Politics, politics, politics

[scaramanga]

@scaramanga Market Forces...everyone moves to Wigan to buy cheap houses...houses no longer cheap.

ok, I'll edit it...

You can live in a brick part of Wigan, or a brick part of Harlow. The bricktyness factor is about the same bar one thing - one of these areas is in a region of greater wealth, and therefore better employment opportunities. Therefore, there's more demand to live in the equally brick area, which pushes up the cost of housing there.

If the cost of housing in an area like Wigan is so much cheaper, I would suggest that it's not to do with the unwillingness to live in a brick area (see a brick part of Harlow). But it is due to the economy of the area not being able to support enough workers that create a high demand for the housing there.

So there is a lack of cheap housing in the UK, because people need to be where the work is. It's disingenuous to simply say "move to Wigan."

There are tables released where they calculate property prices against median incomes. The North turns out to be far more affordable than London when adjusted for wages.

 

[parklane1]

Problem is youngsters don't want to work in heavy industry anymore. It's been drummed into them "get a degree". Well you don't go to uni to work in a steel mill, building ships or go down a mine.

Well that is true, they go to Uni and come out as social workers or body language experts and mess up everyones life they come across.

 

[the dza]

There are tables released where they calculate property prices against median incomes. The North turns out to be far more affordable than London when adjusted for wages.

That's to be expected, especially when you include the crazy properties bought by foreign billionaires.

But can all the people in the South East of England who are struggling with rents/trying to buy all just move up North, get work and buy the cheap houses? No -- because if the work was there, people would be up there doing it, driving demand to live there meaning that those houses up there wouldn't be cheap either.

Instead, we get far more internal migration from North to South than the other way around, and it's not because an ex-council house in Basildon/Dagenham/Harlow/wherever is just more desirable in and of itself than one in Wigan. So again, the solution to having affordable housing isn't just "move up north."

 

[scaramanga]

That's to be expected, especially when you include the crazy properties bought by foreign billionaires.

But can all the people in the South East of England who are struggling with rents/trying to buy all just move up North, get work and buy the cheap houses? No -- because if the work was there, people would be up there doing it, driving demand to live there meaning that those houses up there wouldn't be cheap either.

Employers don't start businesses on an "If you build it they will come" basis - one of the main requirements to opening or expanding any branch is a sufficient local workforce.

This is obviously partly skewed by governments (notice a trend?) bringing in minimum wage levels so that people in the North can't differentiate properly. It's not that all the jobs are in London, it's just that all the jobs people want are in London. It's a personal choice that many make to earn more in London but never own their own house - personally I prefer to earn about a quarter of what I could in London, but have my own house.

Instead, we get far more internal migration from North to South than the other way around, and it's not because an ex-council house in Basildon/Dagenham/Harlow/wherever is just more desirable in and of itself than one in Wigan. So again, the solution to having affordable housing isn't just "move up north."

It really is that simple. I understand that most don't want to live up North - I certainly wouldn't want to, but realities sometimes have to take precedence. We have very low unemployment in this country (at least until the living wage gets to take an effect), any employment effect you see is of choice more than necessity.

 

[AuroRaman]

Anyone been reading up on the Panama Papers revelations?

 

[Baleforce]

Anyone been reading up on the Panama Papers revelations?

not really, I find the desire of some to know what others do with THEIR money highly distasteful

if some illegal activity is illuminated I hope that is dealt with accordingly but the witch hunt for those legally investing abroad gets far too many foaming at the mouth

 

[AuroRaman]

it really is that simple.

No. It really isn't. I say that as someone who can very comfortably live in London. But thankfully, as someone who has experienced wealth that most people cannot imagine AND the polar opposite, lived amongst big business and my Mum unable to find work then also at some point working three jobs to put food on our table, I can see Capitalism for the complete failure it is. Market Schmarket, it's all gonads

 

[AuroRaman]

if some illegal activity is illuminated I hope that is dealt with accordingly

I think that's what is causing much issue. It won't be, and it won't be.

 

[scaramanga]

not really, I find the desire of some to know what others do with THEIR money highly distasteful

if some illegal activity is illuminated I hope that is dealt with accordingly but the witch hunt for those legally investing abroad gets far too many foaming at the mouth

Most people use the term tax avoidance like it's a dirty word. I don't think I know a single person who doesn't own an ISA, yet nobody seems to realise that paying into an ISA is precisely that.

 

[scaramanga]

No. It really isn't. I say that as someone who can very comfortably live in London. But thankfully, as someone who has experienced wealth that most people cannot imagine AND the polar opposite, lived amongst big business and my Mum unable to find work then also at some point working three jobs to put food on our table, I can see Capitalism for the complete failure it is. Market Schmarket, it's all cobblers

I'm not fortunate enough to have the means to live in London (at least not the parts I want to) but I have a similar past to yours by the sound of it. My family didn't have to move to London to get a job.

In fact, of all the people I know who have moved to London, only an Irishman from a small village and someone who grew up on a farm in the West Country moved to London because there was no work in their area. The others all moved there because the jobs they wanted were there.

 

[scaramanga]

Anyone been reading up on the Panama Papers revelations?

If tax rates weren't so high that it becomes akin to daylight robbery, then there would be less appetite for going beyond the legal limits to avoid paying.

I don't know if you pay via PAYE. If you do, take a look at that line on your payslip and honestly tell me that it's not outright thievery.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

some drink from the fountain of knowledge, you only gargled.

 

[AuroRaman]

If tax rates weren't so high that it becomes akin to daylight robbery, then there would be less appetite for going beyond the legal limits to avoid paying.

I don't know if you pay via PAYE. If you do, take a look at that line on your payslip and honestly tell me that it's not outright thievery.

I was self employed for 12 years and yes, I am now PAYE. I have no issue with paying the amount I do as long as I see results. Which I feel we can both agree is not seen in many areas.

With regards to your first paragraph. I agreed. Now imagine that statement read as someone not elitist or from a large corporation. Or, you know, those hat make the tax rules for everyone else...

 

[AuroRaman]

some drink from the fountain of knowledge, you only gargled.

Assuming this is aimed at me? Would love to hear your thoughts

 

[glasgowspur]

Our tax system is dumb, people with any intelligence realise that, resent it and try and avoid it.
I fall into the 40% bracket, just. So I pay 40% but I get free prescription,had one in 15 year. My dentist offered me one for a mouthwash and looked at me as if I was mad when I said no i will pay for it. I believe in paying my way and don't mind a little extra to help out others less fortunate, but I don't see why I should pay for other people earning more than me to have free prescription, eye tests etc.
giving it to me in hand and taking away with another just gives the oppurtunity to abuse it.

 

[parklane1]

If tax rates weren't so high that it becomes akin to daylight robbery, then there would be less appetite for going beyond the legal limits to avoid paying.

I don't know if you pay via PAYE. If you do, take a look at that line on your payslip and honestly tell me that it's not outright thievery.

I doubt it would have any effect on most though a greedy bastard is a greedy bastard no matter what, not suggesting you do or you are though. ( to be clear).

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Assuming this is aimed at me? Would love to hear your thoughts

it was not aimed at you

My aim in political subjects is to belittle who does not agree with anything I think.

My views are so varied it is likely if i got into a political discussion i would agree with you.

I believe in gay marriage and gay adoption. I think benefits should be cut right back and only those who have paid in should get out. I believe in legalising drugs. I believe in a ban on immigration unless they are highly skilled(ths chav scum can do the low paid jobs, they would do them by getting rid of job seekers allowance) I believe in privatising the NHS but I believe making the trains state owned again. I want to see the BBC sold off but more funding for the National theatre.
I believe we should leave the EU but if we vote to stay in then we should give the houses of parliaments to the Chinese to turn into a hotel. I am not consistent to anything that is just me.

 

[the dza]

The Tories should just be honest and say "we have no intention of changing the ways people avoid tax, other than some token tinkering, because these people donate most of the campaign funds to our party -- without them, we would not exist. Infact, these people are the reason we have a Tory party, so of course we govern in their interests above all else."

Might not be a vote winner, but hey, it's more honest than "we're all in this together."

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Yeah funny about this. The Tories constantly go on about increased spending and falling revenue streams, but never extend themselves to go after the billions lost to tax evasion. I wonder why? Oh I know...it's because the tax evaders are the people they represent!

 

[parklane1]

Yeah funny about this. The Tories constantly go on about increased spending and falling revenue streams, but never extend themselves to go after the billions lost to tax evasion. I wonder why? Oh I know...it's because the tax evaders are the people they represent!

Got it in one and they always have been.