Politics, politics, politics

[Grays_1890]

If a Visa process puts people off then they can shove off. I went to work in Dubai and took 3 months to get paperwork, I offered a skill they had a shortage of and in end it was worth it. Same applies.

I'm sorry but saying we should have an opern border policy for work sake is just a crock.

 

[Baleforce]

If a Visa process puts people off then they can shove off. I went to work in Dubai and took 3 months to get paperwork, I offered a skill they had a shortage of and in end it was worth it. Same applies.

I'm sorry but saying we should have an opern border policy for work sake is just a crock.

What if you were offered the same money for the same role in a country with a similar climate without any paperwork?

We should have an open border policy for many reasons, I feel that people only see half of the situation, they are fully aware that people are free to come without realising that they themselves are also free to leave.

 

[Richie]

What if you were offered the same money for the same role in a country with a similar climate without any paperwork?

We should have an open border policy for many reasons, I feel that people only see half of the situation, they are fully aware that people are free to come without realising that they themselves are also free to leave.

Britons don't need free movement to emigrate. In fact, of the Top 10 emigration destinations for Britons from 2009-14, six were outside the EU. Emigration to Australia alone (207,000) was more than to Spain, France, Germany and Ireland (154,000) combined. Based on the Top 10 destinations, non-EU migration outweigh EU migration by 5:2, we don't need to be part of free movement to leave the UK

Source: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...s-emigrating-revealed-Spain-number-three.html

 

[Grays_1890]

We should have an open border policy for many reasons, I feel that people only see half of the situation, they are fully aware that people are free to come without realising that they themselves are also free to leave.

Is this a "If you don't like it you can leave" statement or if not explain?

They way I see it is this, we promote and justify having a Queen who sits in Buck house and promotes Englishness and therefore in some justifications promotes tourism to the outside world who love to come to England for that fact (By the way I have no beef with the queen). So whats the difference in that and myself wanting to be immersed in that Englishness away from Buck house and in my own town?

I live in an area that is one third immigrants based on the 2011 census, people can say its narrow minded to hark back to the old days but its also my given right to do so.

Rapid demographic change can put enormous pressure on local public services and threaten people’s sense of security and belonging and I make no excuse for how I feel.

 

[Baleforce]

Britons don't need free movement to emigrate. In fact, of the Top 10 emigration destinations for Britons from 2009-14, six were outside the EU. Emigration to Australia alone (207,000) was more than to Spain, France, Germany and Ireland (154,000) combined. Based on the Top 10 destinations, non-EU migration outweigh EU migration by 5:2, we don't need to be part of free movement to leave the UK

Surely that backs up my point, why are so few people migrating to other EU nations?

We can live and work in any country in the EU, why stay in this brickhole? I'm sure many have dependents whom they cannot leave, there is no argument there (it's the only reason I still live in the UK), but I guess the greatest reason is that most don't even consider it.

 

[P.D.]

If a Visa process puts people off then they can shove off. I went to work in Dubai and took 3 months to get paperwork, I offered a skill they had a shortage of and in end it was worth it. Same applies.

I'm sorry but saying we should have an opern border policy for work sake is just a crock.

How did you find Dubai? What did you do and was it expensive? I'm thinking of moving out that way.

 

[Baleforce]

Is this a "If you don't like it you can leave" statement or if not explain?

They way I see it is this, we promote and justify having a Queen who sits in Buck house and promotes Englishness and therefore in some justifications promotes tourism to the outside world who love to come to England for that fact (By the way I have no beef with the queen). So whats the difference in that and myself wanting to be immersed in that Englishness away from Buck house and in my own town?

I live in an area that is one third immigrants based on the 2011 census, people can say its narrow minded to hark back to the old days but its also my given right to do so.

Rapid demographic change can put enormous pressure on local public services and threaten people’s sense of security and belonging and I make no excuse for how I feel.

It's a, "it's a big world and you only get one turn" statement, why wouldn't you want to experience as much as possible?

You may have a skill or an interest better sated in another country, you might just want better weather or a culture more in line with your world view (Chich really should live in Berlin for example).

We don't have that desire to explore that some nationalities have, which is ironic considering we spent the 19th century sticking flags everywhere.

What do you mean by harking back to the old days (I don't want to put words in your mouth before commenting)?

 

[Grays_1890]

How did you find Dubai? What did you do and was it expensive? I'm thinking of moving out that way.

Dubai was good, nice winters horrible summers.

If you play golf then first place to head in golf club membership IMHO.

 

[P.D.]

What if you were offered the same money for the same role in a country with a similar climate without any paperwork?

We should have an open border policy for many reasons, I feel that people only see half of the situation, they are fully aware that people are free to come without realising that they themselves are also free to leave.

There's also the reverse of immigration, poorer countries find it harder to develop because their top talent such as engineers, doctors, lawyers etc take advantage of cheaper education then immediately move abroad to move more elsewhere.

 

[P.D.]

Dubai was good, nice winters horrible summers.

If you play golf then first place to head in golf club membership IMHO.

I love golf and sun.

Is the cost of living high?

 

[Grays_1890]

What do you mean by harking back to the old days (I don't want to put words in your mouth before commenting)?

I have been out in the world and worked at length in Middle East and North America, I did so with my experience in work, my own cash on hip and respect for other cultures, I also did so knowing I wanted to come back to Englands green land for a Sunday pint and roast, English papers and the football.

I love this country and I make no excuses for wanting to live in a predominantly English environment, people can pigeon hole that view as what they wish to extinguish the point of view but I looked at myself through the same eyes when I moved and worked abroad. I made sure I shared Iftars in Dubai, went to colleagues homes and done as the locals did because thats a HUGE part of the charm in moving abroad when you take out the benefits. I did the same in Cairo, Syria and Toronto, when I got home sick I came back.

We can argue this point but the fact immigrants try and turn areas of the UK into pockets of their homeland backs up my view that they are not here to immerse into UK culture or integrate.

 

[Grays_1890]

There's also the reverse of immigration, poorer countries find it harder to develop because their top talent such as engineers, doctors, lawyers etc take advantage of cheaper education then immediately move abroad to move more elsewhere.

A point people ignore, anyone watch that program on Greece recently? They guy said exactly the same thing, what chance does any nation have to prosper when its very best up and leave, he was referring to Syria at the time but he was spot on. If the answer to all countries problems is to up and leave then the worlds going to fold sooner rather than later.

 

[Richie]

Surely that backs up my point, why are so few people migrating to other EU nations?

We can live and work in any country in the EU, why stay in this brickhole? I'm sure many have dependents whom they cannot leave, there is no argument there (it's the only reason I still live in the UK), but I guess the greatest reason is that most don't even consider it.

I don't quite understand your point. I took your opinion as 'free movement is important because it allows people to leave' when in reality it's hardly a factor for most people as they tend to emigrate to non-EU countries.

The emigration show an important factor and that is that language matters. Britons emigrate, by and large, to other English speaking countries. This is the reason the UK will never struggle to attract skilled migrants regardless of visa requirements, we are an English speaking nation and English is the worlds and Europes most spoken language. If you're Latvian, or Hungarian or Croatian who is looking to leave your home country and you speak fluent English already, the UK will be one of your top choices in Europe regardless of whether you require a visa or not.

 

[Richie]

A point people ignore, anyone watch that program on Greece recently? They guy said exactly the same thing, what chance does any nation have to prosper when its very best up and leave, he was referring to Syria at the time but he was spot on. If the answer to all countries problems is to up and leave then the worlds going to fold sooner rather than later.

I work at a University and know a number of Greeks who came here for their undergraduate and postgraduate studies and they are all staying in the UK, at least in the short term. I can't imagine it's good for Greece but it's certainly good for us.

 

[Baleforce]

I don't quite understand your point. I took your opinion as 'free movement is important because it allows people to leave' when in reality it's hardly a factor for most people as they tend to emigrate to non-EU countries.

The emigration show an important factor and that is that language matters. Britons emigrate, by and large, to other English speaking countries. This is the reason the UK will never struggle to attract skilled migrants regardless of visa requirements, we are an English speaking nation and English is the worlds and Europes most spoken language. If you're Latvian, or Hungarian or Croatian who is looking to leave your home country and you speak fluent English already, the UK will be one of your top choices in Europe regardless of whether you require a visa or not.

this bit is my point, my feeling is people in the UK don't even consider emigrating to another EU country, they are not aware its an option for them

 

[Grays_1890]

this bit is my point, my feeling is people in the UK don't even consider emigrating to another EU country, they are not aware its an option for them

I think people are pretty much more clued up on the option, more so than you think but wish not to do so.

My old man was offered the chance to work for a better life in France years back and turned that down for his life of which he loved in Thurrock. Of which now he hates as its become a 3rd foreign occupied and not the area he grew up in and worked till his age of 68.

 

[Baleforce]

I have been out in the world and worked at length in Middle East and North America, I did so with my experience in work, my own cash on hip and respect for other cultures, I also did so knowing I wanted to come back to Englands green land for a Sunday pint and roast, English papers and the football.

I love this country and I make no excuses for wanting to live in a predominantly English environment, people can pigeon hole that view as what they wish to extinguish the point of view but I looked at myself through the same eyes when I moved and worked abroad. I made sure I shared Iftars in Dubai, went to colleagues homes and done as the locals did because thats a HUGE part of the charm in moving abroad when you take out the benefits. I did the same in Cairo, Syria and Toronto, when I got home sick I came back.

We can argue this point but the fact immigrants try and turn areas of the UK into pockets of their homeland backs up my view that they are not here to immerse into UK culture or integrate.

I don't see anything wrong with either approach, integrate if you want to, don't if you don't.

Cultural integration will inevitable occur organically over time as exposure to others is experienced.

I travel around the UK a lot, most of it is still "a predominantly English environment".

 

[Grays_1890]

But its down to those choosing to move abroad to integrate not vice versa, thats how culture is maintained.

Thats why the UK tourist board does not promote East London or Finsbury Park Mosque in their video promotions abroad, which contradicts the theory that its a grand thing, otherwise they would, no?

 

[Baleforce]

I think people are pretty much more clued up on the option, more so than you think but wish not to do so.

My old man was offered the chance to work for a better life in France years back and turned that down for his life of which he loved in Thurrock. Of which now he hates as its become a 3rd foreign occupied and not the area he grew up in and worked till his age of 68.

Ok, we'll have to agree to disagree over this. I think many people have a mental block on it, be it due to nationalism or xenophobia (not for a second suggesting your father felt this way, I obviously have no knowledge of his motivations). I'm of an age where my mother and grandparents were openly racist when I was a child, I was exposed to flimflam opinion presented as fact, I can only assume many of my generation had the same, this could easily play a subconscious part.

 

[Baleforce]

But its down to those choosing to move abroad to integrate not vice versa, thats how culture is maintained.

Thats why the UK tourist board does not promote East London or Finsbury Park Mosque in their video promotions abroad, which contradicts the theory that its a grand thing, otherwise they would, no?

Culture shouldn't be maintained it should be evolved.