Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[Kompakted]

Time for Starmer's government to put a bad start and ideology behind them and recognise that there is a small window of opportunity brought about by Trump's victory, to become the go-to trade and commerce route between Europe and America for the next half a decade at least:

UK can strike Trump trade deal and rebuild EU relations, says top economist | International trade | The Guardian

Keir Starmer can show UK is ‘open for business’, says former Bank of England chief economist Andy Haldane

amp.theguardian.com

 

[spurspinter1]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1856010659571614113

This is so very good, I imagine I would be listed as a lefty apologist but I'm happy to call out Lammy for this specifically, it's all so gross and slimy. He can describe it as old news and do the standard "What's important is...." prevarication, what's happened to change his views on Trump? It's definitely not his words / actions so it's plain to see.

I don't buy in to the "they're all as bad as each other" line, that's just absolving culpability especially if you were responsible for Boris fudging Johnson being in charge of anything , nevermind an actual country but there are similarities.

It's easy to talk brick on the sidelines but then it's different when you're in charge...

 

[Kompakted]

This is so very good, I imagine I would be listed as a lefty apologist but I'm happy to call out Lammy for this specifically, it's all so gross and slimy. He can describe it as old news and do the standard "What's important is...." prevarication, what's happened to change his views on Trump? It's definitely not his words / actions so it's plain to see.

I don't buy in to the "they're all as bad as each other" line, that's just absolving culpability especially if you were responsible for Boris fudging Johnson being in charge of anything , nevermind an actual country but there are similarities.

It's easy to talk brick on the sidelines but then it's different when you're in charge...

You see what Lammy said about all his past comments was that what he said when he was a backbench MP has no bearing on him when he's holding an actual public office. What that says to me is that Lammy has no real feeling for how our political system works in this country: the elected office he holds is as an MP. His government role is appointed and not elected. The government are formed by Starmer based on a mandate provided to him by the King (not the British public) based on having the confidence of the majority of the house. His real office of public service is as an MP and it is as an MP he provides the mandate to Starmer to obtain the mandate from the King to govern on his behalf - therefore the duty to the public to act with responsibility in office always came from his role as MP. Far too many MPs feel that they can gob off nonsense and act how they like because they're only backbench MPs when in reality it is the role of the MP that holds the real power and mandate in Paliament. This was confirmed in the recent Gina Miller court cases. So many MPs hold their office and the public in contempt.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Yeah i wish Lammy would have some integrity and call him the Mungo Mussolini again. At least Louise Hague held firm about P&O being clams

 

[SkipRat]

This is so very good, I imagine I would be listed as a lefty apologist but I'm happy to call out Lammy for this specifically, it's all so gross and slimy. He can describe it as old news and do the standard "What's important is...." prevarication, what's happened to change his views on Trump? It's definitely not his words / actions so it's plain to see.

I don't buy in to the "they're all as bad as each other" line, that's just absolving culpability especially if you were responsible for Boris fudging Johnson being in charge of anything , nevermind an actual country but there are similarities.

It's easy to talk brick on the sidelines but then it's different when you're in charge...

Whilst i agree with most of that.

Boris got into power because every other party refused to respect the result of EU ref.

They basically handed the tories potentially 17 million votes.

Only people to blame for Boris are pro-remain parties and their supporters who made themselves completely unelectable.

 

[Kompakted]

Whilst i agree with most of that.

Boris got into power because every other party refused to respect the result of EU ref.

They basically handed the tories potentially 17 million votes.

Only people to blame for Boris are pro-remain parties and their supporters who made themselves completely unelectable.

There was a lot of anger over Brexit but I also think Boris Johnsin is simply very popular. People like him and he's a rare politician whose popularity is wider than his party's traditional base. He won in labour areas in London prior to Brexit and he won in labour areas in the GE post Brexit referendum. The elephant in the room for the Tory MPs that booted him out is that IMO a lot of them would still be MPs now going into a second term of Johnson government had they not.

 

[SkipRat]

There was a lot of anger over Brexit but I also think Boris Johnsin is simply very popular. People like him and he's a rare politician whose popularity is wider than his party's traditional base. He won in labour areas in London prior to Brexit and he won in labour areas in the GE post Brexit referendum. The elephant in the room for the Tory MPs that booted him out is that IMO a lot of them would still be MPs now going into a second term of Johnson government had they not.

Well his campaign was just the words.

Get brexit done. It really was a one sided battle.

And the Tories shot themselves in the foot, and out was the pro-remain Tories that kicked it all off. They really are a bunch of vile back stabbing vermin.

They will do the same to Kemi, and she needs to cleanse the party tbh. Kemi will win the next election, if the rest of the party don't feck it up.

 

[Kompakted]

Well his campaign was just the words.

Get brexit done. It really was a one sided battle.

And the Tories shot themselves in the foot, and out was the pro-remain Tories that kicked it all off. They really are a bunch of vile back stabbing vermin.

They will do the same to Kemi, and she needs to cleanse the party tbh. Kemi will win the next election, if the rest of the party don't feck it up.

Don't make the mistake that "get brexit done" appealed purely to leavers though. It also appealed to soft remainers, I.e. those that had voted remain but were sick of the whole brexit debate and just wanted it over with. My wife was a case in point, I remember her shouting at the TV in the leaders debate between Corbyn and Johnson when Corbyn started waffling on about a second referendum: "for GHod's sake, we voted leave so leave, just get it over with!" She voted to remain and still thinks we should have remained.

 

[SkipRat]

Don't make the mistake that "get brexit done" appealed purely to leavers though. It also appealed to soft remainers, I.e. those that had voted remain but were sick of the whole brexit debate and just wanted it over with. My wife was a case in point, I remember her shouting at the TV in the leaders debate between Corbyn and Johnson when Corbyn started waffling on about a second referendum: "for GHod's sake, we voted leave so leave, just get it over with!" She voted to remain and still thinks we should have remained.

Of course, without a shadow of a doubt.

And many remainers accepted the result like adults

If labour had accepted the result and pushed their version of the UK outside the EU...

They might have won, or at leady the tory vote might not have been so devastating.

 

[Kompakted]

Of course, without a shadow of a doubt.

And many remainers accepted the result like adults

If labour had accepted the result and pushed their version of the UK outside the EU...

They might have won, or at lazy the tory vote might not have been so devastating.

Corbyn was always a leaver really. That's what was so cringeworthy about it. He was telling the public he'd put a 2nd ref in the manifesto because Labour members had voted for it to go in, but he wasn't going to campaign for remain he was going to stay neutral. Truth is there are plenty of old debating videos of Corbyn laying into the EU. Old left Labour hate the EU and everything it stands for. Thatcher loved the original common market concept- how the tables turned eh?

 

[SkipRat]

Corbyn was always a leaver really. That's what was so cringeworthy about it. He was telling the public he'd put a 2nd ref in the manifesto because Labour members had voted for it to go in, but he wasn't going to campaign for remain he was going to stay neutral. Truth is there are plenty of old debating videos of Corbyn laying into the EU. Old left Labour hate the EU and everything it stands for. Thatcher loved the original common market concept- how the tables turned eh?

Of course, Corbyn should have stuck by his guns, and it was Keir Starmer that was stabbing him in the back.

About a month before the first election, Labour were getting beat, until Corbyn came out with no 2nd ref announcement, resulting in a hung parliament.

Corbyn, needed hands free of the EU to implement the policies he wanted for a fairer world, better free trade deals etc etc.

The best way to stop mass migration, is to make the rest of the world not so shyte to live in. I also loved the idea of a national Bank. No international investment trading, but just investing in local business to generate profit, to reinvest in local business.

Similar to the bank of North Dakota, which was the only bank in the US to make a profit during the 2008 crash, to the sum of $3 billion, as it just invested in local businesses.

It was a pro-remain that had screwed this country, with 4 years of doing everything they could do undo the result and test and sabatage it every opportunity, like Hilary Bens no deal bill, that prevented the UK from walking away from a bad deal... Allowing the EU to pay silly buggers with the negocaiting power... Then when Boris got into power, rushing through a deal, because parliament spent the previous 4 years throwing teddies out the pram, because the result didn't go their way.

Anyone who respected the result, was guarenteed to get results.

Boris's was more predictable the the recent Trump wins.

 

[thfcsteff]

This is worth an hour of your time...Heather Cox Richardson an exceptional political historian, she dissects the election result holistically and with clarity.

I read her substack essay.
Will listen to this soon.
Yes, disinformation is a massive part, but in the US, I think the simple fact is that more people simply don't care about things beyond their own periphery.
Add that to the blowback against perceived 'anti white maleness' (I believe this has been weaponised and over inflated as much as 'wokeism' has been) throw in who manipulates social media and alt outlets better and there you have it.

 

[Mikey10]

There was a lot of anger over Brexit but I also think Boris Johnsin is simply very popular. People like him and he's a rare politician whose popularity is wider than his party's traditional base. He won in labour areas in London prior to Brexit and he won in labour areas in the GE post Brexit referendum. The elephant in the room for the Tory MPs that booted him out is that IMO a lot of them would still be MPs now going into a second term of Johnson government had they not.

Away from the pages of The Mail and The Telegraph, I think it would be hard to find a more widely hated and derided figure than Boris Johnson. I live in a very Tory area of the country and he is universally detested.

 

[Batspur]

Away from the pages of The Mail and The Telegraph, I think it would be hard to find a more widely hated and derided figure than Boris Johnson. I live in a very Tory area of the country and he is universally detested.

I still think he would win an election as Tory leader. He knows it and the party knows it.

People are stupid. That brick eating grin would get it in again. I guarantee it.

If he has the chance....Tory MPs despise him it's true. But never underestimate their yearn for power.

 

[Kompakted]

Away from the pages of The Mail and The Telegraph, I think it would be hard to find a more widely hated and derided figure than Boris Johnson. I live in a very Tory area of the country and he is universally detested.

Basically with Johnson, it's like Trump. You either like him or you hate him. But he isn't "universally detested". Quite the opposite. And he is popular with traditional working class Labour-leaning voters, not just Mail and Telegraph readers. He's won every election or referendum he's ever contested. You don't have a record like that while being detested "universally".

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Basically with Johnson, it's like Trump. You either like him or you hate him. But he isn't "universally detested". Quite the opposite. And he is popular with traditional working class Labour-leaning voters, not just Mail and Telegraph readers. He's won every election or referendum he's ever contested. You don't have a record like that while being detested "universally".

I think Boris always had a deep desire to be PM and tbh the timing of when it actually did happen was pretty unlucky from his pov. To be the chosen one to lead us through a referendum decision (not called by him) that split the country in half...and then deal with a once in 100 year pandemic is a workload not desired by anyone.
And from the public's pov, Boris isn't the person you'd choose to oversee those events if given the choice in the first place.
Fwiw he would have been a pretty decent 'good times' PM... talking us up, espousing our qualities etc.
But generally his best use is on Have I Got News For You.

 

[Kompakted]

I think Boris always had a deep desire to be PM and tbh the timing of when it actually did happen was pretty unlucky from his pov. To be the chosen one to lead us through a referendum decision (not called by him) that split the country in half...and then deal with a once in 100 year pandemic is a workload not desired by anyone.
And from the public's pov, Boris isn't the person you'd choose to oversee those events if given the choice in the first place.
Fwiw he would have been a pretty decent 'good times' PM... talking us up, espousing our qualities etc.
But generally his best use is on Have I Got News For You.

I mean I think the referendum decision was his window of opportunity to lead the Tory party and become PM. There were many in the Tory party that either disliked Boris or liked him but as per your view would have reservations about him being in charge. In the chaos following Cameron's surprise resignation and May's botched General Election in 2017 and subsequent resignation, the Tories found themselves in a hole and he was the only candidate that pretty much guaranteed a way out of it. So they all held their nose and went for it.

I imagine Johnson himself would say he wasn't the man for Covid. And you got that with the whole Cummings stuff, the Hanrooster stuff and the partygate stuff. Yes, in hindsight the whole party gate stuff seems pretty ridiculous now, but while giving someone a criminal penalty notice for having some cake shoved infront of you may seem OTT, it was ultimately what his government had asked people to do themselves that caused the anger - it's that lack of discipline with Boris that wasn't desirable in Covid. He should have turned around to Carrie and whoever else surprised him and said: "appreciate the sentiment but we can't do this so pack everything up and let's get on with things."

 

[Gutter Boy]

I think Boris always had a deep desire to be PM and tbh the timing of when it actually did happen was pretty unlucky from his pov. To be the chosen one to lead us through a referendum decision (not called by him) that split the country in half...and then deal with a once in 100 year pandemic is a workload not desired by anyone.
And from the public's pov, Boris isn't the person you'd choose to oversee those events if given the choice in the first place.
Fwiw he would have been a pretty decent 'good times' PM... talking us up, espousing our qualities etc.
But generally his best use is on Have I Got News For You.

I think he actually did a decent job of Brexit. It got a bit messy, but we got the right outcome (pretty full sovenenity and limited economic pay off).

Covid management was a real brick show though. I still remember the ridiculousness of the tier system when i could go left out of my house (into south yorkshire) but not right (into derbyshire), so i had to break the law everyday to get to my parked car.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Bo Bo liked the idea of being PM much more than the reality, simply because he was lazy piece of brick.

 

[Batspur]

The fact that he's a habitual liar and a spineless clam also did for him too.