Politics, politics, politics

[scaramanga]

Not sure that can really stand up - most of the political media in this country is more right-wing/Thatcherite than left-leaning (apart from the BBC, Guardian and The Mirror). There are more than enough outlets that could keep the electorate informed in this regard IF this was a simple fact that could stand up to the most basic of scrutiny. I'm also leaving aside other factors such as the current mantra of "small businesses are the real drivers of the economy/create the most jobs" or whether big multinationals will actually pay their taxes to this country's coffers or even actually employ locals or not.

If "looking after big business because without them, none of you would have jobs" was so simply true, then all the pro-business, pro-Free Market political media outlets would have used this to 'educate the electorate' years ago.

I don't think that's true at all.

I can only think of the Telegraph and the Spectator that are serious media institutions based to the right of centre. Pretty much the whole of most media outlets in most countries are left wing because it's that kind of job. It's why almost all actors, artists, musicians, etc are left wing - they're just more suited to the creative stuff than the level-headed logical stuff.

 

[NWND]

Right, there's a middle ground. I think both the Tories and Labour are still too far towards the side of business, due to Thatcher/Reagan shifting politics over that way all those years ago. Perhaps the pendulum is swinging back more now. For me, Labour are closer to striking a better balance than the Tories, so they get my vote.

But then again it was the coalition who oversaw reforms in reguation.

I don't think Labour's approach is balanced at all, which was the point of the last few posts. Ed's rhetoric is anti-business. So much so that he's accused regularly of being so. Whether he might have those opinions behind closed doors is another thing but at the moment his talk seems more in keeping of the old Labour mistakes of over spending on other things and neglecting the economy. The economy really is the big thing that impacts on everything. For example, if our economy is in the brick the NHS will be too, eventually.

 

[the dza]

But then again it was the coalition who oversaw reforms in reguation.

I don't think Labour's approach is balanced at all, which was the point of the last few posts. Ed's rhetoric is anti-business. So much so that he's accused regularly of being so. Whether he might have those opinions behind closed doors is another thing but at the moment his talk seems more in keeping of the old Labour mistakes of over spending on other things and neglecting the economy. The economy really is the big thing that impacts on everything. For example, if our economy is in the crud the NHS will be too, eventually.

They would have all overseen reforms in banking regulation after the event. The Tories were calling for less regulation when in opposition and it's before the sh1t hits the fan where it really counts. Labour just as bad in that regard.

I don't agree on anti-business. I think not deep-throating business is now called anti-business, because politics has moved so far to the right over the past few decades. I'm happy for politicians to be anti deep-throating business. Sadly, not enough of them are.

 

[NWND]

They would have all overseen reforms in banking regulation after the event. The Tories were calling for less regulation when in opposition and it's before the sh1t hits the fan where it really counts. Labour just as bad in that regard.

I don't agree on anti-business. I think not deep-throating business is now called anti-business, because politics has moved so far to the right over the past few decades. I'm happy for politicians to be anti deep-throating business. Sadly, not enough of them are.

I don't think politics has gone to the right? It's firmly in the centre. In fact, as much as there has been a massive rise in support for UKIP, there's been an equally massive rise in support for far left parties like The Greens, SNP etc.

 

[We are Tottenham]

He can have an opinion... he just can't expect that people are all going to agree with him. Don't like that card, it's the prime defence in cases, such as this. Complete misrepresentation, i.e. some sort of politically correct police state where you can't voice a view. You can voice it anytime, but don't confuse that with an expectation that people will allow it to go un-challenged.

He can have an opinion...elite pint of view forum...he....

 

[We are Tottenham]

He can have an opinion... he just can't expect that people are all going to agree with him. Don't like that card, it's the prime defence in cases, such as this. Complete misrepresentation, i.e. some sort of politically correct police state where you can't voice a view. You can voice it anytime, but don't confuse that with an expectation that people will allow it to go un-challenged.

He can have an opinion...elite pint of view forum...he....

 

[the dza]

I don't think politics has gone to the right? It's firmly in the centre. In fact, as much as there has been a massive rise in support for UKIP, there's been an equally massive rise in support for far left parties like The Greens, SNP etc.

The fact that you'd call the SNP "far left" just shows how the centre ground has been shifted to the right, imo. Not on social issues (gay marriage for example) but certainly in terms of economics. Miliband gets called 'Red Ed' for cutting a bit less than the Tories would. Sums it up.

 

[NWND]

Red Ed gets called that because he is old Labour. He is a Union man. And it's catchy. And Labour's colours are red.

The SNP are pretty far left in terms of their outlook. They're not communists, but they're certainly socialists.

 

[the dza]

Red Ed gets called that because he is old Labour. He is a Union man. And it's catchy. And Labour's colours are red.

The SNP are pretty far left in terms of their outlook. They're not communists, but they're certainly socialists.

Assuming he becomes PM, I hope you're right. But I don't think you are, sadly.

 

[We are Tottenham]

I suspect you'll always find a few outliers - especially if you move in the circles of workshy union types.

As this government has shown, as the economy improves all of our lives improve. Millions of lower paid workers are paying less tax than they did before, there are more jobs than there were, inflation and interest rates are under control, etc. It's those who don't have a personal allowance who've been hit the hardest - that needs to be fixed.

I have to agree with scara..unemployment is also down , Inflation is going below Zero..in my life time that is simply unreal!
As Harold McMillan once famously said "you have never had it so good" but compared to the standard of living today..we live in luxury.. In McMillan's time in the fifties My mother was still on War vouchers..so today is out of all recognition so much better.
Funnily enough, the Tories who used to have massive voting capacity throughout the country can't even win an Election now!!!! [I wonder why] and that's on these miracle figures. Even the interest rate is at record low, so if you have a few bob in your pocket, a mortgage is easy! Even the Polish couple who live next door to us and have to work on less than minimum wages are buying their house.

- As foe me..I'm a working class guy who used to be mad on the socialist ideals ..
- It simply doesn't work..and I have concluded over the years that people should have the freedom
to choose what they want to do in life..albeit, it is not always easy.
I'm voting in this Election for a Party I don't know too much about..
but for years now I have seen through the Tories and the Labour party who incidentally used to stand for so much years ago!

There are still so many things wrong with Britain. apart from how well some of us are doing these days.

I have to say even If I'm not keen on how things have changed from an immigration perspective..logically by numbers its not helping Schools, Housing and everything else in the infrastructure of all these things. Even though you may think I'm an out and out racist [and I can assure you I am certainly not] Our Hospitals and NHS is being put under pressure. A third of our young trained nurses are leaving Britain as well along with their new qualified credentials we have all paid for. I have seen our national health service in some respects get worse over the years. Not enough care from some nurses and poor attendance..non existence sometimes form nursing staff at A & E and that's going back decades ago!


The country still owe trillions apparently, therefor it would be logical for a logical person to vote Tory to keep
the country on tract and to continue to try to pay off the enormous debt the country is in.
However I'm skeptical and cynical that we can pay off the debt and continue to improve things for the country and economy to move forward.

I don't like being a doomsday scenario person but we have some trying times ahead of us to-day and above all
the problems with Russia and even more worrying the Middle East and Africa are having a terrible affect on the whole
World situation as far as our lives and sanity goes.

But the above...... is just another huge problem to add to how Britain will it find itself Ten years from now. Not so good I feel..but as for me I may not even be around..life is indeed ridiculously short!
I maybe wrong about the future..hopefully I am..
We'll have to wait and see how things pan out!

anyway..the main thing is ..as we all know..

We are Tottenham.. we are Tottenham..super Tottenham...from the lane.
we are Tottenham..super Tottenham..we are Tottenham from the lane...

LOL..come on you spurs.................................................................

 

[glorygloryeze]

I have to agree with scara..unemployment is also down , Inflation is going below Zero..in my life time that is simply unreal!
As Harold McMillan once famously said "you have never had it so good" but compared to the standard of living today..we live in luxury.. In McMillan's time in the fifties My mother was still on War vouchers..so today is out of all recognition so much better.
Funnily enough, the Tories who used to have massive voting capacity throughout the country can't even win an Election now!!!! [I wonder why] and that's on these miracle figures. Even the interest rate is at record low, so if you have a few bob in your pocket, a mortgage is easy! Even the Polish couple who live next door to us and have to work on less than minimum wages are buying their house.

- As foe me..I'm a working class guy who used to be mad on the socialist ideals ..
- It simply doesn't work..and I have concluded over the years that people should have the freedom
to choose what they want to do in life..albeit, it is not always easy.
I'm voting in this Election for a Party I don't know too much about..
but for years now I have seen through the Tories and the Labour party who incidentally used to stand for so much years ago!

There are still so many things wrong with Britain. apart from how well some of us are doing these days.

I have to say even If I'm not keen on how things have changed from an immigration perspective..logically by numbers its not helping Schools, Housing and everything else in the infrastructure of all these things. Even though you may think I'm an out and out racist [and I can assure you I am certainly not] Our Hospitals and NHS is being put under pressure. A third of our young trained nurses are leaving Britain as well along with their new qualified credentials we have all paid for. I have seen our national health service in some respects get worse over the years. Not enough care from some nurses and poor attendance..non existence sometimes form nursing staff at A & E and that's going back decades ago!


The country still owe trillions apparently, therefor it would be logical for a logical person to vote Tory to keep
the country on tract and to continue to try to pay off the enormous debt the country is in.
However I'm skeptical and cynical that we can pay off the debt and continue to improve things for the country and economy to move forward.

I don't like being a doomsday scenario person but we have some trying times ahead of us to-day and above all
the problems with Russia and even more worrying the Middle East and Africa are having a terrible affect on the whole
World situation as far as our lives and sanity goes.

But the above...... is just another huge problem to add to how Britain will it find itself Ten years from now. Not so good I feel..but as for me I may not even be around..life is indeed ridiculously short!
I maybe wrong about the future..hopefully I am..
We'll have to wait and see how things pan out!

anyway..the main thing is ..as we all know..

We are Tottenham.. we are Tottenham..super Tottenham...from the lane.
we are Tottenham..super Tottenham..we are Tottenham from the lane...

LOL..come on you spurs.................................................................

So erm....you will be voting for?

 

[glorygloryeze]

I don't think that's true at all.

I can only think of the Telegraph and the Spectator that are serious media institutions based to the right of centre. Pretty much the whole of most media outlets in most countries are left wing because it's that kind of job. It's why almost all actors, artists, musicians, etc are left wing - they're just more suited to the creative stuff than the level-headed logical stuff.

Really? If we look at March 2015 newspaper circulation figures here in the UK we have the following dailies in order of highest to lowest:
- The Sun (Right wing)
- The Mail (Right wing)
-The Mirror (Left wing)
- The Daily Telegraph (Right wing)
- Daily Express (Right wing)
- Daily Star (Possibly Left?)
- The Times (Right wing)
- i (Liberal/Left)
- Financial Times (pro-Free Market)
- Daily Record (Left wing)
- The Guardian (Liberal/Left)
- Independent (Liberal/Left)
Source: http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/natio...affected-second-full-month-without-page-three

So, whether the institutions are 'serious' or not you can see that in the UK those right of the centre are fairly well represented in terms of readership, so if the message of "looking after big business because without them, none of you would have jobs" was simply true there are enough media outlets to inform of this fact and enough readers who would be receptive. The fact that this 'message' hasn't filtered down to the masses is NOT to do with the fact that the media in this country are too left to relay it.

On your second point about media outlets being inherently left wing: how does the big Global media corporations fit into this narrative? Are you SERIOUSLY saying that Sky, Fox News, CNN, ABC, Reuters, Bloomberg etc are all liberal-lefties??

And in terms of creative stuff vs logical level-headed stuff: the investment bankers and other financial institution bigwigs who created the 2007/08 crash from such things as 'credit-default-swaps' and creatively packaing huge toxic debts amongst solid assets before selling across the world over and over are all left wing? I use them as an example because i doubt we will see such creativity in this world (outside of the Film Industry) for a very long time: what they were doing then, THAT was truly creative!

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

He can have an opinion... he just can't expect that people are all going to agree with him. Don't like that card, it's the prime defence in cases, such as this. Complete misrepresentation, i.e. some sort of politically correct police state where you can't voice a view. You can voice it anytime, but don't confuse that with an expectation that people will allow it to go un-challenged.

He can have an opinion...elite pint of view forum...he....

????

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

The SNP are considered to be far left because they are "oh my GHod" socialists!

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Don't worry Scara, you have nothing to fear from Labour. All they are going to do, is to appropriate your company with no financial compensation. You will then perhaps be rewarded by receiving the Order of Lenin (Second Class) for services to the State.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Well it's not an easy vote winner, as after the economic crash, there is still a lot of public ill-feeling towards big business, The City and the banks in particular.

While the behaviour of the banks at the time was reckless, the root cause of the problem in my view was a lack of adequate regulation and the very weak role the then FSA played in making sure that customers were being treated fairly, that due diligence was being carried out on mergers and acquisitions and that adequate risk and assurance controls were being maintained, that banks kept adequate cash reserves and that the high-risk investment arms of major financial institutions were kept separate from retail divisions.

Small business is an important part of the economy, but it's a lie that big business isn't the most important part. It's another reason why Nigel Farage should know better than that he would reduce foreign aid if he got into power (being an ex investment banker). Much of our 'foreign aid' isn't foreign aid at all. It's payments to India and China that aren't needed considering the considerable wealth in those countries, but we continue to make the payments in exchange for their investment in our businesses and economy.

I do think, however, that Cameron has let a lot of what Ed Milliband says that could easily be picked apart go. It's an interesting strategy. Even in the leaders debates, he seemed to be holding back from engaging directly with Milliband. I heard one theory that the Tory PR department are wary of taking Ed to the cleaners over some points, as they feel that while left alone he does a good job in general of coming across as a bit awkward and un-PM-like, but if Cameron, who is more authoritative started laying into him, he could come across as a bit of a typical Tory bully and could lead to Ed getting the sympathy vote.

I'm not sure if that's plausible or not, but it does seem as though the Conservatives are holding back from an all-out offensive against Labour and their policies. I'm unsure of the reason why.

Maybe its because of the perception that the public is fed up of negative campaigning. I know it was viewed that Milliband might have scored an own-goal when he blamed the migrant deaths in the Med on Cameron.

It's not an easy vote winner because the mantra of "looking after big business because without them, none of you would have jobs" has effectively been allowed to decide policy and STILL we have a big recession, the biggest seen in decades. As you say the recklessness of the banks was largely responsible for that, but whilst that was happening many big corporations have earned huge profits after being based in the UK. So looking after big business is not a new thing.
I believe big business usually forms PART of a successful Economy and i think the best economies have a healthy mix of businesses of all sizes; too much emphasis on the big multinationals does not neccesarily equal wealth trickling down for all imo, especially if they play by vastly different rules to the smaller businesses (e.g. in terms of paying their taxes due to that country). Ultimately, the productivity of a country and the demand for those products is what decides how good an economy is. Maybe a debate for another thread is: what does the UK produce that gives it a big advantage in the global marketplace? For me, if the answer to this is a variety of things then the make-up of the economy into small or medium or big companies becomes a lot less of an issue imo.
On the whole people vote with the pockets and future prospects; if that message was simply true then regardless of the crash it would be a message that would get through as being able to pay the bills often counts the most for people when they vote.

 

[thfcsteff]

I don't think that's true at all.

I can only think of the Telegraph and the Spectator that are serious media institutions based to the right of centre. Pretty much the whole of most media outlets in most countries are left wing because it's that kind of job. It's why almost all actors, artists, musicians, etc are left wing - they're just more suited to the creative stuff than the level-headed logical stuff.

Sorry mate, this is absolute gonads. Delivered, I am sure, with a wink and a smile, but nonetheless, gonads. 'Level-headed logical stuff'...hahahahahahaha, what, like the preservation of wealth for a few with the illusion of wealth for many? And that wasn't a lyric or a line from some film script...

p.s. did you know I'd take the bait willingly?

 

[thfcsteff]

Scara..

The Sun, The Mail, the Torygraph, the Express, Sky...christ...come ON man! All that LOGIC and no CLARITY on yer media bias? I won't claim The Times just as the left shouldn't claim The Independent; both struggle for middle-ground.

 

[thfcsteff]

I don't think politics has gone to the right? It's firmly in the centre. In fact, as much as there has been a massive rise in support for UKIP, there's been an equally massive rise in support for far left parties like The Greens, SNP etc.

Long discussion to be had here, but the bottom line is that the shift in societal conscience since the 60s and 70s has seen people move to a far more 'right' perspective. The idea of social services is increasingly viewed as 'handouts-for-tossers' and anyone who is not vying to make as much money as they can is increasingly seen as 'lazy scum'...by the same token, migrant workers who work their nuts off are seen as 'skewing a living off us'...there is an increasingly money-driven, intolerant atmosphere in society mate. I think one of the great things which remains about British politics is the fact that the Greens, SNP, etc CAN be heard and have a voice, albeit their numbers are small. I hate the UKIP personally and think Farage is a buffoon, however they, too, have the right to exist and be heard. But at the end of the day, the system will find a way to preserve itself, because ultimately, society has shifted too far away from the centre IMO. Would be an interesting discussion to have someday mate...

 

[johnola]

I have just decided to vote for the tories as i know the mp has done some good constituency work for a friend of mine. Labour parachuted in some bloke from luton and liberals some yokel from devon. Do me a favour.
Their is no differentors for me that count at a national levo el except for keeping the overexcitable scots at bay.
All you letties justifying poncing off of state charity dont help.