were split 49% to Lab, 26% Con, 25% LD you might have a point, but the Conservatives were the clear winners in the 2010 election. If Labour didn't play such dirty tricks over constituency boundaries then it would have been even clearer.
Blair was in charge of the Labour party because they realised that to appeal to modern Britain, they couldn't rely on appealing to the jealous and the work-shy. The Labour party probably would have won by default but they'd already made the discovery that Britain wasn't stuck in the post-war self-destructiveness that still plagues this country.
I'm sure we've debated politics before and I'm sure you're fairly anti-business, anti-wealth, etc. If not, my apologies.
Paxtonloudmouth
Michael Brown
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls
Exactly,it is not a Conservative government,it is a coalition government,with a party that had a manifesto to the left of the Labour party in 2010.
Well at least we both agree that Labour would have won regardless in 1997. You call it by default, I say it because of the incompetence of the conservatives,both under Thatcher and Major. Lets not forget the huge recessions under both of their premierships.
I am anti both,very much so. However that still does not make me a Trot. I disagree with poor old Leon on many things.
Exactly,it is not a Conservative government,it is a coalition government,with a party that had a manifesto to the left of the Labour party in 2010.
Well at least we both agree that Labour would have won regardless in 1997. You call it by default, I say it because of the incompetence of the conservatives,both under Thatcher and Major. Lets not forget the huge recessions under both of their premierships.
I am anti both,very much so. However that still does not make me a Trot. I disagree with poor old Leon on many things.
Gilzeantoscore
Justin Edinburgh
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls
Since when? Labour has had plenty of electoral success, Remember Attlee, Darlin' 'arold? In fact Labour dominated the 60's early 70's. No mention of Blair because he wasn't a Labour leader, nothing more than a right wing stooge, so cannot understand your hate for him. Probably because he won a lot!
Since when? Labour has had plenty of electoral success, Remember Attlee, Darlin' 'arold? In fact Labour dominated the 60's early 70's. No mention of Blair because he wasn't a Labour leader, nothing more than a right wing stooge, so cannot understand your hate for him. Probably because he won a lot!
Gilzeantoscore
Justin Edinburgh
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls
Ha,ha. Yes in dictatorships. You intimidate voters who support your opposition, so they don't turn up to vote. However, in this case it was because most people didn't care. If the EU is such a burning issue, why then did only 30% of voters turn out?
Ha,ha. Yes in dictatorships. You intimidate voters who support your opposition, so they don't turn up to vote. However, in this case it was because most people didn't care. If the EU is such a burning issue, why then did only 30% of voters turn out?
Paxtonloudmouth
Michael Brown
Gilzeantoscore
Justin Edinburgh
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls
It is called a hung parliament. The Tories were the biggest single party, but they did not have a majority, therefore it is difficult to suggest that they 'won' the election. In fact given the circumstances it was remarkable that they didn't win and win handsomely. So much for Scara delusion that Britain is a natural centre-right nation. Keep dreaming Scara.
It is called a hung parliament. The Tories were the biggest single party, but they did not have a majority, therefore it is difficult to suggest that they 'won' the election. In fact given the circumstances it was remarkable that they didn't win and win handsomely. So much for Scara delusion that Britain is a natural centre-right nation. Keep dreaming Scara.
Gilzeantoscore
Justin Edinburgh
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls
The UKIP Party remind me of my recently departed uncle Colin, who would often wax lyrical over the state of the nation. He would always preface his 'learned' commentary with the preface 'all the governments got to do is'...print more money, stop immigration, send them all to jail etc., etc. Simplistic notions that took no heed of complexities. Much like UKIP, simple solutions, that play on people's fears and insecurities. It has been done before....when and where was that again?
The UKIP Party remind me of my recently departed uncle Colin, who would often wax lyrical over the state of the nation. He would always preface his 'learned' commentary with the preface 'all the governments got to do is'...print more money, stop immigration, send them all to jail etc., etc. Simplistic notions that took no heed of complexities. Much like UKIP, simple solutions, that play on people's fears and insecurities. It has been done before....when and where was that again?
Gilzeantoscore
Justin Edinburgh
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls
Well put it this way, I'd prefer that to Stalinist. But hey, this is what happens, the name calling starts. See what happens on here if you call someone a Nazi! No, I'm a democratic socialist and Attlee is my political hero.
Well put it this way, I'd prefer that to Stalinist. But hey, this is what happens, the name calling starts. See what happens on here if you call someone a Nazi! No, I'm a democratic socialist and Attlee is my political hero.
Paxtonloudmouth
Michael Brown
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls
If you enjoyed watching Alvaro Recoba play,we are basically the same person.
However although Attlee,is a inspiration. Nye Bevan is my real political hero.
If you enjoyed watching Alvaro Recoba play,we are basically the same person.
However although Attlee,is a inspiration. Nye Bevan is my real political hero.
LutonSpurs
Eric Dear
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls
I am neither rich enough or poor enough for it to have any real impact on me. I imagine alot feel like this hence the low turnouts in elections.
I am neither rich enough or poor enough for it to have any real impact on me. I imagine alot feel like this hence the low turnouts in elections.
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thfcsteff
George Hunt
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls
Good post…in response to your earlier comment about Labour being handed the election in '97, yes, but Stephanopolous "re-designed" them IMV to create that 'Nu Labour' thing…
Good post…in response to your earlier comment about Labour being handed the election in '97, yes, but Stephanopolous "re-designed" them IMV to create that 'Nu Labour' thing…
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls
i don't vote.
but, being a working class guy who works in the construction industry the biggest impact on my quality of life is the knock on effect of cheap unskilled foreign labor reducing my wage. i imagine a lot of you guys probably work in industries where you get a small wage increase every year? try working a job that where the average wage has gone down over the last 10 years (im currently earning 20-30% LESS than i was when i completed my apprenticeship) there are many people who are in the same situation and i don't think it's right to demonize people for voting for the only party who seem to have a serious stance on immigration as it's a serious issue which effects the day to day life of many people in this country.
i have no problem with immigration being used to fill a short fall in industries where there aren't enough skilled people to do the job - that makes perfect sense. But the way it currently seems to work is that people with no legitimate skill can come here and get a job purely because they can afford to work at a much lower rate than a British national. that's just not on and i would hazard a guess that a lot of you would be singing a different tune if it was your industry that was getting flooded with cheap labor and it was your quality of life being reduced as a result.
i don't vote.
but, being a working class guy who works in the construction industry the biggest impact on my quality of life is the knock on effect of cheap unskilled foreign labor reducing my wage. i imagine a lot of you guys probably work in industries where you get a small wage increase every year? try working a job that where the average wage has gone down over the last 10 years (im currently earning 20-30% LESS than i was when i completed my apprenticeship) there are many people who are in the same situation and i don't think it's right to demonize people for voting for the only party who seem to have a serious stance on immigration as it's a serious issue which effects the day to day life of many people in this country.
i have no problem with immigration being used to fill a short fall in industries where there aren't enough skilled people to do the job - that makes perfect sense. But the way it currently seems to work is that people with no legitimate skill can come here and get a job purely because they can afford to work at a much lower rate than a British national. that's just not on and i would hazard a guess that a lot of you would be singing a different tune if it was your industry that was getting flooded with cheap labor and it was your quality of life being reduced as a result.