Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[LutonSpurs]

That migration is essential for the economy is the biggest myth of the modern era. Current population growth, largely driven by immigration, is pretty much the root cause of every single major domestic problem this country faces.

This is stuff you have typed and not based on actual economics of the now.

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

Plenty of engagement thanks...read the last couple of pages.

Your definitive ....'immigrants are on the hook for ALL our problems' post is more telling.

I didn't say that.

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

On a set agreement with said country.....

Or it's not happening....which it's not....which is the problem

Its only not happening because of continued court challenges not because of the countries of origin. A country cannot actually reject one of its own citizens from the country.

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

This is stuff you have typed and not based on actual economics of the now.

It is based on the economics of the now. Its based on a variety of factors including (just purely based on economics) a larger and larger population (requiring more and more public spending) while the population actually providing the majority of public revenue is actually getting smaller and smaller. Halting the current rate of population growth will make economic policy far easier straight off the bat. And part of that needs to be net migration.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

How did it harm our chances? Because we are now outside of EU relationships?.
I don't think there's anything sophisticated about it...rolling the dice on people's lives for
Looking at Small boats...Small boats look to contribute between 25k and 40k of arrivals (since Brexit) so approx 6-9% of net migration. That's NET.
So if we sunk all boats on entering our waters that's the size of dent we would put in 'the problem'.

The Dublin Agreement allowed for some asylum seekers to be returned or sent to other EU countries based on certain criteria although I don’t think it was an often-used option. But what little it offered is off the menu since Brexit.
Plus of course previous Tory governments had such a hostile relationship with France that very little could be achieved. We are seeing that change now. France has changed its maritime laws to allow police/coastguards to intervene when boats are already offshore. We have the 1 for 1 pilot scheme - let’s see how that pans out. We at least appear to have a constructive dialogue ongoing. Whether it will be enough remains to be seen but at least we seem to have adults in the room.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

Its only not happening because of continued court challenges not because of the countries of origin. A country cannot actually reject one of its own citizens from the country.

Tell that to Shamima Begum.

 

[Grays_1890]

The Dublin Agreement allowed for some asylum seekers to be returned or sent to other EU countries based on certain criteria although I don’t think it was an often-used option. But what little it offered is off the menu since Brexit.
Plus of course previous Tory governments had such a hostile relationship with France that very little could be achieved. We are seeing that change now. France has changed its maritime laws to allow police/coastguards to intervene when boats are already offshore. We have the 1 for 1 pilot scheme - let’s see how that pans out. We at least appear to have a constructive dialogue ongoing. Whether it will be enough remains to be seen but at least we seem to have adults in the room.

The stats have gone through the rood since Brexit so its either a coincidence or its played a part in the trend. I don't think it can be as easily ignored as part of the problem as some would like to make it, without it being the sole reason either

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

Tell that to Shamima Begum.

Well she's a Bangladeshi citizen now

 

[Rorschach]

The stats have gone through the rood since Brexit so its either a coincidence or its played a part in the trend. I don't think it can be as easily ignored as part of the problem as some would like to make it, without it being the sole reason either

One factor, as I understand it, is that pre-brexit EU nationals would come and go, which gave a lower overall net figure, but most immigrants now are from further afield and the outflow is smaller. Non-EU immigration is the primary driver now, with more EU nationals returning to the EU than coming in. Brexit has certainly played a part.

The numbers for '24 are down considerably on the previous year, I believe, but immigration talk is wall-to-wall. That's because this is what they want people talking about rather than the fact that the system is working exactly as designed, and is squeezing the life out of everyone bar a few clams, a high percentage of whom are suspiciously called Crispin.

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

The stats have gone through the rood since Brexit so its either a coincidence or its played a part in the trend. I don't think it can be as easily ignored as part of the problem as some would like to make it, without it being the sole reason either

Nowt to do with Brexit. Its simply a growing trend in people smuggling as it is by far the easiest bang for buck for international criminals - less risky than drugs and weapons smuggling, carrying less jail time and people are willing to pay more.

The growing trend in illegal arrivals by boat in the UK has actually been exceeded by illegal arrivals by boat in Spain, Greece, Italy and Turkey. All of whom actually have a bigger and more rapidly growing problem than we have.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

Well she's a Bangladeshi citizen now

Even Jacob Rees-Mogg disagreed with her British Citizenship being revoked.

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

Even Jacob Rees-Mogg disagreed with her British Citizenship being revoked.

As do I. She's a product of Britain. She's our problem and we need to deal with her. Although i also recognise the sentiment and strong feelings behind the decision also.

 

[johnola]

You soppy sods no wonder we are exploited so mercilessly.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I didn't say that.

I've re-read your post.

I've paraphrased...but am standing by it.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

It is based on the economics of the now. Its based on a variety of factors including (just purely based on economics) a larger and larger population (requiring more and more public spending) while the population actually providing the majority of public revenue is actually getting smaller and smaller. Halting the current rate of population growth will make economic policy far easier straight off the bat. And part of that needs to be net migration.

We've put on approx 5m in population growth in the last 10 years. 10m since 2000.
Unemployment rates have (except for a period around 2008 financial crisis) sat in a range of 3.5-5.5%.
So I'm not detecting a freeloading influx but people that work and contribute.
This is a typical scenario in western economies (and even eg south east Asian economies) of economic migrant workers facilitating all that goes on above them in the food chain.

When life goes a 'bit brick' for those further (farther??) up the food chain, they want answers?. The government gave them answers. Not the answer 'we didn't control immigration' or 'we were tinkle poor at planning for population growth' but immigrants are the problem. Classic bogeyman playbook, or divide the population so they're looking at each other and not us. They even got given the key to the EU gate to add to the key for the RotW gate, for full control of borders (excluding small boats), and what have they done with it? It's almost like it wasn't in the Tories interests as the immigrant story was their shield (sacrificed the EU open market for it as well).

For sure the figures quoted at the top can be drilled down into, and other considerations that need to be taken into account?

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

We've put on approx 5m in population growth in the last 10 years. 10m since 2000.
Unemployment rates have (except for a period around 2008 financial crisis) sat in a range of 3.5-5.5%.
So I'm not detecting a freeloading influx but people that work and contribute.
This is a typical scenario in western economies (and even eg south east Asian economies) of economic migrant workers facilitating all that goes on above them in the food chain.

When life goes a 'bit brick' for those further (farther??) up the food chain, they want answers?. The government gave them answers. Not the answer 'we didn't control immigration' or 'we were tinkle poor at planning for population growth' but immigrants are the problem. Classic bogeyman playbook, or divide the population so they're looking at each other and not us. They even got given the key to the EU gate to add to the key for the RotW gate, for full control of borders (excluding small boats), and what have they done with it? It's almost like it wasn't in the Tories interests as the immigrant story was their shield (sacrificed the EU open market for it as well).

For sure the figures quoted at the top can be drilled down into, and other considerations that need to be taken into account?

Its not about employment rates or "net contribution" its about pressure on housing, infrastructure, the sewer systems, NHS, schools, everything basically. Its a never ending cycle of "holy sh*t theres loads more people we need to service them, let's get loads more people in to do that. And these people are 90% low paid and minimum wage no longer attracts income tax. This idea of "net contribution" is overly simplistic. Its bulls*it. We have rising inequality and rising poverty. We are partly f*cking importing it. As I've said, the bare facts are that the tax take now is more and more reliant on a smaller and smaller pool of the population. And the current economic structure is unsustainable by any analysis. There WILL be economic collapse if we continue on our current trajectory. The OBR said as much in their last report.

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

I've re-read your post.

I've paraphrased...but am standing by it.

Population growth is the root cause of pretty much every major domestic issue this country faces. Its an indisputable fact.

Its also the no. 1 blight on the planet as a whole. We are growing like a cancer and we will kill our host soon enough.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

And these people are 90% low paid and minimum wage no longer attracts income tax.

So 90% are on minimum wage and doing less than 20 hours a week?

Its not about employment rates or "net contribution" its about pressure on housing, infrastructure, the sewer systems, NHS, schools, everything basically. Its a never ending cycle of "holy sh*t theres loads more people we need to service them, let's get loads more people in to do that

As I say, a failure in government foresight, planning and control.

This idea of "net contribution" is overly simplistic. Its bulls*it. We have rising inequality and rising poverty. We are partly f*cking importing it. As I've said, the bare facts are that the tax take now is more and more reliant on a smaller and smaller pool of the population. And the current economic structure is unsustainable by any analysis. There WILL be economic collapse if we continue on our current trajectory. The OBR said as much in their last report.

The majority of that is the result of government policy (driven by their paymasters).

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

So 90% are on minimum wage and doing less than 20 hours a week?


As I say, a failure in government foresight, planning and control.

The majority of that is the result of government policy (driven by their paymasters).

You're right. It is a failure of government policy. In arresting a population growth that began under Blair (a deliberate policy of mass immigration that Blair now A) admits to and B) admits was a catastrophic mistake - look it up. The other thing that Blair did was completely transform Westminster and the civil service and British culture to effectively accept this. To the point where people blindly claim this is "essential" to our survival while also acknowledging it is unsustainable. The BMA are partly striking because there are too few training positions to accommodate those graduating with medical degrees. Yet the narrative still remains that we need to import foreign doctors to sustain the NHS.

This idea that we need just "more planning" to cope with the current levels of population growth doesn't change the stone cold undeniable fact that there isnt an end game at some point in the future that doesnt end with every bit of countryside in this island being concreted over if we do not stop this madness. Even you cannot deny that.

At current levels of net migration the "better planning" you talk of involves building a city the size of Liverpool every year. If you want to sustain that for the foreseeable; I'm sorry
You've lost your mind.

 

[LutonSpurs]

Tell that to Shamima Begum.

Perfect.