Politics, politics, politics

[glorygloryeze]

I would suggest that you are then breaking the law. The agency workers directive came in about 2 years ago.

https://www.gov.uk/agency-workers-your-rights/overview

How are they breaking the law? That rule says that after 12 weeks the employee is entitled to the same rights and qualify for equal treatment.
That's not the same as having to offer them a 'permanent contract'. For example they are entitled to sick pay and paid holidays, but they are NOT entitled to redundancy pay or to claim for unfair dismissal like permanent employees would be.

 

[scaramanga]

How are they breaking the law? That rule says that after 12 weeks the employee is entitled to the same rights and qualify for equal treatment.
That's not the same as having to offer them a 'permanent contract'. For example they are entitled to sick pay and paid holidays, but they are NOT entitled to redundancy pay or to claim for unfair dismissal like permanent employees would be.

In the case of the agencies we deal with, the increase in hourly rates to cover those entitlements are exorbitant.

So we're back to the options of 0 hour contracts or no contracts. I know which the people working for us would prefer.

 

[scaramanga]

Btw Nwnd I believe that employees on zero hours contracts are entitled to sick pay etc just as any other employee.

They're entitled to holiday pay but not sick pay.

 

[scaramanga]

Mate I don't want to sound contrary but that's just not true. There are firms I know who employ the same people from agencies for over 12 months. I have one such employee. Presumably the work that people do on zero hours contracts are low skilled stuff which doesn't require much training?

The job requires enough training that getting someone new in every day is prohibitively expensive.

 

[NWND]

NWND I am no fan of Ed Miliband indeed he is one reason I would consider not voting labour. But to make out he is the only one making populist statements is utter tosh. How about the following from "call me Dave"

Posturing about The EU not working and needing change after getting a bloody nose from UKIP after the local elections

The NHS is safe in his hands as his disabled child used it, whilst extending the role of private companies and putting in place reforms which were opposed by pretty much every medical and nursing body and widely criticised by the King's Fund.

Taking credit for raising the income tax threshold when it was never in his party''s manifesto.

Where did I say I was a massive fan of Cameron?

 

[NWND]

I am sorry mate but that is just not true, I am not a political person and I have no love for any party but I know that ALL politicions are full of spin and that is across all partys. Its easy for me to say/see that as I am not one eyed towards any of them unlike some when these sorts of debates take place.

Who said anything about Ed being the only one with spin, what I said is that there are no solid policies behind his spin, whereas behind Cameron and Clegg's spin, at least there is evidence of solid economic growth?

 

[NWND]

He writes this crap, but insists he isn't partisan. ha, ha.

Who said I wasn't partizan? I'm partisan towards my own view point on each issue. What I don't do is pigeon hole myself as left or right wing, socialist, communist, fascist etc. I probably have what would be viewed as right wing views on some things and what would be considered left wing views on others.

 

[scaramanga]

The best you can do is to draw on your experience of working as a casual whilst at uni. Really? Not quite the same for a worker supporting his wife and family is it? My brother worked casually in a warehouse. Was out one morning and got the call to report for work, with no notice. "Get here in 45 minutes." "I can't, I'm at the shops. I have to get home, get my uniform and then drive to the job. The traffic's bad and it will take me at least an hour and a half." The reply, "get here in 45, or lose your job."

Why are businesses so keen on casualization? They do it, because it's cheap. Like I posted earlier, a race to the bottom. It's cheap, because it short changes workers. Spin it any way you like, that is the reality. Only three types of people would argue otherwise. The ignorant, the delusional, or exploitative businesses that benefit from the practise. Here we are in the 21st century and people are calling for employment policies from the 19th century. Dockers used to line up for week each morning, hoping to be selected. Yes, some really have gulped the Kool Aid.

You're still making the mistaken assumption that the alternative to a 0 hour contract is a permanent contract. In every case I've seen the alternative to a 0 hour contract is no contract at all.

A bit of advice for your brother - the best way to not be disposed of is to make oneself too good or important to dispose of. Education is the best way, but often working harder than anyone else is enough.

 

[Robspur12]

I would suggest that you are then breaking the law. The agency workers directive came in about 2 years ago.

https://www.gov.uk/agency-workers-your-rights/overview

Please trust me when I say this my firm could not break the law.

Where did I say I was a massive fan of Cameron?

where did I say you were a massive Cameron fan. I was pointing out that it's not just ed Milliband who makes populist statements.

 

[parklane1]

Who said anything about Ed being the only one with spin, what I said is that there are no solid policies behind his spin, whereas behind Cameron and Clegg's spin, at least there is evidence of solid economic growth?

I bet you posted that with a straight face, you should get a job in politics you would be good at it.

 

[Robspur12]

Scara, and NWND I absolutely believe in hard working people being properly rewarded. But sadly hard work does not necessarily equate with wealth. Wealth is often a product of luck and being in the right place at the right time. So Scara says the answer is to "work harder!" For a society to function we need to have people willing to do a wide range of jobs not just highly paid law or banking jobs right? The midwife who delivered my son had worked a 10 hour day and was then on call in the evening, she came in as the hospital was short of midwives, worked from 845pm until my wife delivered after 4am. I was truly humbled by her dedication, skill and love for her job. Her salary though is modest. She is on PAYE so she pays a proper contribution to the tax system. To supplement her wages she needs good public services. I support a society that looks after her and her family because she is not being very well rewarded financially. There are 100s of examples like her.

Now we have those 100 signatories to the letter in the telegraph slating Milliband for saying he will not bring the top rate of Corporation tax down to 20% but instead give small businesses a reduction in business rates. These arseholes who are probably writing their letter from their second homes in Monaco can afford to pay more tax and still be super rich. And herein lies a problem for me. I am lucky enough to be comfortably off but not rich. I pay my share of taxes because I realise how important public services are. You see my family came from a country where until very recently, families had to choose between sending their kids to school or work. They had to choose if they could afford medicines or food. This is not an exaggeration. We take many things for granted in the Uk we don't have to make those choices anymore. But the country is broke and the very system that makes this country great is creaking and under threat. So these 100 signatories who can afford two holidays and second homes would prefer to keep holding on to their money than to contribute more to help their Country. And the Tory party would prefer to let them keep their money and make further cuts, including telling the midwife she's not worth a one percent pay rise, that could take us back to pre- war standards of living. I could never vote for that party despite my reservations about Miliband.

 

[the dza]

Great post, Robspur.

 

[NWND]

Scara, and NWND I absolutely believe in hard working people being properly rewarded. But sadly hard work does not necessarily equate with wealth. Wealth is often a product of luck and being in the right place at the right time. So Scara says the answer is to "work harder!" For a society to function we need to have people willing to do a wide range of jobs not just highly paid law or banking jobs right? The midwife who delivered my son had worked a 10 hour day and was then on call in the evening, she came in as the hospital was short of midwives, worked from 845pm until my wife delivered after 4am. I was truly humbled by her dedication, skill and love for her job. Her salary though is modest. She is on PAYE so she pays a proper contribution to the tax system. To supplement her wages she needs good public services. I support a society that looks after her and her family because she is not being very well rewarded financially. There are 100s of examples like her.

Now we have those 100 signatories to the letter in the telegraph slating Milliband for saying he will not bring the top rate of Corporation tax down to 20% but instead give small businesses a reduction in business rates. These arseholes who are probably writing their letter from their second homes in Monaco can afford to pay more tax and still be super rich. And herein lies a problem for me. I am lucky enough to be comfortably off but not rich. I pay my share of taxes because I realise how important public services are. You see my family came from a country where until very recently, families had to choose between sending their kids to school or work. They had to choose if they could afford medicines or food. This is not an exaggeration. We take many things for granted in the Uk we don't have to make those choices anymore. But the country is broke and the very system that makes this country great is creaking and under threat. So these 100 signatories who can afford two holidays and second homes would prefer to keep holding on to their money than to contribute more to help their Country. And the Tory party would prefer to let them keep their money and make further cuts, including telling the midwife she's not worth a one percent pay rise, that could take us back to pre- war standards of living. I could never vote for that party despite my reservations about Miliband.

Just pure hyperbole. You do know that ultimately, the government, whether Tory or Labour, don't get an actual say in whether your midwife gets a one-per-cent pay rise? That's down to the NHS, trusts and local authorities in some instances.

Cameron is right, you need a strong economy to have a strong NHS, to give the NHS more money, for them to give your midwife a pay-rise.

You do not get a strong economy by just ramping up the taxes on the top earners. They'll leave or go off-shore, find loop-holes. It's their money. They earnt it. They already pay 50% tax. That's a lot. Imagine if half of your money was taken away from you that you earnt.

The same goes for companies. You need to cut the big multi-nationals a break, otherwise they will move away from this country. Small businesses are important, but ultimately, I'm afraid that this country's real economic power rests with the likes of HSBC, RBS, BAE Systems, G4S, Capita and the people who own and run them. You push these people and businesses away, which you risk doing with Ed's rhetoric and you are effectively hurting your midwife as much as anyone.

 

[Robspur12]

Just pure hyperbole. You do know that ultimately, the government, whether Tory or Labour, don't get an actual say in whether your midwife gets a one-per-cent pay rise? That's down to the NHS, trusts and local authorities in some instances.

Cameron is right, you need a strong economy to have a strong NHS, to give the NHS more money, for them to give your midwife a pay-rise.

You do not get a strong economy by just ramping up the taxes on the top earners. They'll leave or go off-shore, find loop-holes. It's their money. They earnt it. They already pay 50% tax. That's a lot. Imagine if half of your money was taken away from you that you earnt.

The same goes for companies. You need to cut the big multi-nationals a break, otherwise they will move away from this country. Small businesses are important, but ultimately, I'm afraid that this country's real economic power rests with the likes of HSBC, RBS, BAE Systems, G4S, Capita and the people who own and run them. You push these people and businesses away, which you risk doing with Ed's rhetoric and you are effectively hurting your midwife as much as anyone.

I fully understand how the tax system works thanks. Btw it was the health secretary who told the trusts that staff could not get a1% pay rise.

Where have I Said anything about the 50% tax rate? I don't agree with it as it is a tax on work. And no I don't agree with someone paying more to the state than they take home to their families. Quite selective with your posts. I do however believe in better off people paying a larger contribution so I would rather tax their wealth like their homes.

The Corporation tax rate was already highly competitive at the old rate. It did not need cutting anymore. If anything the threshold could have been raised. People and companies stay in the uk for more reasons than just the tax system. But of course you have fallen for the rhetoric of bankers and rich company owners. 90% of people in this country are employed in small to medium sized businesses. I support measures to help them before cutting Corporation tax for the big boys.

 

[parklane1]

Great post, Robspur.

It is.

 

[NWND]

I fully understand how the tax system works thanks. Btw it was the health secretary who told the trusts that staff could not get a1% pay rise.

Where have I Said anything about the 50% tax rate? I don't agree with it as it is a tax on work. And no I don't agree with someone paying more to the state than they take home to their families. Quite selective with your posts. I do however believe in better off people paying a larger contribution so I would rather tax their wealth like their homes.

The Corporation tax rate was already highly competitive at the old rate. It did not need cutting anymore. If anything the threshold could have been raised. People and companies stay in the uk for more reasons than just the tax system. But of course you have fallen for the rhetoric of bankers and rich company owners. 90% of people in this country are employed in small to medium sized businesses. I support measures to help them before cutting Corporation tax for the big boys.

Sorry fella, I thought you were on about income tax rises for the rich, although I have to ask whether taxing wealth assets amounts to the same thing effectively?

My point is that I think it's time to stop the bashing of bankers and creating a toxic, anti-business rhetoric. I think.it is time to give large corporations a bit of a break to re-engage with big global business and increase growth. While employment numbers might lie in smaller firms my point still stands that the majority of economic power comes from the larger companies.

We need to cut the banks some slack in particular as at the moment our major banks and financial institutions are still too risk-adverse and therefore not lending enough. This is keeping the property market outside London relatively stagnant, growth wise and limiting economic growth and recovery and the ability of smaller firms to grow and and take on new staff and work.

We've hammered big business so much since the crash and made it a populist thing. Its time to balance the stance and encourage a return to more freedom and less restriction of our major financial institutions.

 

[DTA]

Watch "Change The Tune - Green Party 2015 Election Broadcast" on YouTube - Change The Tune - Green Party 2015 Election Broadcast:

Possibly the best party political broadcast ever....


And I am far from a green party voter

 

[NWND]

Watch "Change The Tune - Green Party 2015 Election Broadcast" on YouTube - Change The Tune - Green Party 2015 Election Broadcast:

Possibly the best party political broadcast ever....


And I am far from a green party voter

I saw it on TV tonight. I don't think it is, I don't think it's funny and it's a bit brick really. It's also surprising for The Greens IMO to go for the mocking other party leaders/vote for us to sock it to them message rather than anything policy based?

It's actually pretty much exactly the same message as UKIP.

 

[the dza]

I have decided that, for the first time, I will be voting Labour in the General Election (I have voted Lib Dems in the previous two General Elections -- I'm 31 and they are the only two I have been eligible to vote in thus far).

I toyed with the idea of Greens, but they seem too flaky. Spoiled ballot was the next favourite. But I dunno, overall Labour's policies will look out for the likes of me better than Tory and I don't mind Miliband. Of course, they will disappoint if elected, but for me, they are better than the alternative.

Unlike a lot of people, I don't get my ideas about benefits from the papers. I rely on in-work benefits (housing benefit, tax credits) and I know people who rely on out of work benefits. I am the very person that the Tories want to shaft -- f*ck 'em. I don't think the sky will fall in if they get back in, because it will be in a coalition again. But I think things will get worse for the likes of me, whereas under Labour it wouldn't be quite as bad. not much of an endorsement, but it's the most credit I can give any of them.

On a side note, a quick straw poll of the warehouse I work in and the winner, by a landslide, was..."I'm not voting, couldn't give a sh1t, they are all c**ts" or words to that effect. Hard to disagree with that too. But I always feel I should vote in the General Election.

 

[P.D.]

Scara, and NWND I absolutely believe in hard working people being properly rewarded. But sadly hard work does not necessarily equate with wealth. Wealth is often a product of luck and being in the right place at the right time. So Scara says the answer is to "work harder!" For a society to function we need to have people willing to do a wide range of jobs not just highly paid law or banking jobs right? The midwife who delivered my son had worked a 10 hour day and was then on call in the evening, she came in as the hospital was short of midwives, worked from 845pm until my wife delivered after 4am. I was truly humbled by her dedication, skill and love for her job. Her salary though is modest. She is on PAYE so she pays a proper contribution to the tax system. To supplement her wages she needs good public services. I support a society that looks after her and her family because she is not being very well rewarded financially. There are 100s of examples like her.

Now we have those 100 signatories to the letter in the telegraph slating Milliband for saying he will not bring the top rate of Corporation tax down to 20% but instead give small businesses a reduction in business rates. These arseholes who are probably writing their letter from their second homes in Monaco can afford to pay more tax and still be super rich. And herein lies a problem for me. I am lucky enough to be comfortably off but not rich. I pay my share of taxes because I realise how important public services are. You see my family came from a country where until very recently, families had to choose between sending their kids to school or work. They had to choose if they could afford medicines or food. This is not an exaggeration. We take many things for granted in the Uk we don't have to make those choices anymore. But the country is broke and the very system that makes this country great is creaking and under threat. So these 100 signatories who can afford two holidays and second homes would prefer to keep holding on to their money than to contribute more to help their Country. And the Tory party would prefer to let them keep their money and make further cuts, including telling the midwife she's not worth a one percent pay rise, that could take us back to pre- war standards of living. I could never vote for that party despite my reservations about Miliband.

I do agree with the sentiment that strong public services for individuals like the example you give are needed. I suppose the counter argument to the above would be that less tax due gives businesses the freedom to hire additional employees and provide pay rises.

The tone of your voice indicates that everyone high up in business spends weekends on their yacht eating caviar which is just a little sensationalist.