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Politics, politics, politics

Danishfurniturelover said:
Your better then that and you know it Milo. The elites brought this court case, 3 europhile judges gave the verdict that most MP's want so they can knock it into the long grass as you put it. This gives the MP's the chance to stay on the EU gravy train and not follow the will of the majority.

We had project fear, can you guys tell me what the new project is called to keep the working man in his place.
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I do not see what elites have to do with this, liberal or otherwise. The court case was crowd funded by thousands of individuals. The Brexit campaign was lead and funded by the elites just as much as remain. That is the nature of politics.

The judges decided the case on a point of law on the limits of the Royal Prerogative. We do not know each of their views on the referendum and they are immaterial. The case is simple, the executive cannot remove rights granted by an act of parliament with recourse to parliament. I think that if this case was on any other subject you would support the judges decision.

I do not believe that MPs will try and reverse or delay the outcome of the referendum. I do think though that proper parliamentary scrutiny of the process is a good thing, especially when the ministers who are meant to be leading on it appear to have such little grasp of the process.

This was all avoidable. The Prime Minister could have said from the off that her plan was to let parliament vote on A50 before it was issued but chose not to.
 
Gutter Boy said:
The referendum vote was to repeal everything from the Treaty of Rome to the Lisbon Treaty. Very straightforward.
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No it wasn't. It was a vote on leaving the EU and nothing else. What we leave the EU for was not on the ballot paper and what now needs deciding. The executive does not have a free pass on what that should be.
 
SpurMeUp said:
You're point being that MPs voting on UK matters is exactly what Leave campaigned for!

@Sexagenarianlover The notion that a referendum mandates the government to invent "Brexit" in any shape or form, without any parliamentary vote or accountability was highly highly dubious. We didn't know the terms, broad or detailed, at the time of the vote, and the issues are far too important to life in the UK for a select few to dictate them without democratic input.

Extremely shocking that the government has not agreed to engaged our democratic process until now, and instead wanted to act as a dictatorship would.
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Leave your echo chamber for a few minutes and speak to people who voted leave.

Just about everyone I know or have heard from who did, voted leave no matter what the type of Brexit. Such is the dissatisfaction with the EU that any type of leave is preferable to any type of remain.
 
@scaramanga & @Gutter Boy (am I addressing two voices of the same person?) I'm glad the post was provocative. If I'm honest, I don't fully agree with my points in it (maybe I need another login and voice) as it misses the key issues completely. Firstly, a benign dictatorship is undoubtedly the most effective way to make fast progress running a country. Just look at how rapidly China has been transformed.

The issue here is that the Prime Minister is seemingly trying to push through something she doesn't believe in. Or is it a rouse to be able to negotiate better EU terms - call it Boris Brexit as it would be a sham exit?

The other crucial question is what Brexit terms will be satisfactory to the EU and also in the UK interests? The EU will protect its own. How can the government find win-win agreements on trade when the EU needs us less than we need their trade?

If we dig back through this thread it was predicted the pound would settle at $1.20, on this news today it rose a little. If Brexit was cancelled the pound would rise again significantly. Making petrol, holidays, pretty much anything imported, cheaper. The question to @scaramanga is do you and your friends think that the financial markets have it wrong? You believe in free markets, and the power of the markets, I know this. Ultimately these markets are a collective judgement, a collective weighing up of Brexit, made by people who analyse and price things for a living. They see Brexit as bad for the UK, hence the value of our currency losing 20%! What you are saying is these people are wrong. The market is wrong. I think most people who leave the nostalgia out the equation and just evaluate the facts see that Brexit is not in the UKs interests. How MPs will vote knowing this, will be interesting.
 
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Devaluing a currency is often good for an economy. George Osborne was trying to do it for years ('cost of living crisis' was what Milliband used to call it). It makes your goods more competitive to export, whilst boosting domestic production for domestic consumption.

One of the big flaws with the Eurozone is that countries don't have the flexibility to be able to do it. Greece would be in a 10 times better situation now if it had been able to devalue its currency.
 
SpurMeUp said:
@scaramanga & @Gutter Boy (am I addressing two voices of the same person?) I'm glad the post was provocative. If I'm honest, I don't fully agree with my points in it (maybe I need another login and voice) as it misses the key issues completely. Firstly, a benign dictatorship is undoubtedly the most effective way to make fast progress running a country. Just look at how rapidly China has been transformed.

The issue here is that the Prime Minister is seemingly trying to push through something she doesn't believe in. Or is it a rouse to be able to negotiate better EU terms - call it Boris Brexit as it would be a sham exit?
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That's absolutely what the Prime Minister should be doing. It is her job to perform the will of the people - if she feels more strongly about her own opinion than the public's then she should resign.

SpurMeUp said:
The other crucial question is what Brexit terms will be satisfactory to the EU and also in the UK interests? The EU will protect its own. How can the government find win-win agreements on trade when the EU needs us less than we need their trade?
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The one that's already on the table - free trade, free movement.

SpurMeUp said:
If we dig back through this thread it was predicted the pound would settle at $1.20, on this news today it rose a little.
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It rose on the BOE announcement about not dropping interest rates. Don't believe everything you read on the BBC - there's an agenda there.

SpurMeUp said:
If Brexit was cancelled the pound would rise again significantly. Making petrol, holidays, pretty much anything imported, cheaper.
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Many experts would disagree. There's a strong opinion that the £ should always have been pegging closer to the € for some time now, and it just needed a short, sharp shock to knock it in line. I sincerely doubt we could have avoided any such jolt for a significant amount of time.

SpurMeUp said:
The question to @scaramanga is do you and your friends think that the financial markets have it wrong? You believe in free markets, and the power of the markets, I know this. Ultimately these markets are a collective judgement, a collective weighing up of Brexit, made by people who analyse and price things for a living. They see Brexit as bad for the UK, hence the value of our currency losing 20%! What you are saying is these people are wrong. The market is wrong. I think most people who leave the nostalgia out the equation and just evaluate the facts see that Brexit is not in the UKs interests. How MPs will vote knowing this, will be interesting.
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Markets don't like uncertainty, therefore they get spooked. Put some certainty back in and things will settle very quickly.
 
galeforce said:
to be fair the chap on the panel advocating Trump outdid the Brits tonight
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He's a weapons grade idiot. Huey Morgan was no better though. I cannot believe that everyone seems to be overlooking the fact the Trump has a child *struggle cuddle* case coming up.
 
milo said:
He's a weapons grade idiot. Huey Morgan was no better though. I cannot believe that everyone seems to be overlooking the fact the Trump has a child *struggle cuddle* case coming up.
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i can only assume it's not being mentioned because it's a minor
 
scaramanga said:
That's absolutely what the Prime Minister should be doing. It is her job to perform the will of the people - if she feels more strongly about her own opinion than the public's then she should resign.
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Call me old fashioned but I like leaders to lead. To have vision. To know what is best and make it happen. Are there any greater leaders who led using focus groups?

No doubt that is exactly what May is doing. The great sham is that she is not representing their will, the will of the masses, but mainly a tiny elite of Telegraph reading toffs who are nostalgic for a Britain of colonial times. A true leader would discern the true will of the people, and deliver what is right for the country.
 
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galeforce said:
i can only assume it's not being mentioned because it's a minor
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She's not a minor any more. She has gone public and asked the press to cover it but Trump's lawyers are being very aggressive in trying to silence the press.
 
milo said:
She's not a minor any more. She has gone public and asked the press to cover it but Trump's lawyers are being very aggressive in trying to silence the press.
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they are doing an effective job, i'm not sure i've seen it anywhere other than twitter
 
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