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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

MartyFunkhouser said:
Absolutely which makes the basis and rewriting of said rape to form a religion and a convenient story even more problematic. Its been argued that it paved the way for thousands of years where women who were raped through the ages claimed "virginity"............lovely religion that
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From the perspective of a Christian that would make absolutely zero sense.

The perpetrator of this would be Joseph, who is little more than a footnote in scripture. I think he is only referenced 4 times in the Bible. Christian worship is directed towards Christ as G.od and there is great honour given to Mary particularly among Catholics. The Christian religion in its simplest form is about following Jesus, to adhere to his teachings and live as he did. Christians believes that Jesus was GHod taking on human form on earth, conceived via the immaculate conception of Mary. So not only would they not believe that a rape took place, they do not even believe that intercourse took place. You can scoff at that all you want but that is not relevant to the conversation. A true Christian believes this to be the case. Furthermore, the perpetrator of this would be Joseph, who is little more than a footnote in scripture. I think he is only referenced 4 times in the Bible.

Islam is its simplest form is about following the teachers of the prophet Muhammad as Allah's last messenger. Muhammed, who was married to a 9 year old, is the key fundamental figure in the teachings of the religion. Muslims are instructed to live as Muhammed did and model their character on him because he demonstrated how to live out Allah's guidance in every day life. So how you pray, how you work, who you interact with family......crucially in this case your relationship with women and your wives should all be modeled on Muhammed and that is seen as the best way to obey and honour Allah.
 
robp135 said:
From the perspective of a Christian that would make absolutely zero sense.

The perpetrator of this would be Joseph, who is little more than a footnote in scripture. I think he is only referenced 4 times in the Bible. Christian worship is directed towards Christ as G.od and there is great honour given to Mary particularly among Catholics. The Christian religion in its simplest form is about following Jesus, to adhere to his teachings and live as he did. Christians believes that Jesus was GHod taking on human form on earth, conceived via the immaculate conception of Mary. So not only would they not believe that a rape took place, they do not even believe that intercourse took place. You can scoff at that all you want but that is not relevant to the conversation. A true Christian believes this to be the case. Furthermore, the perpetrator of this would be Joseph, who is little more than a footnote in scripture. I think he is only referenced 4 times in the Bible.

Islam is its simplest form is about following the teachers of the prophet Muhammad as Allah's last messenger. Muhammed, who was married to a 9 year old, is the key fundamental figure in the teachings of the religion. Muslims are instructed to live as Muhammed did and model their character on him because he demonstrated how to live out Allah's guidance in every day life. So how you pray, how you work, who you interact with family......crucially in this case your relationship with women and your wives should all be modeled on Muhammed and that is seen as the best way to obey and honour Allah.
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no, Joseph was the good guy who supported his wife and cared for the child, GHod is the rapist, an immaculate conception is that days "I don't sweat", scientifically impossible, the fudger probably drugged her too
 
robp135 said:
The perpetrator of this would be Joseph, who is little more than a footnote in scripture. I think he is only referenced 4 times in the Bible. Christian worship is directed towards Christ as G.od and there is great honour given to Mary particularly among Catholics. The Christian religion in its simplest form is about following Jesus, to adhere to his teachings and live as he did. Christians believes that Jesus was GHod taking on human form on earth, conceived via the immaculate conception of Mary. So not only would they not believe that a rape took place, they do not even believe that intercourse took place. You can scoff at that all you want but that is not relevant to the conversation. A true Christian believes this to be the case. Furthermore, the perpetrator of this would be Joseph, who is little more than a footnote in scripture. I think he is only referenced 4 times in the Bible.
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Thats exactly my point, so thanks for making it again.

Christians believe, whats is in any normal life and without fantasy, a child, born to an underage woman, likely by rape......their belief in what reads like a cover story, is a convenience rather than the reality.

And I do scoff because I dont believe in sky fairies and I havent known a single person or proof of virgin birth

People can believe what they like, absolutely can and I am not here to offend anyone, but the story based on modern logic and what I know of walking this earth is open to ridicule.
 
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robp135 said:
That is absolutely not the case.
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Because you have edited that and cut the rest...............they don't believe he was a product of underage rape because of their "story".........the point is, if they are going with the Virgin Mary story, then its the case she was likely raped and most certainly underage.

The point is, no religion is really in any space to point fingers at the next given the basis of their beliefs and doing so is just covered in deep hypocrisy from all sides
 
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Baleforce said:
no, Joseph was the good guy who supported his wife and cared for the child, GHod is the rapist, an immaculate conception is that days "I don't sweat", scientifically impossible, the fudger probably drugged her too
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Comparing the role that Joseph plays in the Christian faith and beliefs to the role that Muhummad does with Islam would be like comparing the role that Luke McGee played in Tottenham Hotspur as a club this century to Daniel Levy.
 
Immaculate conception refers to the conception of Mary, not her conception of Jesus. It refers to Mary being free of sin from womb to motherhood to be a clean vessel to carry 'the son of GHod'. Not fully relevant to who got Mary up the duff but given there is no evidence of a GHod then it presumably was a man who did it. Just an assumption. Can't go beyond that in terms of consent or rape.

But if it wasn't Joseph then Jesus wasn't from the House of David and the whole prophecy thing collapses.

Muhammad was probably sleep deprived and hallucinating when up.in cave when hearing voices.
 
Lost Mango said:
Immaculate conception refers to the conception of Mary, not her conception of Jesus. It refers to Mary being free of sin from womb to motherhood to be a clean vessel to carry 'the son of GHod'. Not fully relevant to who got Mary up the duff but given there is no evidence of a GHod then it presumably was a man who did it. Just an assumption. Can't go beyond that in terms of consent or rape.

But if it wasn't Joseph then Jesus wasn't from the House of David and the whole prophecy thing collapses.

Muhammad was probably sleep deprived and hallucinating when up.in cave when hearing voices.
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Correct, IC and The Virgin Birth are two separate things

My reference is purely to the the belief that Jesus was conceived through the Holy Spirit without human father.
 
LutonSpurs said:
I condemn nonces indiscriminately unlike you, who only seems to care about one kind.
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Have you though ? Not once in this thread have you acknowledged the victims statements who themselves have said that their predators suggested Islam was behind their wrongdoing. All you have done is bring up other faiths to deflect
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
Because you have edited that and cut the rest...............they don't believe he was a product of underage rape because of their "story".........the point is, if they are going with the Virgin Mary story, then its the case she was likely raped and most certainly underage.

The point is, no religion is really in any space to point fingers at the next given the basis of their beliefs.
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Come on you are being disingenuous now.

Christians believe that the immaculate conception of Mary was an exception to the usual biological rules. It was not an ordinary human conception.

Christianity, whether you believe in it or not, has shaped Western society by influencing the core principals, laws, ethics, and social norms that we live by today. It’s universally viewed as prosperous and in such positive way that you have had over a billion people migrate from eastern Islamic countries to western counties shaped by Christianity, even when they are Muslim.

Besides a few mongs that are moving to Dubai, a westernised hub within an Islamic country, you do not see a mass migration of Christians or western people to Islamic countries. That may be because that religion instructs you to live your life by closley replicating a man that married a 9 year old.
 
robp135 said:
Come on you are being disingenuous now.

Christians believe that the immaculate conception of Mary was an exception to the usual biological rules. It was not an ordinary human conception.

Christianity, whether you believe in it or not, has shaped Western society by influencing the core principals, laws, ethics, and social norms that we live by today. It’s universally viewed as prosperous and in such positive way that you have had over a billion people migrate from eastern Islamic countries to western counties shaped by Christianity, even when they are Muslim.

Besides a few mongs that are moving to Dubai, a westernised hub within an Islamic country, you do not see a mass migration of Christians or western people to Islamic countries. That may be because that religion instructs you to live your life by closley replicating a man that married a 9 year old.
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Im absolutely not being disingenuous.

If there was someone who lived in the form of Mary and the story is that her child was Jesus and he was born to her a Virgin then im sorry mate every alarm in me screams cover up, just because thats positioned under the idea of religion and its been positioned for centuries to not be questioned isn't my fault.

Im not saying Christians believe that as you keep saying, im saying they prefer to believe the fantasy rather than the reality.

The good Christianity does and has done in forming society, some of which I agree btw, its a completely separate conversation to believing the basis of the story, conflating the two doesnt work in any argument
 
Lost Mango said:
Immaculate conception refers to the conception of Mary, not her conception of Jesus. It refers to Mary being free of sin from womb to motherhood to be a clean vessel to carry 'the son of GHod'. Not fully relevant to who got Mary up the duff but given there is no evidence of a GHod then it presumably was a man who did it. Just an assumption. Can't go beyond that in terms of consent or rape.

But if it wasn't Joseph then Jesus wasn't from the House of David and the whole prophecy thing collapses.

Muhammad was probably sleep deprived and hallucinating when up.in cave when hearing voices.
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For the sake of argument, if Mary had been raped, by Joseph or someone else, that still would not be what Christians beleive and it’s not what it taught by the Church or in scripture. Nor are Christians being instructed to follow the perpetrator of that crime. In this case it would be one of the victims. So that would not influence Christians to beleive that they are able to rape underage women.

The prophet Muhammad had a 9 year old wife who was promised to him when she was 6 years old. Muslims are instructed to follow how he lived and live as he did the best they can. Il let you conclude the rest.
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
Im absolutely not being disingenuous.

If there was someone who lived in the form of Mary and the story is that her child was Jesus and he was born to her a Virgin then im sorry mate every alarm in me screams cover up, just because thats positioned under the idea of religion and its been positioned for centuries to not be questioned isn't my fault.

The good Christianity does and has done in forming society is a completely separate conversation to believing the basis of the story, conflating the two doesnt work in any argument
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That’s your own belief and you have every right to question it. But it is categorically not what Christians believe.
 
Baleforce said:
no, Joseph was the good guy who supported his wife and cared for the child, GHod is the rapist, an immaculate conception is that days "I don't sweat", scientifically impossible, the fudger probably drugged her too
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Wait! GHod gave Mary Rohypnol? Sneaky. Probably unnecessary too, as he was omnipotent. Maybe he was a minger.

(For some reason, I have a mental image of Sam Rockwell in Hitchhiker's as GHod)
 
robp135 said:
Come on you are being disingenuous now.

Christians believe that the immaculate conception of Mary was an exception to the usual biological rules. It was not an ordinary human conception.

Christianity, whether you believe in it or not, has shaped Western society by influencing the core principals, laws, ethics, and social norms that we live by today. It’s universally viewed as prosperous and in such positive way that you have had over a billion people migrate from eastern Islamic countries to western counties shaped by Christianity, even when they are Muslim.

Besides a few mongs that are moving to Dubai, a westernised hub within an Islamic country, you do not see a mass migration of Christians or western people to Islamic countries. That may be because that religion instructs you to live your life by closley replicating a man that married a 9 year old.
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Park that brick mate.
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
I know they dont, I have never said they do, im saying they prefer to believe the story/lie than what the reality of the story screams....

Thats complicity
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I get that it’s hard to understand as a non beliver and someone that resents Christianity, which I actually think is understandable for you. But your coming at this too much from that position and concluding a thought process would be held on a large scale when that is just not the case.

For the most part you have two types of Christians and I can talk to this as I had been both at points in my life.

Those who are absolute believers, in which case they hold true belief in the immaculate conception,

Then those who are just culturally Christian and it plays no major role in their daily life outside of the wider influences. In which case they either put so little thought into how Mary got pregnant it won’t even cross their mind she may have been raped, let alone use it to justify committing that crime themselves
 
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