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Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

Watching Harriet Harman on the daily politics - Labour really need to curb their public appearances until they have better answers or admit the Tory's have done a better job with the economy than labour would have.

This is not an area they will win votes in, they need to concentrate on social policy.

Everyone knows you bring in the Tories to sort the economy but have to take the hard social aspects with it.


Mods- we should change this thread title to official election thread or similar. Give us a good platform to discuss who to not vote for
 
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

Mods- we should change this thread title to official election thread or similar. Give us a good platform to discuss who to not vote for

I've changed it to a more general politics thread title for the moment
 
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

A bit simplistic all that. Firstly Thatcher had a huge majority, which gave her the electoral fat to carry out her 'leadership' agenda. Secondly, the Labour party was very, very weak. They were split three ways and were no great threat until very late on in her term. Yeah I wish the Tories had a Thatcher like leader too...it would help to get the left wing vote out quick smart.

You talk about her majorities as if they are mutually exclusive to her leadership style. People were sick to death of the Unions after the 70s, the three-day week and the Winter of Discontent, Thatchers strength in the face of pressure by the Unions is a huge reason why she won.
 
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

You talk about her majorities as if they are mutually exclusive to her leadership style. People were sick to death of the Unions after the 70s, the three-day week and the Winter of Discontent, Thatchers strength in the face of pressure by the Unions is a huge reason why she won.

Yep if a politician actually stood up for things I and the majority of the electorate were bothered about they might get somewhere. Maybe why Farage is doing well.
 
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

Yeah, I don't personally know anyone that thinks pregnant working women should be fired, flooding is caused by gays, traffic on a motorway is caused by our 'open-door' immigration policy, guns should be legalised etc etc. but then I live in London and we generally point and laugh at the Kippers.

Farage says its a few rotten apples, but as I mentioned earlier, it is with such regularity that they cause controversy with pathetic attitudes that the whole ****ing apple tree is rotting from its roots.

I'm sure people do agree with their more colourful views, you only have to look at their FB page to read the bile their supporters write. And the party itself has been cute in highlighting buzzwords like immigration and EU constantly to gain support. But as Monkey mentioned earlier, they have no substance beyond that, they're actually a bit of a joke.

It's almost an MP a week that has to resign from major political parties because they've said something considered out of line.

Part of my disgust at British politics is the whole 'spin' and 'party line' bull-sh** that is actually fostered by the British media. Better not say anything remotely controversial or different, or make a badly thought-out comment, or a mistake, or be f***ing human. Otherwise you'll face a massive call to resign from the media.

You know what, you say traffic on a motorway is caused by an open-door immigration policy, well actually, that's just stupid. But what is not stupid is that our population is growing at a completely unsustainable rate, our services are at breaking point as a result, there isn't enough housing and our energy supply is so inadequate to cope with projected population growth that they predict regular blackouts in the next 25 years.

Part of the problem is immigration or rather, net-migration. It is at an unsustainable high and while the present government has managed to get non-EU immigration down to pre-2000 levels, while we remain in the EU, we basically have zero control over who comes here and if we don't get a handle on it, guess what, we will have to be like China and end up with a one-child per family policy as we are already one of the most densely populated countries in Europe, or we will be totally fu**ed.

The problem is none of the major parties will talk about this issue freely, for fear of the snearing liberals and the British press accusing them of all sorts.

UKIP are the first party to really expose this issue for the massive one it is. Yes, as a result they will attract unsavoury people, mainly ex--BNP supporters or voters, who have left the BNP as their influence and relevance has plummeted.

But Farage says things that needed to be said and breaks the norm and UKIP have been a much-needed breath of fresh air for British politics. Are they the people I want to run the country? No, they're not. But they might force the main political establishment to radically re-think their entire agenda and their opinion as to what the average British citizen actually thinks and wants.

Most British people are against mass-immigration, but that is exactly what we have been given. Most British people do not want to be a part of the EU, but guess what? We are. Oh, and if you complain about it? You're a fascist/racist/uneducated thug/white van man/little Englander. I really hope that UKIP give the major parties the scare of their lives in the next general election and I can't wait to see the British media coverage if they do. We need a shake-up. A big f***ing shake up. There's only one man in town that is going to give us that.
 
the problem with all that of course, is that the "average British citizen" is a ****ing idiot

the last thing political parties need to do is base policy on the thoughts of those who read the daily Mail and watch the X factor

whilst i abhor the suggestion to not vote, and those who make it, the fewer "average British citizen's" who turn up and cast an ill considered vote the better
 
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

You talk about her majorities as if they are mutually exclusive to her leadership style. People were sick to death of the Unions after the 70s, the three-day week and the Winter of Discontent, Thatchers strength in the face of pressure by the Unions is a huge reason why she won.


Well, leadership is associated with a parties majority. A leader can afford to be more radical in his/her program when possessed of sufficient electoral fat. That is basic political strategy, just like getting un-popular legislation through early and then putting out sweeteners just prior to an election. Just common sense really. Anyone can show 'strength', as you put it, when they have a massive majority. I dare say she wouldn't be so bolshie if she was in Cameron's shoes. Wasn't so tough towards the end of her term when Labour got their act together. She was nothing more than a flat tack bully. History will not judge her or her village idiot son kindly.
 
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Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

It's almost an MP a week that has to resign from major political parties because they've said something considered out of line.

Part of my disgust at British politics is the whole 'spin' and 'party line' bull-sh** that is actually fostered by the British media. Better not say anything remotely controversial or different, or make a badly thought-out comment, or a mistake, or be f***ing human. Otherwise you'll face a massive call to resign from the media.

You know what, you say traffic on a motorway is caused by an open-door immigration policy, well actually, that's just stupid. But what is not stupid is that our population is growing at a completely unsustainable rate, our services are at breaking point as a result, there isn't enough housing and our energy supply is so inadequate to cope with projected population growth that they predict regular blackouts in the next 25 years.

Part of the problem is immigration or rather, net-migration. It is at an unsustainable high and while the present government has managed to get non-EU immigration down to pre-2000 levels, while we remain in the EU, we basically have zero control over who comes here and if we don't get a handle on it, guess what, we will have to be like China and end up with a one-child per family policy as we are already one of the most densely populated countries in Europe, or we will be totally fu**ed.

The problem is none of the major parties will talk about this issue freely, for fear of the snearing liberals and the British press accusing them of all sorts.

UKIP are the first party to really expose this issue for the massive one it is. Yes, as a result they will attract unsavoury people, mainly ex--BNP supporters or voters, who have left the BNP as their influence and relevance has plummeted.

But Farage says things that needed to be said and breaks the norm and UKIP have been a much-needed breath of fresh air for British politics. Are they the people I want to run the country? No, they're not. But they might force the main political establishment to radically re-think their entire agenda and their opinion as to what the average British citizen actually thinks and wants.

Most British people are against mass-immigration, but that is exactly what we have been given. Most British people do not want to be a part of the EU, but guess what? We are. Oh, and if you complain about it? You're a fascist/racist/uneducated thug/white van man/little Englander. I really hope that UKIP give the major parties the scare of their lives in the next general election and I can't wait to see the British media coverage if they do. We need a shake-up. A big f***ing shake up. There's only one man in town that is going to give us that.

A lot of generalizations here. Where is your evidence that most people oppose mass immigration and do not want to be part of the EU? Going by this, you clearly expect UKIP to form government after the election. Good luck with that!
 
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

It's almost an MP a week that has to resign from major political parties because they've said something considered out of line.

Part of my disgust at British politics is the whole 'spin' and 'party line' bull-sh** that is actually fostered by the British media. Better not say anything remotely controversial or different, or make a badly thought-out comment, or a mistake, or be f***ing human. Otherwise you'll face a massive call to resign from the media.

You know what, you say traffic on a motorway is caused by an open-door immigration policy, well actually, that's just stupid. But what is not stupid is that our population is growing at a completely unsustainable rate, our services are at breaking point as a result, there isn't enough housing and our energy supply is so inadequate to cope with projected population growth that they predict regular blackouts in the next 25 years.

Part of the problem is immigration or rather, net-migration. It is at an unsustainable high and while the present government has managed to get non-EU immigration down to pre-2000 levels, while we remain in the EU, we basically have zero control over who comes here and if we don't get a handle on it, guess what, we will have to be like China and end up with a one-child per family policy as we are already one of the most densely populated countries in Europe, or we will be totally fu**ed.

The problem is none of the major parties will talk about this issue freely, for fear of the snearing liberals and the British press accusing them of all sorts.

UKIP are the first party to really expose this issue for the massive one it is. Yes, as a result they will attract unsavoury people, mainly ex--BNP supporters or voters, who have left the BNP as their influence and relevance has plummeted.

But Farage says things that needed to be said and breaks the norm and UKIP have been a much-needed breath of fresh air for British politics. Are they the people I want to run the country? No, they're not. But they might force the main political establishment to radically re-think their entire agenda and their opinion as to what the average British citizen actually thinks and wants.

Most British people are against mass-immigration, but that is exactly what we have been given. Most British people do not want to be a part of the EU, but guess what? We are. Oh, and if you complain about it? You're a fascist/racist/uneducated thug/white van man/little Englander. I really hope that UKIP give the major parties the scare of their lives in the next general election and I can't wait to see the British media coverage if they do. We need a shake-up. A big f***ing shake up. There's only one man in town that is going to give us that.

Do you think that there are any positives for the UK from immigration? And what do you think of Britons who benefit from freedom of movement buy going to live elsewhere in the EU?
 
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

Part of the problem is immigration or rather, net-migration. It is at an unsustainable high and while the present government has managed to get non-EU immigration down to pre-2000 levels, while we remain in the EU, we basically have zero control over who comes here and if we don't get a handle on it, guess what, we will have to be like China and end up with a one-child per family policy as we are already one of the most densely populated countries in Europe, or we will be totally fu**ed.

Without the increased birth rate from Immigrant families there won't be enough workers to pay for our pensions.
 
the problem with all that of course, is that the "average British citizen" is a ****ing idiot

the last thing political parties need to do is base policy on the thoughts of those who read the daily Mail and watch the X factor

whilst i abhor the suggestion to not vote, and those who make it, the fewer "average British citizen's" who turn up and cast an ill considered vote the better

What a snidy, horrible load of *******s. Typical of the attitude most people have had enough of. We're tired of being sneared at, not listened to, dismissed. You should try a career in British politics. You have the right attitude for it, including a hideous loathing of the people you would wish to serve.

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A lot of generalizations here. Where is your evidence that most people oppose mass immigration and do not want to be part of the EU? Going by this, you clearly expect UKIP to form government after the election. Good luck with that!

Opinion polls. Talking to people. The internet, a whole wealth of tools available. Not everyone that shares those views will vote UKIP. Particularly in a general election, but I think the majority of people's views on immigration (there's been too much of it) and the EU (we don't want to be a part of it) aren't even disputed by the media.
 
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

It's almost an MP a week that has to resign from major political parties because they've said something considered out of line.

Part of my disgust at British politics is the whole 'spin' and 'party line' bull-sh** that is actually fostered by the British media. Better not say anything remotely controversial or different, or make a badly thought-out comment, or a mistake, or be f***ing human. Otherwise you'll face a massive call to resign from the media.

You know what, you say traffic on a motorway is caused by an open-door immigration policy, well actually, that's just stupid. But what is not stupid is that our population is growing at a completely unsustainable rate, our services are at breaking point as a result, there isn't enough housing and our energy supply is so inadequate to cope with projected population growth that they predict regular blackouts in the next 25 years.

Part of the problem is immigration or rather, net-migration. It is at an unsustainable high and while the present government has managed to get non-EU immigration down to pre-2000 levels, while we remain in the EU, we basically have zero control over who comes here and if we don't get a handle on it, guess what, we will have to be like China and end up with a one-child per family policy as we are already one of the most densely populated countries in Europe, or we will be totally fu**ed.

The problem is none of the major parties will talk about this issue freely, for fear of the snearing liberals and the British press accusing them of all sorts.

UKIP are the first party to really expose this issue for the massive one it is. Yes, as a result they will attract unsavoury people, mainly ex--BNP supporters or voters, who have left the BNP as their influence and relevance has plummeted.

But Farage says things that needed to be said and breaks the norm and UKIP have been a much-needed breath of fresh air for British politics. Are they the people I want to run the country? No, they're not. But they might force the main political establishment to radically re-think their entire agenda and their opinion as to what the average British citizen actually thinks and wants.

Most British people are against mass-immigration, but that is exactly what we have been given. Most British people do not want to be a part of the EU, but guess what? We are. Oh, and if you complain about it? You're a fascist/racist/uneducated thug/white van man/little Englander. I really hope that UKIP give the major parties the scare of their lives in the next general election and I can't wait to see the British media coverage if they do. We need a shake-up. A big f***ing shake up. There's only one man in town that is going to give us that.

There are elements in this that I actually agree with! Some points on the bits I don't:

I've never said in this thread that immigration and the EU aren't valid talking points. I am saying that beyond bleating about this (in-between making ****tard comments), Farage and his merry band have nothing. They are being clever in that they are using buzzwords like internet click bait to attract support. It's also interesting to note that Farage and UKIP have the worst attendance in Europe, but are still very very happy to pick up the benefits, expenses and lifestyle of a Eurocrat. Then there is their links to extreme far-right groups across Europe. Man of the people indeed...

Immigration is not a 'massive' issue, nor are 'most British people against mass-imimigration' - simply not true. This is sensationalist Daily Fail/Fox News territory and I'm surprised that for such an excellent and logical poster to read that from you. The stats don't lie, immigration has been incredible for this country. We need to update immigration policy for sure, I would like to see a system in place that is more in line with Australian and New Zealand.

Yes, Farage/UKIP are saying things a lot (not most) British people are thinking, again, just with Immigration and EU. He has this reputation of being some sort of Teflon Don in debates because he set his stall out from the start. You are right, the other parties are too scared about 'saying the wrong thing' and this is where UKIP have cornered a market (I mean that literally, they have no interest in change, they want power and capitol, same as plenty of others in the political spectrum). Farage can say what he likes in a debate and the others, fearing a backlash from their supporters, have to squirm knowing that they have to be diplomatic and 'safe' with their answers. Put Farage on LBC radio against' James O'Brien, and he is shown up for the cretin he is (so much so that his assistant tried to step in and take him off air) as O'Brien doesn't have anything to lose/gain from picking him apart.

'They will attract unsavoury people' - couldn't agree more. There are normal, disaffected people that support UKIP, sure. They tend to snap out of it eventually. Those that blindly follow are to put it politely, 'unsavoury...'

Most British people do not want to be a part of the EU, but guess what? We are. Oh, and if you complain about it? You're a fascist/racist/uneducated thug/white van man/little Englander. - I don't know if 'most' are (or care) but I certainly know a lot of people first-hand that wish we were not part of the EU. If you complain about it and can present reasoned arguments? No, you won't get called those things. If you complain about it because you just don't like foreigners and now have an outlet to disguise it as contempt for the EU due to UKIP's openness about the subject, then yes, you are a fascist/racist/uneducated thug. It really doesn't need to be turned into a left/right/liberal/conservative issue, it's common sense. UKIP get called out for being a backward party because their ministers say backward things. Simples.

[video=youtube;-pyYoL9ngtE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pyYoL9ngtE[/video]
 
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

Do you think that there are any positives for the UK from immigration? And what do you think of Britons who benefit from freedom of movement buy going to live elsewhere in the EU?

There are massive benefits for the UK from immigration of a select group of people who bring to the table things we don't have in this country at this moment in time.

But for example, I live in Bradford. Bradford had mass immigration of a large number of poorly educated workers from some of the poorest regions of Pakistan. About 70,000-100,000. They were invited here by some of the mill owners to prop up their businesses as they fell down the toilet. The problem was that they sent most of their money back home to Pakistan. They continue to do so to this day.

The Pakistani community in Bradford has never fully integrated and send most of the money they make (which isn't a lot as they remain one of the poorest communities in the UK, with a large percentage below the poverty line) back to Pakistan. They marry their kids off to cousins from Pakistan as a 'leg-up', normally to poor relations who are then brought over here with nothing. They have mostly remained in the same areas of Bradford in which they arrived, don't regard themselves as British, don't speak English and contribute very little to the local economy. Infact, these areas of Bradford are some of the most deprived areas in the whole UK with mass socio-health issues, civil unrest and distrust.

You see many communities such as this in the UK, where a large influx of immigrants have remained in very poor, isolated communities that are not much better off than when they first arrived. Too many similar people have allowed to arrive.

In my job most of the people I investigate and convict are from these communities. Fraud is rife and linked to drug trafficking, organised gangs and the funding of foreign terrorist organisations.

You really need to do my job to see the massive amount of resource this country puts into the problems some of the past immigration policies have created.

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Without the increased birth rate from Immigrant families there won't be enough workers to pay for our pensions.

If you studied demographics, you will know that within a few generations, immigrants birth rates quickly conform to the national average. So this isn't a valid argument for immigration, particularly since those with larger birth-rates tend to very poor immigrants that actually put a strain on the local economies rather than contribute towards them.
 
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls


Ok NWND, reading your last post I can see that you have first-hand experience of the effects of immigration in your localised area. I don't have any first-hand knowledge or experience of the issues faced in Bradford other than my other half went to Uni there (she loved it ;) ) In your experience are members of the community paying taxes in their jobs or is it cash-in-hand? Obviously not talking about the ones that are crims committing fraud!
 
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

Immigration is not a 'massive' issue, nor are 'most British people against mass-imimigration' - simply not true.

Whilst I'm mostly on the immigration = good side of this debate, it is a massive issue to voters:
http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.ne...YG-Archives-Pol-Trackers-Issues(2)-130514.pdf

I don't think that those 52% who consider it up there with the economy in importance think it's important because they want immigration to increase.

There's been a very impressive (and depressing) propaganda campaign against immigration in this country for a long time now and it's working incredibly well. When I used to doorstep for the Conservatives they gave me part of Portsmouth South (apparently my non-public schoolness suited the area well). Immigration wasn't just the first or the most important issue people were asking about, it was pretty much the only issue.

Those opinions and my inability to not call racist people cvnts was the end of my political career before it got started, but it is a huge issue - especially in areas that don't have the experience/advantage of previous immigration that London has.
 
What a snidy, horrible load of *******s. Typical of the attitude most people have had enough of. We're tired of being sneared at, not listened to, dismissed. You should try a career in British politics. You have the right attitude for it, including a hideous loathing of the people you would wish to serve.

People aren't all that bright on the whole though - half of them are of less than average intelligence ;)

How many 'average' people would you trust to make important decisions in your life? Seriously, I'm all for democracy but the Green Party have an MP FFS - THE GREEN PARTY!. Ever go on Facebook? People I used to think were intelligent and educated actually 'Like' things that Russell Brand says.

There are some ****ing idiots out there - unfortunately their votes count the same as yours or mine.
 
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

If you studied demographics, you will know that within a few generations, immigrants birth rates quickly conform to the national average. So this isn't a valid argument for immigration, particularly since those with larger birth-rates tend to very poor immigrants that actually put a strain on the local economies rather than contribute towards them.

That makes the assumption that immigration stops after a few generations. Keep immigration going and you keep the birthrate up (at least until the government learns to ringfence annual pension contributions).

As for putting a strain on local economies, in my experience it's the indigenous population here (if there's anyone you can call that) which puts the biggest strain on public services.

The answer to the immigration 'problem' is just to forcibly emigrate all the lazy British ****ers who don't want to work, replace them with immigrants who do and the economy is fixed.
 
Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

That makes the assumption that immigration stops after a few generations. Keep immigration going and you keep the birthrate up (at least until the government learns to ringfence annual pension contributions).

As for putting a strain on local economies, in my experience it's the indigenous population here (if there's anyone you can call that) which puts the biggest strain on public services.

The answer to the immigration 'problem' is just to forcibly emigrate all the lazy British ****ers who don't want to work, replace them with immigrants who do and the economy is fixed.

The is a side issue that the pension age is far to low but no party UKIP included will do anything about that either.
 
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